Five Reasons to Stop Saying "Good Job!"

[jackrose]

Heaven, I love Alfie Kohn also and feel really inspired about his thoughts on parenting, education and managing in the workplace.

I really wanted to say "Good Job Heaven" when I read this thread.... but I know better now

[berrme]

I'm also trying to put that into adult perspective. One of my biggest gripes with one of my bosses was that he never gave praise for doing a good job. You could work your butt off all day and strive to do everything to the best of your ability, but you would get no more acknowledgement than the poor worker that slacked off all day and did the bare minimum to things done. I would have worked just as hard and enjoyed the work much more if at least once in a while I got a "good job".

I thought the same thing. Perhaps it is unnecessary to thank a child for doing something nice to show them that what they did what they did was nice, but if I never got any appreciation for my efforts I would stop putting in the effort. Maybe my parents ruined me with praise?

I think what they really are getting at is to make sure your only words of praise aren't "good job". I think I do a lot more of what they are suggesting with my 4yo than with my 2yo because he has the comprehension and language skills to make it possible. He gets whole discussions about why it was nice to share the cookies around, or what is good about his drawings, etc. The boys don't just get "good job" after they have cleaned up their play doh... we have a chat about how good it is that the table is clean now and that the play doh won't dry out and get ruined. It is not something I have ever thought about doing, I just explain things alot.
So, I think the article is right in suggesting that too much hollow praise can be detrimental, but I don't think that all praise is bad. I just think we need to explain/ discuss what is good about children's achievements more rather than just saying they are good.

[Roryrory]

Surely as part of a balanced diet of modelling desirable behaviour, talking about desirable behaviour and reading about it in picture books, praise in itself is not an evil. IMO it's like salt. Yes, too much is not good for kids but as part of a balanced diet it is ok. As part of a balanced parenting repertoire aimed at developing social and emotional intelligence, praise can be used in moderation IMO.

And as the parent of three children, I will use whatever "manipulative" methods I can think of to stop older siblings from hurting my youngest. Frankly I don't care if my boys feel manipulated when I tell them that I am pleased at how gentle they are with their little sister or that it's great how they involve her in their games. Because I also tell them to watch how much she enjoys them, and to think about how she feels, and explain that we all get along better as a family when we co-operate.

ETA : I would also rather a child who grows up to be a praise junkie than an anti-social "a" who doesn't give a stuff about societal norms or other people's feelings. Therapy for being a praise junkie is probably easier to come by and less detrimental to society as a whole than therapy for someone who has never been told that what they are doing is good or bad.

Sorry, it's late and I am ranting a little

[Just Me]

Hmmm, certainly food for thought.

My initial thoughts are - I have a 2.75 yo with fairly limited language skills. Yes, I could sit there and ask him questions about "it" and I do, but he often lacks the words to respond and I see him getting a bit frustrated and confused by this. So I help him out by having my input in the form of praise or descriptive language, but that is exactly what this article is telling me not to do, or at least limit. And when he does exclaim "Yay, I did it!!' (or Yay, my did it!" in his exact words) then I do reinforce that. Which leads me on to my next thought....

Why do we have to consciously think about how our words and actions are affecting our children and their future? I love and respect my children, and so when they have little achievements, however small, I don't want to be thinking about how to phrase what I want to say to them in case i am making them a "praise junkie" or setting them up for a fall in their adult years. Yes the research is there, but aren't we all different and so will have different thoughts and reactions to praise, criticism or whatever. And having this diversity allows us to understand and be appreciative that we are all different and normal at the same time?

So, while I will file this article and these ideas in the back of my mind, and will draw on them as I see fit, I am not going to take it as a "must do this and not that". I'm going to follow my heart and intuition, because surely my love and respect for my children will guide them and me in just the right direction for us.

I don't think that Alfie means to not show genuine appreciation and excitement for your kids. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it's healthy and normal. I think it is okay to say 'Yay' or 'Wow' and I even say 'good' sometimes, but I am careful about how I use it.

In the start of his unconditional parenting book, he talks about a sitting next to a guy on a plane who leaned forward at the end of the trip and said to the parents 'Your little boy did such a good job during the flight. I didn't hear him the whole time.' Kohn delves deeper into what he actually meant by those words - it wasn't really that the little boy did anything, more that what the man said meant that their little boy didn't bother him. I think the motivation behind your words is a much bigger factor in what you are saying to your kids, than your words themselves, if that makes sense. I think genuine excitement and appreciation is a great thing for kids to experience


Someone also mentioned a parallel with our boss at work. I think the whole point of this style of parenting is that it is not a relationship with your kids similar to the one you have with your boss. UP (unconditional parenting) aims to eliminate the heirachial situation often found in families and focuses on the relationship itself. I think it aims to eliminate the need for your kids to have your praise and approval for the things they do. They do what they do because they are internally motivated and they have confidence in themselves no matter what others say. Praise is not always forthcoming in life so it is not good to be dependent on it but to know within yourself that what you are doing is okay is a pretty powerful thing to pass onto your kids. Eliminating the need to seek approval from other people is a great self confidence builder!

Having said that, I agree that everyone wants to be appreciated and acknowledged though. It's just not acknowledgement with a judgement of 'yes, you have done what I wanted you to do'. It's more an acknowledgement of a fact 'You have worked really hard today' or a motive 'I can see you tried to work really hard today'.

The other thing with praise is the assumed power position of the people who are offering the praise. By offering approval through praise, they are saying that they know best. UP encourages parents to work with their children rather than always doing things to their children. I think when you start working with your children it stops the power structure in families and everyone is on an even playing field because everyone is an equal.

I have to go because I have screaming baby but I hope some of that made sense

[AndiE]

I think it's a load of bollocks...

I so agree. Someone please explain to me how - by saying "good job" when a child has done, well, a good job with something - that we are "telling them how to feel". Bloody hell, don't MOST of us like a little praise when we've done something well. At the age of 2 or 3, putting toys away or eating all their dinner is probably the equivalent of a 33 year old cleaning the house or making a five-course gourmet meal.

Methinks some boffins have waaaay too much time on their hands.

ETA: when I say "someone please explain" I was being general (wasn't a specific question to anyone in the thread), but if someone is keen to take my question literally, then please feel free

[Boo Boo]

Jeepers, Parenting is so over analysed today, there are thousands of books, articles, studies, you name it, and now there is an article on praising our kids, what next? Toss out the books and just do what comes naturally and if "good job" comes out of your mouth when your child has done something well then so be it. I really don't think it will have a detrimental effect on him.

[Amaunet]

Seriously? I find the concept of praise being detrimental to my son just...ridiculous... the smiles I get for the praise, the sense of pride he shows can't be wrong. Telling a child they have done a good job, when they have, no matter what positive words you use, is a good thing. My concern is for those children who don't hear it enough, not the ones who may hear it "too much"!

[Charlotte91]

I'm not overly impressed with this.

DD is only 6 months old and I'm always saying "Good girl!" or "Good head holding". She doesn't know what I'm saying but she always laughs and gets very excited.

Have to agree with Jaycee.

But, in saying that I don't agree with it, each to their own.

We all need to raise our children the way WE WANT TO. Not how society wants us to raise them.

[Roryrory]

Amaunet as you'll see from my response I am also sceptical. But as an aside there has been some interesting work by Martin Seligman on the self-esteem movement and praise and how it can bring about unrealistic expectations in kids. Worth a google.

[Amaunet]

RR, I get where you are coming from. I should have clarified that the praise should be for something praiseworthy iykwim? Not praise for the sake of it? Does that make sense? It's valid praise/acknowledgement of something so that's what I think shouldn't be held back?

[Heaven]

I love Alfie Kohn too, and while I support the idea, mostly, I also believe no praise is not the answer. Praise for the sake of praise, I acknowledge, is unnecessary, but there have be times when I might say "Wow! I love that picture you drew!" because I actually do love the picture.

If you pay attention to Eriksen's theories, which I do, then I hold to praising relevant actions. So in the autonomy stage, you praise actions of autonomy (or use phrases like "you did it!") and in the initiative stage, you praise initiative - a three year old canot be told often enough that "that was a good idea" - even if the execution leaves your kitchen floor covered in golden syrup.

But I have heard a lot of nonsensical praise in my time - good dancing, good clapping, etc. Completely unnecessary, and not helpful at all.

And at the end of the day, don't overthink it too much. Don't go out of your way to praise, don't stifle what comes naturally. Stressing over your words will NOT improve your parenting.

I think this pretty much sums up what I've been thinking too Audax. I see where the article is coming from and I think I sometimes do go a bit overboard with the praise when it might be more helpful to say something else. So I will keep that in mind. But I won't stop praising all together. I think some praise is definitely needed IMO.

[sneakysparkle]

Ive read this before, and Im not sure I agree with all of it.

Ive been thinking of Gary Chapman's "5 love languages" (theres a children's version) and some kids just NEED words of affirmation - its the way they receive - and give love. So I think if I had a child that needed lots of positive encouragement - Id give it to them.

I do agree with being specific with encouragement though, like "Great drawing - I love the colours you used" rather than just a "good girl!"

Sorry if that makes no sense lol

[kiwimummy]

I really like the article - thanks for posting it

When I read the title of the thread I though, for for goodness sake .. but when you read it properly (without a child in the room distracting you ) it makes a lot of sense. I try not to say Good boy/good girl all the time - and I replaced it with Good job/good drawing/good tidying whatver! But now I can see why that also isn't ideal.
Hard habit to break and rather ingrained in society (does my head in when MIL goes "good boy!!!" to DS overenthusiastically all. the. time)

I can see why people think it's a bit crazy to worry about praising and perhaps over the top to constantly analyse our parenting. But I think this is a good article and I'll be trying to use it when I can - but not worrying about my kids futures or beating myself up when I undoubtedly forget and spout out a few "good job"'s here and there!

[Just Me]

Jeepers, Parenting is so over analysed today, there are thousands of books, articles, studies, you name it, and now there is an article on praising our kids, what next? Toss out the books and just do what comes naturally and if "good job" comes out of your mouth when your child has done something well then so be it. I really don't think it will have a detrimental effect on him.

Just to play devils advocate for a minute - do you think that maybe the phrase 'good job' comes naturally is because of the way we were raised and because we hear it all the time? Maybe it's not that natural I guess the point I am trying to make is that maybe what we believe has been shaped a lot by the cultural influences around us and if we didn't step back and analyse what we were doing, there are a lot of things that seem 'normal' and 'natural' because the people around us do them but aren't actually natural. If we never analysed what we are doing, I think even normal and natural things like breastfeeding would be faded out eventually because it stopped being seen as 'normal' a few years ago because of advertising campaigns by formula companies. It only takes one generation to do something or not do something before the following generation sees it as 'normal' and 'natural'.

I am not saying that Alfie Kohn has all the answers (even Alfie himself admits he doesn't), but I think we do have to be aware of our cultural influence and the reasons that we think the way we do. What we consider to be natural, may in fact not be natural at all but a learned behaviour from our childhood. Actually, the Unconditional Parenting book addresses the issue of why we believe what we believe about parenting and why it is so important to understand what underpins our values. It the values that we don't realise that are there that can be the most dangerous ones because they drive us and the are the basis for our beliefs.

There is also not just one article on our kids examining the effects of praise - there has been heaps of research dating back many years. Most of it has been done to understand what happens in education. Alfie Kohn started out his research and study looking at what happens in schools. Most of his parenting stuff is an overflow from that.

I found it very confronting when I first read about his ideas ... it went against everything I believed (and I was a behaviour management teacher before I became a mum). I have had heaps of experience with kids from all different situations and all different behaviours and now I have my own kids. But it has been a process for me to understand what it actually means. One of the most powerful things that I have gained from looking more into this is that I am understanding myself as a parent and why I do the things I do. Some of my beliefs have changed as I have started to realise why I think the way that I do and as I really start to question that.

I don't think that this information is trying to treat children like precious petals or anything like that, rather I think it is trying to question our beliefs about parenting to help us better understand why we do what we do. It's designed to challenge our thinking and cause us to look at what is underpinning many of our beliefs.

Really, the praise aspect of this style of parenting, is just one small part of a much bigger picture

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I use "thank you" instead of "good boy". If I want DS to do something, I tell him and if he doesn't, I let him know I will be sad if he doesn't do it because it's more work for me - and thank him for helping if he does help.

I will tell DS that his colouring is neat, or that I like spending time with him, or that he's my gorgeous star-child. He tells me he loves me, that I'm beautiful and that I shouldn't be angry with him after warning him I'll be cross if he ignores me. I do use "good boy" words, such as "productive", "creative", "helpful", "well reasoned" and the like - but that's specifics that I want to encourage, as opposed to just some random "good" which is unquantifiable.

FWIW, I stopped using "good boy" when DS started saying it to me and I realised how patronising it actually is.

[jackrose]

I think you have summed up my take of the praise problem FB

You have managed to post pretty much what I have thought about saying here in the past day, but managed it in a few short paragraphs, where I know I would have waffled on for a page or two!

I am trying to get the chance to respond more but keep being foiled by the two... It is certainly an interesting approach to dealing with people/children and I have been interested to read responses so far.

[berrme]

I had my PILs here on the weekend and as soon as FIL arrived I thought of this thread. He got out of the car and asked DS1 to shut the gate, which he did straight away. Instead of just thanking him which I would have done, he said "good boy" in a patronising tone about 5 times. It sounded like he was talking to a dog... I was waiting for him to start rubbing him on the head and give him a treat. He did this everytime either of my sons did anything even slightly helpful or impressive all weekend.
It has always annoyed me the way he does this and I think it really shows how we do need to do more than just say "good boy" or "good girl" when our children do well at something.

[BrightSparkles]

I think its a load of bs and and i don't agree
I think children need to be praised for things they do - if ifs good girl/boy, good job, well done whatever you use to word it. It helps build self esteem and self confidence in kids. I do and will continue to tell my girls they are doing a good job or whatever words i use at the time. i blieve it's healthy and a nuturing part of growing up.