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Thread: 20 minutes of sobbing 'helps put baby to sleep'

  1. #19

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    ^ I think it's a bit narrow-minded to say things like 'If you like your sleep, don't have a family'... every situation is different and what works great for some mums and bubs, doesn't work so well for others.
    I'm sure everybody who has, or intends upon having, kids is well aware of the fact that they will lose a LOT of sleep - and that's fine, we're prepared for that, but there are so many circumstances in which an overtired parent can actually do more harm than good for their child.

    Sleep deprivation has been repeatedly proven to cause, or exacerbate, physical and mental illness, and in extreme cases can lead to severe mental breakdowns or even death (again, I said 'extreme' cases). I'm not suggesting that we all leave our kids to sob themeslves to sleep every night, but I know that a lot of mothers have health issues, such as PND, which are adversely affected by a severe lack of sleep and happy mums = happy babies, so suggesting that a parent 'just put up with it' doesn't help.



    I know that everybody's situation is different, but myself personally, well let's just say that if I don't get a decent night's sleep, DD is the one who suffers the next day because I simply cannot muster the energy to crack a smile, let alone run around in the backyard with her, read her endless storybooks, and interact with her on the level she deserves. I also find that if she wakes during the night, going to her and picking her up only tells her 'it's morning, playtime!!' and she refuses to go back to sleep - meaning I'm then up for hours, trying to keep DD quiet so as not to wake the rest of the household, and I don't catch up on that sleep during the day because I have housework to do. If I leave her to settle herself (which she usually does in less than three minutes), the house is soon quiet and everybody can continue sleeping uninterrupted. And the next day, I'm able to be the mother DD deserves - energetic, fun to be around, and much more patient and tolerant of the inevitable tantrums and mischief.
    I do not feel that this in any way impacts on my relationship with DD - it's a trust issue. She knows that if it's important, I am there for her in seconds, but if she's woken up for 'no good reason', she has the coping skills to shrug it off and go back to sleep without my help. I'm not saying my way is any better than your way, but it works for us, whereas it might not work for you and your kids, the way your methods might not work for me and my kids, etc.

    I also consider myself very lucky in that I have the support of my parents - if DD is having a bad few days and I'm at my wits' end I know that my parents will gladly take DD for the night and allow me to catch up on sleep and get my head together. Other women may not have that support, and it's not just they who suffer for it - it's their children as well.

    Sorry for the long ramble, but yeah... sometimes things just aren't as simple and easy as, 'Suck it up, you big lug'.

  2. #20

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    firstly, I don't mean to be harsh and I agree different things work for different people but coming from a mum who is mourning the fact she isn't having any more babies I don't understand people who control cry - I don't mean people who sit with a crying baby - I agree sometimes kids need a cry to let out tension but I don't understand why you want a baby of 6mth to "learn to sleep by themselves" i just don't get it???? I LOVE snuggling up with my kids at bedtime - yes it's a pain when we are entertaining and i need to excuse myself to read to them and lie with them until they fall asleep but wow what a blissful time we have in there - in fact my hubby and I now argue over who gets to put the kids to sleep :-)

    Not once have i ever had a problem with my kids coming out of their rooms, asking for water, procrastinating or hating going to bed, everyone loves bedtime it is such a gentle time to sit in the dark and be with each other after a busy day. When my babies were little I would rock or pat or cuddle or just sit with them, now they are too big so we lie down together until my youngest falls asleep. My eldest tells me he doesn't need me to stay anymore but I should stay until his sister falls asleep and if I need to get up for any reason he gets into bed with her and they snuggle together.

    I know parents are busy and life is stressful especially when they are little but enjoy the blissful sleeping time because 10 yrs from now they won't need you to rock or cuddle them to sleep and you will miss it desperately. We only have them little for such a short amount of time, don't rush them to "grow up" or become "independant" too fast

    PS - after attachemnt parenting both my kids I have to say in comparison to my nephews and nieces my two have less seperation anxiety, are less clingy and more independant - and sleep better :-)

    Sorry for the rant JMO

  3. #21

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    you know...they are only our babies for such a short time.....before we know it...a blink of an eye and they are this little person who is quiet happy to go in their own bed and to sleep. Cherish the early days because that closeness that you feel with your child is only there for a little while....and once its gone...you'll only have the memories.

    Id much prefer to give my baby a cuddle whilst they go to sleep rather then have them cry, scream and get over stressed before they exhaust themselves.

    I am so sick and tired of 'experts' voicing that our children need to sleep better, do this better, do that better......are we expecting to much from them...they are just babies....they need to experience the world in an innoicent non violent way. Screaming a baby to sleep seems cruel in my eyes, not just for the baby but for the parents involved. Who need's the stress involved with it.

    Live life people..love your baby with your arms and heart...not by shutting a door

  4. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by maz View Post
    I am so sick and tired of 'experts' voicing that our children need to sleep better, do this better, do that better......are we expecting to much from them...they are just babies....they need to experience the world in an innoicent non violent way. Screaming a baby to sleep seems cruel in my eyes, not just for the baby but for the parents involved. Who need's the stress involved with it.

    Live life people..love your baby with your arms and heart...not by shutting a door

    Agreed 100%

    From Birth till he was too heavy to hold/ Didn't fit comfortably in my/DH's arms our DS was rocked/Feed/Sung to sleep. From here we moved to sitting on the recliner laying him down on our knees and swaying our legs until he was asleep..now he's to big for that... he goes into his cot and one of us holds his hand or sings, pat his bottom or rubs his back until he's nearly asleep and he goes off on his own now.

    If he is tired and I put him down he 8/10 he goes off by himself nothing from me or DH is required and I honesty believe that is because he KNOWS if he needs us we come. there are occasions when we need to go in but hey....Thats my little boy!! If he needs me, he needs me simple as that.

    So many people incl my parents have shot us down for doing this, and after so much critisism I tried CC once and felt physically sick...Just not something I can do plain and simple. but I'll never be bullied into anything just because "others" think it's what "has" to be done, or the "right" way.

    I guess like many things when it comes to parenting though different strokes for different folks.

  5. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Leasha~ View Post
    There needs to be more to support parents through tough sleep patches, so they don't need to resort to (un)controlled crying.
    .
    This is the heart of the matter!!! This is what we need MCHN to know! My dd didn't sleep for the first 15mths of her life - it was hard but we made it through. We were given no helpful advice from medical professionals except controlled crying variations and giving her phenurgan to sedate her?????

    What ended up helping was an elimination diet - sleep problems solved no controlled crying needed

  6. #24

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    I can't say I agree with controlled crying in most circumstances, and certainly not from birth. That said, we have a client who has recently been having lots of problems with an unsettled baby, poor feeding, a diminishing milk supply, and a baby who was losing weight. We went down a lot of other paths first - attachment parenting, baby wearing, but she just wasn't coping. She was a single mum, and despite the support of her family, she was having lots of trouble and was very used to a routine.

    In the end, we decided to try controlled crying with her four month old. Within 24 hours he was sleeping and feeding for longer periods; within 48 hours, he was sleeping really well, and feeding really well. Within the week, she was feeling 100% better, her milk supply was noticably improved, and bub was gaining weight. And that is the second time I have seen it work.

    I think we need to be careful not to demonise it. I don't believe for a minute that babies can be manipulative, although I do think that mothers and babies can develop bad parenting habits that become entrenched and lead to sleep and settling problems. When managed sensitively and appropriately, it can be a good option for some mums and babies. And there is certainly a big difference between carefully managed controlled crying and the kind of baby abandonment espoused by Truby King devotees...

    We "kind of" used controlled crying with Molly, although not with Olivia - we just knew from her personality that she would not benefit from us, she was a very attached baby and remains so today.

    I don't think it is a bad thing that MCHN have an understanding of it, the ramifications of it, and an understanding of how to do it properly and safely, although I do hope that they are sensitive and careful in who they offer it too, and how it is taught.

  7. #25

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    Never going to happen.

    Last time I let some stupid MCHN talk me into "controlled crying", Angie was still sobbing as she slept! That to me was so very wrong and could not possibly have been healthy on a mental level.

    IMO, if someone doesn't want to be woken up by a crying baby - don't have a baby. They eat, sleep, poop and cry. That much is not a national secret.

  8. #26

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    Find out what "controlled crying" actually is before commenting. It's a bad name for it and the right way should be described as controlled "comforting". Don't knock something that you don't know about fully. The media love to put a spin on things -kids are not supposed to be left for 20 mins at a time etc.
    Done correctly, it can have a very positive outcome for all. And mostly the bubs. But don't ever try before 6 months of age. It will have no effect other than stressing you and eveyone out.

    But, as someone said in an earlier post, horses for courses - one thing doesn't suit everyone.

    All the best to you,

    Deb

  9. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel Babies 3 View Post
    Find out what "controlled crying" actually is before commenting. It's a bad name for it and the right way should be described as controlled "comforting". Don't knock something that you don't know about fully. The media love to put a spin on things -kids are not supposed to be left for 20 mins at a time etc.
    Done correctly, it can have a very positive outcome for all. And mostly the bubs. But don't ever try before 6 months of age. It will have no effect other than stressing you and eveyone out.
    Whether it's called controlled comforting or controlled crying, I think we're all pretty au fait with the method whether we agree with it or not - it involves ever longer periods of allowing a baby to cry, and to teach themselves to settle. I think most of us know about controlled crying (or comforting, if you prefer) from more than the one source cited here.

    I'm interested in the "don't do this before 6 months" idea. We all know babies mature at different rates... What's the cognitive change at 6 months, particularly, that makes controlled crying/comforting acceptable from a developmental point of view?

    You are also assuming some kind of standard that professionals use to define what is acceptable and what's not. Believe me, after having five children, I've heard every permutation of controlled crying (or comforting) come out of professionals' mouths, from letting a baby cry but never leaving its side (patting its back, etc), to letting it cry for as long as it takes. I've seen women berated in mother/baby units for not wanting their child to cry until it vomits all over its sheets, for up to half an hour or even more.

  10. #28

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    I got to the point of letting my DD cry herself to sleep when she was about 9 months old - she had been teething and all her good sleep patterns had gone and I was completely exhausted (I read earlier it doesn't take imagination to do something different, but I didn't have any other info and I saw one of those 'baby whisperer' interview with their magic fix and I was feeling desperate). It did absolutely no good at all. She would scream and try to climb back up my arm as I put her down in the cot to sleep. She became terrified of her own bed. We started rocking her to sleep again after only 2 days of trying cc but she would sleep with one eye open and wake the second she was put down and start her terrified screaming again. She would eventually settle but as soon as we opened the door to leave the room it would start again. It was a nightmare. Eventually we went back to using the Tweedle method (which we had used when she was very young) and sitting next to her bed and patting her to sleep. It took 2 months to reverse the damage of 2 days.

    The other thing we found it that if she ever did fall asleep while crying, she would wake herself up again with sobbing. It was horrible.

    We have tried nothing of the sort with DS and had no real sleep issues with him. I also think that I have adjusted to being a parent a little better now that I had when I had my first baby.
    Last edited by Just Me; April 8th, 2009 at 04:12 PM.

  11. #29

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    Maz spot on hun Well said!

    WE must trust our instincts not go aginst them! I have heard of mums having to be restrained while letting there child cry! that doesnt sit right with me!

    Pinky got it right with her comment in the article!

    Lets love and cherish our beautiful babies each and evry day! I know its hard when they dont sleep or go to sleep when we want them too! But I have cried myslef to sleep and its not nice!

    We are going through a stage now of DS not sleeping well and its hard but I could never let him cry for 20 mins! Lots of love cuddles and gentleness and he falls asleep eventually, yep I may have missed something I wanted to watch on TV or precious time on BB but I know my baby fell alseep feeling secure!

    But we all must make our own descisions and we do the very best we can!

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