Do you do time out or the naughty spot?

[Cass72]

I don't know if this will help, but our LO has finally learnt what "gentle" means.

When he goes to hit, bite, or play too rough I calmly (took some time to get to calm) say: Robert, gentle. He stops what he's doing and will either pat or cuddle (depending if it's a book, toy or person) and say "gentle". Then it's praise-praise-praise.

With DS1 (when he was older, 3-5) I would count him down (using 1-2-3). One was a warning, 2 was a second warning - he knew that if I got to 3 he was in "serious trouble", ie, time-out; toys taken away, mummy being cross etc. The important thing was to follow through and be consistent. After he started to comprehend that his actions had consequences it was only the rare occasion that we got past 2 and three quarters.

Good luck!

[LimeSlice]

Haven't read all the replies, but we have always used time outs, but I really don't like them. I don't think they work.
I am reading a book at the minute called "Positive Discipline" and she has written a companion "Positive Timeouts" - some fabulous ideas in there and techniques for using positive time-outs to diffuse a situation without negativity or punishment.
I bought it at The Book Depository for about $20 I think with free post, so well worth it.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

We've started looking after my nephews a lot (family issues), so in teh past few weeks we've needed to 'guide' J a couple of times. Mainly about screaming in the house - it affects Mum differently to others, as she has Multiple Sclerosis, so he needs to learn that he can't scream when he's here. The other thing he does is this grating, fake cry when he's unhappy about something. We're trying to encourage him to tell us what's wrong, so we can help with it, rather than just sit there getting progressively more hysterical at us.

We have a naughty chair, which is in full view of everyone, it's between the lounge/dining area. He can still see us, but he seems to realise that he needs to stay there, because we never have to keep him on it, he waits for us to get him. He's never on there for more than 3 mins, as he's only 3 yrs. Honestly though, Mum and I hate it with a passion. He sobs and sobs when he's on the chair, and when he comes off he's cringing - I don't know what's going on in his head, but I don't like the outward signs.

Last week when he lost it and wouldn't listen, I just picked him up and held onto him, so he needed to calm down. I stood for a bit, until he calmed down, and then I sat on the couch but kept holding him and rubbed his back, until his breathing was regular and he would talk to me. He finally told me what he needed, and then I was able to help him - I much prefer that method personally.

[Miss E]

Thanks so much for all of your responses. I really value your sharing what works for you. I'm just feeling quite out of my depth right now. Many of the techniques such as holding them close, taking them away for a little quiet time, helping them to get control of their emotions etc are what I've always used, but are failing me big time at the moment. Now if I try these things he starts hitting and slapping me which just creates a whole other thing to address (which I am not doing well).

And the violence towards other kids is also getting out of control. Until this morning, I'd only ever seen him give a little push. But today we were at a cafe where they have a cubby and toys for the LO's and DS and another little boy were in the cubby. The other boy was in his way so DS shoved him and then slapped him across the face I couldn't believe it, it was so rough. I yelled stop straight away and went over and got him and told him that because he couldn't play nicely he would have to sit with mummy. Then explained the whole why we don't hit etc and said that I thought he should say sorry (I don't tell him to say sorry, because I don't think I should be forcing him to IYKWIM). He sat on my knee for about 30 seconds before trying to get off and I asked him if he wanted to say sorry and he said he did, so we went over but then he got a bit shy. Thankfully the other mum was very understanding. But I really feel like I didn't handle it particularly well. Or more so that he didn't learn anything from it.

I don't want to be a parent who yells and screams. I want to teach rather than dictate. But right now it feels like my teaching methods are failing miserably. His language is very good for his age and I know he understands what I'm saying (in terms of what hurt, happy, sad etc mean) - I'm just not sure he comprehends the meaning of it if that makes sense.

It's awful when his bad behavior is directed at other children, like today. While I believe in the approach we're taking to discipline him, it feels like everyone else is looking at me thinking I handled it terribly and that I should be yelling etc... I can't help but wonder if what we're doing just isn't working, if it is the age, or there are other factors at play. I don't know what i'm meant to do when I'm trying to calm him down or take him away from a situation and he starts hitting me. I can't let him continue, in some instances (like today) I can't just put him down and distance myself from him because he is hitting me... The carers at CC keep telling me his change in behavior is because I'm pregnant and they all do it at this stage, but I find that hard to believe. It just seems that we're going through a really difficult patch. I'm not sure if I should keep doing what we're doing or I need to employ some new techniques...

OK, this has definately turned into more of a vent. thanks for reading.

Everybody keeps mentioning the 123 Magic approach - it would be great if you could give me an overview of how it works.

[sloane]

well, i don't think you should give a stuff what the other people are thinking! but i do think you should do what feels right to you & what you think will benefit your DS in the long run. fwiw, i think lots of children at our LOs age do similar things - especially the boys. i know it doesn't help you feeling terrible - a friend who has a little girl that gets a bit boisterous said to me that she feels so bad it's like it was an extension of her own arm that pushed or hit another child. that summed it up perfectly for me - i feel terrible every time it happens esp when my DS is a loving, gentle little person for the most part.

i think it's tough until they can communicate a bit better to really know that they understand why what they did was wrong but i do think it's important to be consistent in your approach & staying calm & not yelling is a good example to your DS on how to handle a situation & stays focused on the issue rather than becoming an emotion-charged yelling match. i try to give DS alternative courses of action as well - if i can see that a push has resulted from frustration, then i try to explain how he could have just (for eg) said no or please move etc. i really hope it's sinking in!

i think it's even harder to deal with when you are filled with PG hormones as well.

[MamaPan]

I have read parts of 123 magic. it is about remaining calm and counting and then having consequences. but i will let someone who has gone through it explain it more eloquently!

for me, i have had diff approaches with DS1 and DS2, just due to their personalities. i didnt use timeout or anything like that with DS1 at that age but he was totaly emotional and v hardly did anything that may need it. he was pretty easy (in hindsight) and i used to remove him and tell him what he had done and why we dont do that etc

DS2, who is 2.5 as well is another case... he is much more testing and pushes lots of boundaries. he has also learned from ds1. I do take him to his room. i tell him what i want him to do and then count - if we get to 3 he goes to his room and tghen i get him and ask if he is ready for whatever we need him to do. he reacts well to being removed from the situation.if he does something totally unacceptable - he is removed straight away and i explain what he did and why it is wrong. this works well with him (would never have worked for DS1 though)

They have both been v advanced in speech and comprehension so i do a lot of explainming later - but i do think they need some space and time - rather than being 'talked at' when they are frsutrated, upset etc

Also positive reinforcement of what you do want is great - make a big song and dance over good sharing and nice behavior and ignore the bad (otr give morer attention to the person he hurt than to him). star charts/rewards/lots of praise - its more fun too.

I also think at this age it can be about control for them - so sometimes setting expectations. e.g. someone is coming over and they will want toplay with your toys. they wont take them home, they are still yours but they will use them while they are here. lets get some out that you are happy for them to play with. (then go over that a bit when theya re there)

[Beach Mama]

I have read parts of 123 magic. it is about remaining calm and counting and then having consequences. but i will let someone who has gone through it explain it more eloquently!

Yep that is it in a nutshell - I know that there is a DVD series as well. I have the book but as mentioned earlier I need to re-read it! One thing that he mentions in it is that not every behaviour needs a long drawn out discussion and in depth D&M!! Sometimes they are naughty, know they have done something wrong, need to sit in time out away from whatever else is going on for a few minutes and then carry on again without needing the meaning of life/sharing/fighting explained!! Something along those lines anyway but it struck me because I overanalyse sometimes and need to realise that keeping it simple is the best case sometimes!

[Laranna]

Yep that is it in a nutshell - I know that there is a DVD series as well. I have the book but as mentioned earlier I need to re-read it! One thing that he mentions in it is that not every behaviour needs a long drawn out discussion and in depth D&M!! Sometimes they are naughty, know they have done something wrong, need to sit in time out away from whatever else is going on for a few minutes and then carry on again without needing the meaning of life/sharing/fighting explained!! Something along those lines anyway but it struck me because I overanalyse sometimes and need to realise that keeping it simple is the best case sometimes!

Yep exactly that. The whole idea of it is to avoid the talk-persuade-argue-yell-smack syndrome. The idea is to use counting on the behaviours you want your child to stop (such as arguing, fighting, yelling, teasing, etc) and using praise and encouragement for start behaviours (brushing teeth, picking up toys, going to bed, etc). With the counting, the idea is to give the child a warning (that's 1), give him/her a chance to stop (that's 2) and if the child doesn't stop (that's 3) you give time out or a time out alternative (removal of favourite toy, earlier bedtime, etc). And the time out length is 1 minute for every year of age. So a 3 year old would get a 3 minute time out.

At the end of the day when they are so young, explanations get lost on them. They are after all just kids and sometimes trying to explain things to them, it's like I'm trying to explain something to an adult which is just frustrating for me and annoying for them. For example, DS knows it's good to share his toys with his sister so I don't really need to give him an explanation each time he takes toys off her, it's time out. It's enough to give everyone a chance to refocus.

[onthefly]

I think you're handling this well! Truly. I agree yelling will not get you anywhere - you'll only be teaching another bad habit.
The CC ladies are probably right about this being a phase. And don't forget - there's a lag between comprehension and being able to act on things (or restrain themselves for that matter). Just because they understand, doesn't mean they can or will do as you ask.
The hitting is really hard one and I totally understand your frustration and anxiety about it! Here's a blog post that might give you a few ideas (and also validate your response so far).

Talking thigns through and leading by example takes time. You do have to do it over and over. And you will often get to the point where you think this is not working, my kid will never get it... and then they do. And they really, really get it. It's not a conditioned response to fear of punishment or striving to get a reward, it's actually them regulating themselves. So it's worth it. It just takes time. Be kind to yourself though - you're not a superhero so some days it might all be too much and that's ok. It doesn't mean you've failed or anything.

With regards to the hitting also, maybe consider diet too. Sometimes there's more than one thing going on.

ETA - I also think that when kids are worked up, talking to them right then can often just make it worse. And, even more important than letting them know something is wrong, is figuring out why they are acting out. There is always a reason.