Alcohol and teenagers what would you/do you do?

[briggsy's girl]

i mentioned in another thread recently, and i think it applies here - our schools are so focussed on academic learning, there doesn't seem to be any focus on LIFE education. i think it could be extremely beneficial for schools to have factual (non-emotive) education on so many topics that are taboo at the moment. alcohol, social drinking, binge drinking, FAS, alcoholism. there is a very brief touch on sex education, but other issues are ignored or passed over. i also think breastfeeding etc could be normalised for future generations if it was discussed openly in schools (which is where i originally posted this thought)

i agree schools have a responsibility for academic learning, but i think society needs that focus shifted. lets face it, some kids simply won't listen to their parents or they won't care. perhaps if it were discussed (not lectured on what they can and can't do - opening a genuine discussion about the impacts etc) it MIGHT have more of an impact. some of the brightest teens (academically) are also some of the worst binge drinkers.... just my thoughts lol


i *think*, at this point, that normalising responsible drinking isn't necessarily a bad thing. if it teaches your children responsible behaviours... i dunno.

discussions like this (and what you do with your own family) will very much come from your own upbringing your own headspace at the time. it's clear from here that we all have different thoughts and motivations to educate our chldren in a particular way. what works in one family dynamic isn't going to work in another. i will admit we have a bar in our home - it's fully stocked, and i could walk in now and make pretty much any ****tail i could think of (provided we have the mixer lol) - personally, for US, it feels like it would be hypocritical to hold a line of zero tolerance when we obviously don't mind a drink. hence my thoughts on responsible and safe drinking being how we will approach the alcohol issue. in the same way as this will work for us, a family in which neither family every drinks would have a very different approach - and that's fine - each family will find their own comfort zone on this. i guess as long as the education doesn't include binge drinking or reliance as being ok, then we'll all find our feet

[Inanna]

What a fabulous post BG. I feel like I've been quite misunderstood by Lu - I don't have zero tolerance & I dom't quite know what it is I think exactly. I agree completely that we have to have education in our schools & as MG said education about what responsible drinking is.

This has crossed over to my rambling ponderings of what we are modelling in our society (taking the people out of it is exactly right actually!).

So I am speaking about two different topics. I also support your belief BG that we discuss this ad infinitum in our peer groups, schools, parks and homes so that we understand and educate ourselves. It would be arrogant of me or anyone else I think to believe they have the answers (beaing the mother of a teenage daughter is a very quick reality check if there is even the slightest belief of having the answers! )

Alcohol can be poison to an addictive personality, to a child/adult with ADHD/ASD, mental illness etc. So even in a family where it's "Normal" (which is most of our families) there are still extra things to consider...

I appreciate this discussion & all the differing angles that have been offered - it still has me questioning seriously for probably the first time in my life how ingrained alcohol is in our culture...

[diannescruffy]

At our primary school we have a Life Ed Van that comes in once a year. The kids enjoy it so much. They learn about drugs, alcohol and the health of their bodies.

Regards,
Dianne

[Inanna]

We do too Dianne and it's great. Like BG though I think lifeskills need to be taught a little more. Each individual school usually does different stuff. One thing our school does is the kids go & work with the homeless for 2 days in Brisbane. Our school collects non perishable food and the kids (older ones) help hand out the food, chat to the homeless and learn. THEN they get taught about how some of those people got there. So alcohol, drugs, abuse etc are discussed. Parenthelpline come and talk as do relationships australia and family planning. One of the strengths of our school is the teaching about communication that is healthy and non violent & an ethos of hearing and listening to children. Raised voices are not okay from teachers or kids (in anger). So they do learn this.

However, I think it should be a daily process in high school and at my daughters high school it just is not. Drugs are rife but it's the "naughty kids"... Actually it's not the naughty kids it's just the ones that get caught. Sex, smoking, drinking are all "naughty stuff" rather than how do we deal with it.

I find it interesting the number of parents who tut tut about what "some kids" get up to. Yet I know full well it's just that the parents don't yet know that J is climbing out the window to bonk A in the park!

It's about education, about gentle discipline not screaming ones toogoolawahs off at the drop of a hat (or pants)..

I had a kid run to my house a few weeks ago (uep that's working considering my own daughter ran from here... work that one out. ) I of course phoned the parent, had a cuddle, a cup of tea and a chat. The parent was kind, understanding and gentle to his child who just wanted a woman to tell about her first sexual experience. What do you do? Do you yell and scream and say oh dear. Well I didn't know what to do. So I listened and just reflected it back. This little girl just wanted to feel grown up, sex didn't help of course... She probably will be celebate for years to come now I am guessing.... Poor honey. But our kids will do stuff it's how we deal with the stuff that matters.

[briggsy's girl]

At our primary school we have a Life Ed Van that comes in once a year. The kids enjoy it so much. They learn about drugs, alcohol and the health of their bodies.

i think they need an older version of this too. targetting early teens and then the 15/16 year olds with age-appropriate info
primary school "fun" wont translate to more adult-like responsibility. a lot will be forgotten from primary school to later high school

[diannescruffy]

Agreed, it's a pity that it's not carried through to the high schools.

Regards,
Dianne

[littlebear]

When DS starts showing an interest in alcohol, the plan is not to forbid it. I think if a teenager wants to try alcohol, there's not much you can do to stop it so by letting them do it in a controlled environment you can at least reinforce the message to drink responsibly.

My parents would not let me drink in the house at all, even when I was 18 and I never really understood the concept. I could go out anywhere (even on the streets) and drink, but had to find my own way home, and that never really seemed safe to me. It actually seemed kind of stupid, lol. I want to let DS drink in the house so I can monitor what, who he's with and how much, and most of all I'll know he's safe. Same with parties, I'd much rather have them at my house because either way, I'm not going to sleep but if it's under my roof, i'll know he's safe, instead of lying awake wondering.

[MummaSue]

I plan to let her have little sips when I feel it's appropriate, DH feels the same. I want there to be no surprises for her.

I was allowed to drink the odd beer/wine from around 13-14 years old. I really appreciated that because when it came to going to parties and stuff like that when I was 15-16, alcohol wasn't a huge deal for me. I still drank some but didn't binge like some of my friends did.

I went to France on a student exchange for a month when I was 14. At the time (not sure if there is now) there was no legal limit for alcohol (or I think it was ridiculously low like 12 or something) and I had wine EVERY night with my exchange family with dinner. I actually got drunk for the first time there on 2 glasses of red wine. None of the french kids ever went binge drinking and thought it weird that we all wanted to go to the wine bars and drink wine. They just didn't do it because it flowed freely at home.

I guess I want to be the one to educate my children on alcohol. But I suppose I'll just have to wait and see what kind of teenager missy moo turns out to be and do the best job I can in the meantime!

Sue x

[krysalyss]

I haven't had time to read everyone's view but wanted to add mine.
I firmly believe that kids will learn so much more from what we do with alcohol then what our 'rules' are. If you need a wine to unwind then they learn that alcohol can relax you and can be a crutch. If they see that you need to have alcohol to have fun at family functions then that is what they will learn. If they learn that an adult can have one wine with dinner without effects or a need for more then that is also what they will learn. So I think responsible alcohol in front of kids is so important, remembering the lessons they actually take away aren't the ones we tell them but the ones we show them.

[Bathsheba]

I think that's pretty spot-on Krys

ETA: when I posted earlier that Drinkers beget Drinkers I needed to add that that was "generally speaking". I can also think of lots of exceptions. I lived with an alcoholic stepfather for 5 years. The worst "home life" years of my life. But I learned from it. Didn't mean I followed his lead... but it influenced my perception of alcohol. I also agree that it is poison to people with addictive predispositions... and that would quite a tricky thing to deal with. You would have to have a talk with your child from quite an early age so that they know that some people just should not drink. DH has had at least two alcoholics on his side of the family... I will be keeping my radar on.

[briggsy's girl]

i know both DH and I come from families with addictive personalities, so it is something we are aware of already. i know that i form addictions to certain things (usually computer games - when i start a hidden object game i HAVE to play it through to the end etc) so i know it is there for me to have that happen - but i guess that is something that is important - i KNOW that. i can recognise in myself that i have that tendancy and i am able to self monitor it. i know i've been through periods where a drink after work has become habit, and when there wasn't one there for me one night, i really missed it - so i made a conscious effort not to drink - i don't think i had another drink for ummmm 4 months and then i made sure it wasn't out of habit kwim?

[chody47]

To be honest, I don't know what we will do. I didn't have a sip of alcohol until I was 18. Not because I wasn't allowed (I actually never asked) but because I didn't want to. I went to parties and saw some of my friends acting silly after drinking and decided I didn't want to do it. That being said, when I did start drinking (when I was about 18.5 I hit it pretty hard as I was living away from home on campus at uni which had a fairly 'fun, drinking atmosphere'. When I say hard it's not like I was drinking every day but when we did go out to drink it was to get drunk.
DH on the other hand started going to parties and drinking from about 16 years of age. I don't think his parents knew. He also did the whole young adult 'lets go out to get drunk thing'.
My sister has been drinking socially since she was about 16ish. My parents knew about it and would let her take a couple of pre-mixed drinks to parties but not enough to get smashed or anything. TBH I think that if my child wanted to have a couple of drinks and were at about the 16 mark I might do the same. It saves them hiding it. I know it might not be the most responsible thing as a parent but if they really want to drink (like with other things) they will do it anyway.

[Mother Goose]

Dianne you might already know this but at major tertiary hospitals there are often groups for children of alcoholic families to have education.

YSAS (Youth Substance Abuse Service) is also a great avenue for young people (up to the age of 25). They do brilliant work with young people.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Well, I drink because I like the taste. I also like the taste of non-alcoholic drinks and buy those. I don't buy wine on alcohol basis, I just look for the pinot. I have loads of fun without alcohol - and no fun without alcohol. (DH knows how much I hate parties with the in-laws so I either drive and stay sober or drink enough so that I can find some measure of happiness... but now I have DS, I'm on driving duty all the time!) If I'm seeking happiness, I go for hot chocolate over alcohol. Chocolate is also a happiness drug, but not criticised as much as alcohol despite it coming with medical problems.

FWIW, I have a cough medicine for DS that my mum bought over the counter. Ingredients include paracetamol, choloroform and ethanol. He had been taking that with calpol (paracetamol). The small paracetamol overdose is FAR worse for his liver than a sip of alcohol will ever be. We have to be careful with all drugs, not just alcohol. Because it's not prescription doesn't mean it's OK.

[Lulu]

Been away for a few days (ach no net!).

Just wanted to add that DD's school had a fantastic drug and alcohol program - non emotive, just the facts jack kind of thing. It ended with a Parents night, and the kids did presentations etc. The lady who ran it was an emergency room nurse and told me she changed her mind completely about letting her kids drink even in her own home until they were 18.

And guess what? Only about 10 other parents were there......pity.

[diannescruffy]

Lulu, that sounds like an excellent program, real shame not more parents turned up.

Regards,
Dianne

[EmilyRose]

I think the schools are hesitant to add it because A) some parents might protest about teaching kids adult things, but more B) they don't want to interfere with a parents parenting style.

For example, if they teach that alcohol is terrible and you shouldn't drink ever, then a parent with a more relaxed view might get mad. It's just hard to please everyone and I think they've given up.

It does depend on the school too though. At Coolum High in yrs 8 & 9 you do sexual education, smoking, drinking, heaps of stuff.

[briggsy's girl]

i guess the main thing isn't to push moral right/wrong views - it is to educate about the physical impacts. if you drink, you lose your inhibitions, lose control etc - i guess most people get that. but how about the impacts of binge drinking. long term drinking? most teens, unless they've been exposed to it in someone close to them, just don't know. it needs to be taught without emotion - facts alone. non-judgement, but to the point. how many teens know that drinking regularly can have enough of an impact on your body that you can start bleeding and your blood won't clot? yup, i'm sure they've heard about liver damage from alcohol, but do they know what systemic impacts it has?? i didn't have to witness it, but i WAS the person in the middle as family tried to contact my (then) DF to tell him his brother was bleeding out. i was the one being told what was happening as they sat with him, and then having to call my DF and explain it to him. to this day, he doesn't know all of what i was told, because it was just too distressing to relay.

i'm no advocating scare tactics, but facts about how things can go so terribly wrong. my BIL killed himself through alcohol consumption (yes, i believe it was deliberate) and we have had to deal with the fallout and clean up of that. i will be (mostly) truthful with DD about what we observed - but i will take the emotion out if i can. i don't want her to think we're trying to scare her, i just want her to know the truth. we DO drink, so i'm not going to advocate abstinance, but i will educate her about the difference between responsible and irresponsible/dangerous consumption, and if she wants to drink, i will make sure it is in a safe environment