If it wasn't for DD2, I would have long periods where I thought I was an absolutely hopeless parent because DD1 is just so challenging in many of the ways that you've described.
My friend and I used to say, "if they will sit in time out, they're not that naughty in the first place."
It sounds like you've tried virtually everything and I think that seeking professional advice is a good idea. In the meantime, what helps me with DD1 is to spend lots of one-on-one time with her. This can get tricky as DP is not here in the evenings and DD2 goes to bed very late. Nevertheless, we had "special movie night" the other night which after DD2 went to bed didn't start till 9pm and because it involved a bath with mum, blowdrying hair before the movie even started ... didn't finish till midnight. But you do what you have to do.
If you find the answer, tell me because DD1 can be a real handful at times. DD2, on the other hand, with much slacker parenting is an angel (apart from bedtime).
I couldn't read all this and not reply.
Some of the described behaviours do sound like ODD but not entirely.
I come from a teaching/behaviour management background but it does not mean I have any or all the answers.
I might however have some suggestions you could try. Keep in mind in high level behaviour management classrooms we still have to trial things with kids now and then 'cause we get one who throws us a curveball.
If anyone is interested here are some things I'd like to suggest that might help. They might also be too much work to be worth trying.
One thing that seems really silly but is infinately useful is to monitor and record behaviour for a short period (about a week). Just look at it and keep a record. You might make a chart to put on the fridge and invent a quick recording method like #yelled at mum !refused a request *acted inappropriately etc. Then just make a chart and put the little symbols in for each hour so the chart would have space for Monday ruled up in hour times and then Tuesday and so on
This seems totally useless but here's the kicker. It is amazing how this highlights when behaviours happen and perhaps what happenings in the day cause them. For some kids it's because they are hungry/thirsty (ie a certain behaviour just before a mealtime) which is easy to fix, for others before or after a drive in the car or before a "friend" comes over or is leaving etc. For some kids you ralise it's just after the TV is switched off or just prior to your usual "quiet" time and you might just need to move that forward 15 mins.
This then leaves you armed (and more prepared) to tackle changes that can pre-empt the behaviour.
The other positive is that it gives you something to do instead of react immediately and it gives you a talking point with the kid at the end of the day (or with little ones halfway through the day).
The next thing is to prepare the kid for the day.
Tell them in the morning how the day will look (including how you both might feel).
IE We have to go to do the gorcery shop and then we'll get a treat at the shops. I am looking forward to that. When we get home we'll have to put the groceries away which I hate doing but if you can help there might be time to play outside after.
The other job we need to get done is to clean the bathroom. I hate cleaning the bathroom but I will do it. Maybe while I do that you can play with X toy or read Y book.
and so on. Let them have some input as to how they might feel and what thy'd like to do. Discuss ideas.
Good luck. So much of what's happening is trial and error and just when you get a handle on certain things the little people decide they need to change their responses!
Hang in there
Just to add to kateo's reply which has some awesome suggestions that I am going to use as well!! If you make up a little calendar you can laminate different things like a clip art for kinder, shopping, etc. and then go through each day and make a little timetable it might help. Iz always needs to know what we are doing on any given day, kids just love routine and having a rhythm for their day as it gives them security about what is happening. Some need more than others. xoxox
another one in this club.. DD has just turned 3 and i simply cannot parent her.. knows how to go to the toilet but wont.. broker her bed jumping on it after being told countless times not too. i love her but i simply and unable to parent her at times.. am not sure what to do she has good times but mostly she is very stressful for me. I love her so much but at times i do not know if i like her some days..
Hugs darl
As you know I'm aging issues with DD2 as well, I've gone back and started to read 1-2-3 magic again which means we're doing it correctly again (easy to slacken off and do incorrectly), it is working, if I want her to stop doing something it's 1-2-3 then timeout, if I want her to start doing something for me it's 5-4-3-2-1 if she doesn't then she looses a marble....a glass full = reward (movie etc...), maybe rent the DVD from the library, much quicker obviously than reading the book.
Thanks ladies. I am currently tracking down a copy of "raising a spirited child" and I might have to re-read 1 2 3 Magic.
Yesterday she was as firery as she has been but at least I didn't have her doing a complete and utter breakdowns - maybe progress?
DH & I did chat and we are going to perserve with putting her in her room if she is having a complete meltdown and we are also going to do more one on one time on the weekends (especially now that DS2 is older and isn't so dependant on me).
It is so reassuring to read that other kids have similiar behaviours (feel so bad for their mums though) and maybe I haven't completely and utterly stuffed her up.
What devestates me is that we had a school interview for her ad she was so incredibly well behaved, beautiful manners and simply a delight - why do I have such a shocker of a time at home with her?
DD1 here sounds a bit like some of the other kids. VERY independant, VERY stubborn, VERY strong willed and attitudy, coming back at me with "whatever" or "you've already told me x times, you don't need to tell me again". I too have days where I think "who is this child and where did she come from?".
Things that I have found worked for me....
- During complete meltdowns, putting her into her bedroom until she has calmed down. I go in and check on her but it could go for an hour+ sometimes. This came about from finding that "time out" or the "thinking spot" don't work for her.
- I use the "first to finish" game sometimes too. E.g - First to finish picking up the toys can have a stamp. I tend not to use a chart as such because she forgets I just give stamps on the hand - immediate reward.
- Lately we have had problems with cleaning up. I talk to the girls ALLOT about families and how we have to help each other. DD2 (although not that much younger) now says we have to help because we are a family. DD1 doesn't always agree - so she doesn't get the stamp but DD2 will.
- I use praise for all the good things and tell her how proud I am when she does something I like.
- Consequences - toys get taken away, no dessert, no treats eg cooking with me, or shopping with me. Obviously depending upon the inital problem.
- I always emphasis that she is my "helper" and I need her to "help me" teach her sister how to do things right ie. sleeping in your own bed, putting the toys away etc.
In our house the girls only really have 3 things that I want them to do - clean the toys up in the lounge room, clean the toys up in the bedroom and stack the shoes on the rack at the end of each day. Anything else, I try to involve them in eg, putting the clothes away, unpacking the dishwasher etc. But if they don't want to do it then I don't force it. As they get older i'm hoping that they will be involved more, guess i'll see what happens.
Big hugs to everyone who has spirited children. They are a huge challenge - it seems like the country will be in safe hands if all these children become CEO's etc
Liviam, in regards to school, is it that school will be a new challenge both mentally and emotionally for her? Is she at CC now? Is she getting bored and needs more stimulation?
Can I also add that I remember DD1 being very emotional towards the end of last year (4 yr old kinder) and her teacher sad it was VERY common to have issues, they have so much going on etc.....
I've ended up going to see a psychologist recently to help me deal with my reactions to my DS1 (4) and DS2 (2). In my case, it's DS2 who puts me through the ropes. While he can be gorgeous, more often than not he seems to wake in a bad mood and stays that way most of the day. He also has a short temper and gets very agitated and destructive when he's cranky about whatever. DS1 is more testing his boundaries - not always listening etc, but on the whole he's a hell of a lot more easy going than DS2. But some days they can be a combined cyclone on my emotions and patience. I've always acknowledged that their behaviour is relatively age appropriate, but DS2 is very, very strong willed and can be really hard to deal with. Being pg hasn't helped me in regard to my reaction to them. Like you, I've tried time out plus other methods - diverting attention, rewards and praise and 1, 2, 3. Sometimes if works for me/us, other times it doesn't.
In my case, I've read the books ... I understand about positive/negative attention and the general "tricks of the trade" in terms of how to deal with toddlers/pre-schoolers ... but "knowing" what to do and actually "doing" it are two different things. Well, in my book anyway. So in order to amp up my parenting skills and to try and help DS2 deal with his temper, I've ended up going to a psychologist. Only two sessions in, so it's early days but the psych has had some really good advice so far. Plus it's an opportunity to debrief to someone completely removed from our family. I don't know that I ever sucked completely as a mum, but I knew I had to find a way to deal with my kids' behaviour better - more calmly and patiently. I love my kids to death and want the best for them. Plus I didn't want my reactions to guide the way they react to things. For me it was time to hook in and do something. I'm so, so, so glad I've taken steps to improve myself as a parent.
Good luck - I really hope you find things turnaround soon xx
Massive :hugs: to you. It sounds very difficult right now.
Some titles I've found helpful
Unconditional Parenting - Alfie Kohn (also comes as a DVD talk)
Fingerpainting in Psych class - Jay Morgan (this is pretty full on with the positive praise and reinforcement but has some good info too)
Playful Parenting - Lawrence Cohen (haven't actually read this but it looks good and is on my bedside table)
There are also a lot of parenting facebook pages that are research based, linked to blogs, run by experts etc. If you are interested, PM me. They post interesting articles, ideas and blogs in my feed and I find it helps me to remain calm or to get some new ideas or a new perspective on an old behaviour.
BellyBelly Life Member - Love all your MCN friends
Jun 2004
The Festival State
3,008
i'm glad to have found this thread too. With us, the defiance is predominantly related to not eating. Which has ground me down so much, i DREAD mealtimes now. (she won't eat at school either, even for her teacher whom she adores, and with all her classmates eating).
Gigi my DD loves on air I swear. She will eat properly maybe one day a week & that's it. The other days she just snacks. Figure she has stocked up on the one day she has eaten. I've given up on the meal time fight - gonna to tackle that one later.
I'm going to go crazy left field here. But what are her vitamin levels like? I had a gf who's little one was going through very similar issues, she had blood tests and was pretty deficient in everything. Started her on some vitamins and her appetite returned and her behaviour improved as a result. Sometimes these things go hand in hand. Might be worth a check.
Rogue that is another great suggestion! Would never have thought of that. Thanks for the suggestion. Will add that to my list of things to talk to gp/health nurse about
It's funny you mention that rouge because I've had the same thoughts about DD2 and have a dr's appointment tuesday to discuss potential lack of vitamins (though she eats pretty well)
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