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Thread: control crying

  1. #1
    maggie Guest

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    Hi

    Has anyone done controlled crying to help babies settle, and if so ,a t what age did they start and how did it go

    DS will only sleep if fed to sleep or rocked, i dont mind this, but family are saying it will cause me grief in the long run, and to do controlled crying



    I can never settle him in his cot he becomes hysterical and i hate that, so that is why i feed to sleep or rock which does not take to long

    any ideas? thanks

  2. #2

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    Hi Maggie,
    First thing i want to say never do anything you wouldn't feel comfortable with just because others think you have to. If you are happy with feeding or rocking to sleep then it shouldn't be a prob, only in others minds.

    From what I've read and heard CC shouldn't really be attempted in a baby under 6 months. If you are not happy with doing CC anytime I have heard there are some books out there that will give you ideas of what to try without tears, I haven't read any myself as yet but you could ask in comforted sleeping- no cry sleep solutions forum.

    My DD is just over 3 months old and we do the same thing she rarely puts herself to sleep and only does if she's helped to get drowsy. It doesn't bother me cause I will feed her to sleep and if I've popped out then whoever is looking after her can rock or cuddle her to sleep so i don't see it as a problem.

    And another thing is that maybe as your baby gets older he himself will learn not to rely on you so much for sleep so why go thru the grief of forcing him just cause others tell you what you "should" do. Follow your instincts and do whatever makes you and your baby happy.

  3. #3
    Cee_Cee99 Guest

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    Maggie,
    awwww... Hugs. I know how hard it is. There are a few things to consider, however I would be concerned if you are doing them for any other reason that to make you and your baby happier.
    i dont mind this, but family are saying it will cause me grief in the long run
    don't listen to your family, they are not you nor in your position... the things we do with a full nights sleep and no hormonal conection to a baby differ greatly to a well rested stranger or friend/family member.

    what we did (which was by no means perfect) we rocked Ally to sleep till she grew up and told me she did not want to be rocked anymore... how did she tell me, she woke every hour on the hour at night and would not go back down unless BF or rocked. I had a Tresillian nurse visit me and help me with some ideas and within 2 days Ally was putting herself to sleep (no real crying just a lot of the "mmmm" sound).

    I say (and this is what Tresillian say) if it is working for you, then don't change, if it is not working for you then seek something that will work.

    Good luck honey, trust in yourself, you sound like a great Mum.
    Last edited by Cee_Cee99; December 27th, 2006 at 02:42 PM.

  4. #4

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    I tried CC with Matilda. I can honestly say it was the worst time for us. I was emotional, and she was a mess. I've just read an article put out by the univeristy of Qld saying that CC before 6 months raises the cortisol levels in the brains of newborns and can cause those stress indicators to change the amount of stress the brain can handle as adults. I'll try and find the article...

  5. #5

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    I agree generally with what the other girls have said. You need to do what is best for YOU & baby. Ignore what everyone else is telling you and decide what you want to do. Nobody else is there 24 hours a day, and nobody knows your child like you do.

    CC works for some and not for others. We did it with Maddy when she was almost 5 months old and it was a godsend. At the end of the day, my DH & I made a decision of what was best for our family. (We were waking every hour during the night no matter what I did) If you don't feel comfortable with the idea, then it's probably best at this point (given that you've said you don't mind rocking to sleep etc) to leave sleeping babies lie whatever way it takes to get them there!

  6. #6

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    Here's some articles from the main site you might like to show them:

    Controlled Crying
    The Con of Controlled Crying

    Back in our parents day, it was the new 'in' thing, what many did - to think things have changed is a big thing for them! Also whats changed is what we have seen as a result of those who have done it.
    Kelly xx

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    BellyBelly Birth & Early Parenting Immersion - Find out how to have a BETTER, more confident birth experience... guaranteed!
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  7. #7

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    I had a friend who told me about her experience with cc. her & her dh thought that the best way to get their ds to stop waking throght the night fpr a bott;e was to ignor him. the first night they did this, she said was really hard but after an hour or so he stoped crying and went back to sleep. Not once did they go to him. In the morning she went to his room to find that in the time he spent crying himself to sleep he had vomited & poo'd every where (apparently his nappy leaked or came off?) and then had to sleep in his own mess.
    I was shocked that not only they did this but that she told me. she said she felt terrible about it.
    I am still shocked that they not once went and checked him.

    Oh & i type this one handed as i feed my baby to sleep, just as i have with my boys.

  8. #8

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    OMG that is so scary... Matilda when we did CC (okay it was for 5 nights...) vomitted a few times and on the last night we trialled it she vomitted quite a bit &that was when I said enough is enough. She worked herself up into such a frenzy and I had enough, I ran into her and picked her up vomit & all and changed her & cuddled her until she fell asleep. I closed the door on CC. The only reason I gave it a go was I was tired and overwhelmed from not having a child who slept, and people kept saying that she didn't sleep because we hadn't taught her how too.

    Now with Jovie I've been told she's spoiled, that she'll never get good sleeping habits and all sorts of rubbish. Jovie sleeps so much better than Matilda ever did. They came from the same place too. Babies respond to different things, but we as mothers have to make decisions best for us & our babies, not by what other people push on us in our tired, emotional and hormonal state.

  9. #9
    Jodie259 Guest

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    Maggie...
    I can understand why many mothers would not consider controlled crying - and that is fine.
    But I am a mother whose child WOULD NOT SLEEP - no matter what we did. He would become over-tired and would scream for hours every night. When he eventually went to sleep (from exhaustion) - he would wake up constantly throughout the night.

    We tried so much "comforting" and it did NOTHING.

    At the end of my tehter, my MCHN recommended a local sleep school. I went for a day stay, which was helpful, but wasn't long enough to really learn. So a couple of months later we booked in for residential stay at the sleep school. My husband came too so that he could learn the techniques as well.

    It was the BEST thing we could have done!
    They did not teach the controlled crying technique where you leave the baby to cry for XX minutes. Instead you stay with your baby until they calm down... but you don't take them out of their cot every time they whimper. And we learnt to really recognise the tired signs and put him to bed WIDE AWAKE. And we were taught to re-settle so that he could learn to do it himself.

    At the time our baby was 5.5 months old. Within 12 hours he was sleeping for 1.5 hours 3 times a day (as opposed to the 15 minute naps he would take previously). After getting the day sleeps sorted out, he was so calm and happy - and would go down at night really relaxed... instead of the stressed out, reluctant boy he was before. He would still wake a couple of times during the night, but that was bearable.

    He's now 7 months old (today) - and for about a week or more, he has been sleeping right through the night from 11pm to 7.30-8am. And he wakes up happy. And he is so much happier during the day. And he is happy to GO TO SLEEP during the day or the evening.

    You really shouldn't worry about what other people say.
    There are a lot of people who bag the idea of any type of sleeping techniques and think that you should get up all through the night, and carry your baby around until they fall asleep. But after 6 months, I was exhausted and stressed out myself. So was my baby. I wasn't doing him any favours! Now we have a happy baby and a happy mummy. And there was no vomiting, no brain damage, and we didn't leave our baby to scream at all.

    I can provide you with some information if you are interested in what I have learnt. It is a shame that we can give you links (like the adminstrators are able to) - but you can email me (from any of the business links below) - and I can give you some links so that you can make your own decisions. There is scientific evidence (probably on both sides) so there is no right or wrong way to deal with sleep issues. You just have to work out what you are prepared to do, and how long you are prepared to do it. What is best for your child. Personally I felt that my sleep-deprived child was in worse condition prior to sleep school techniques. Everyone has remarked about his happier state since being there.

    this is from one of the sites I can provide you:
    Sleep problems in infants and postnatal depression in mothers are common experiences in Australian families. Previous research has shown that 36-46% of parents of infants aged 6-12 months report a problem with their infant's sleep, and up to 15% of mothers experience postnatal depression in the 12 months following the birth of their baby.

  10. #10

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    I just wanted to point out & stress the importance of recogniseing the tired signs. As Jodie said in the above post, once you figure that out things fall into place. What ever form of settling you use. The key is doing it before they are overtired.

  11. #11

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    Personally I am unconfortable with cc but we did use a combo of the settle in bed, feed to sleep and rock to sleep techniques with Flynn before about 5 months (so no one method, just what felt right at that particular moment. He has always been easy to get to sleep (to put it into perspective, he is a really calm kid - the sort who ddidn't mind being dressed and undressed even as a newborn) but lately hard to KEEP asleep fo we again use a mixed "technique" of a bit of letting him cry for a minute or so while we stand at the door gently telling him to sleep, cuddles, feeds to sleep and patting while in the cot - once again, whatever seems to work for him at the time.

    And on the vomiting kids - my mother made a rod for her back there! Once when I was about 2 I cried when I didn't get something and got so worked up I vomited. Feeling sorry for me, my parents gave me what I wanted. I then proceeded to vomit whenever I didn't get my own way!!! Appaerently I had them so well trained that by the age of 3 all I had to do was start coughing and gagging that they gave me what I wanted - LOL!!!!

  12. #12
    maggie Guest

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    thx guys for your responses. Jodie i have emailed you.

    Also are tresillian in melbourne and do they do home visits, thanks

  13. #13

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    LOL Rory, just goes to show it can happen either way. That rod had no favorites LOL.

    Both the boys were always fed to sleep & Evan co slept till he was 4. Glenn started co sleeping also. We got them bunk beds & now they cosleep with each other on the bottom (double bed). It was the easiest transition ever! No rods in my back thats for sure. No doubt Isla will be in our bed too. At the moment she is in the cot by our bed. When she is a bit bigger I will be comfortable with her in bed with us. DH is too heavy a sleeper to have little little babies in bed.

  14. #14

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    Likewise Jodie, PND is higher in mums who can't get their baby to sleep with CC'ing (a survey has show CC'ing works for around 8% in the short term and can change with stages) and if it works for you great... but of course you have to use the technique that works for your baby, bearing in mind that being a new mother does require you to get up in the night sometimes as per the example Fiona gave. Little babies do wake up alot and for new mums to think that babes should be conveniently in a routine and sleeping through from an early age is dangerous. Its understandable for them to think this given there is no community or family involved with raising babies anymore and we think we are organised at work so we can organise a baby, surely? We have no support or wisdom, some of our own mothers the same...

    If a baby is so distressed by CC and is vomiting then I do not think it is appropriate for that baby - also it's not recommended under 6 months.

    I had MCHN sleep people come to my home, then went to a day stay, then a mother & baby until for two weeks (at 4/5 months they booked me in), in which my daughter vomited all over herself, I had a panic attack, ended up on meds (from the stressors of CC'ing) and my daughter didn't smile for weeks after. Any solids she ate (including rice cereal) she threw up for months and had no interest in food as she once did. She was a miserable wreck as was I, being sleep school 'failures'. We'd been sent home because they could do no more - it's my biggest regret with her.

    With my son, he's had some shocker times too, but I realised I had to see it out. I have been at the end of my tether, even considered paying a Doula to do some night work as I was getting NO sleep - both in bed or holding him, he screamed from around 1-3am for about two or three weeks, so loud I was worried about the neighbours. But that passed and was a result of teething.

    Also Pinky has seen more mums of CC babies come to her with older children having sleep problems. There is not enough long term study on it, and there has to be a better way... hopefully we'll all know soon.

    Anyway, it's all a part of modern lifestyle, we are stressed, overworked, tired and we need every cent of our sleep to recharge. A baby on average sleeping through is 5 hours, so as a result, our babies are having to step up to the plate of this even though they don't need the huge sleeps we crave.

    A great book I would encourage people to get is called the Wonder Weeks which I have talked about a great deal, there are I think 8 major developmental milestones from birth to 16 months, and its when babies tend to sleep less, fussy with food, more clingy etc - it explains when they are, why, what you can do and has parent contributions so you can see you are not the only one who feels like throwing them out the window! I found it great in that if you understand why its happening, it's less of a stress and you know it's going to pass so expectations and frustrations are not higher than they need be. It has an age timeline full of clouds and suns - tells you when the sunny weeks are and the cloudy weeks. Written by two paeds. Very worthwhile reading, it's spot on.

    Oh and about the links - they are links to my own site, which anyone is able to post. You know that if you want to post a link you can seek permission.
    Last edited by BellyBelly; December 28th, 2006 at 01:30 PM.
    Kelly xx

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    BellyBelly Birth & Early Parenting Immersion - Find out how to have a BETTER, more confident birth experience... guaranteed!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionaJill View Post
    I had a friend who told me about her experience with cc. her & her dh thought that the best way to get their ds to stop waking throght the night fpr a bott;e was to ignor him. the first night they did this, she said was really hard but after an hour or so he stoped crying and went back to sleep. Not once did they go to him. In the morning she went to his room to find that in the time he spent crying himself to sleep he had vomited & poo'd every where (apparently his nappy leaked or came off?) and then had to sleep in his own mess.
    I was shocked that not only they did this but that she told me. she said she felt terrible about it.
    I am still shocked that they not once went and checked him.
    OMG I am so close to crying- whilst I don't agree with CC, I do believe that if it is to be done, then it should be done with a "professional" either with a home visit or at a sleep school to ensure events like this do not happen.

    Maggie - what ever you do please don't rush into it. I did so with Maggie, tried following the Baby Whisperer after watching her show (felt guilty about my "accidental parenting") and after a visit by a nasty MCHN who told me off. Maggie would feed to sleep so I tried to break her of it by holding her and patting her whilst she cried (as I saw on BW and read in her book). I thought it would work like the TV and that the crying sessions would get less and less till she would just put herself to sleep, but it did not happen. In the end after posting on her and getting some wonderful advice, I went back to feeding her to sleep. This time though it did not work the same way, she would not go to sleep. I had to hold her till she cried then feed her. It was awful and still is, I still have horrendous time getting her to sleep, the damage of me trying to push her before both she and I were ready has not gone away.
    Last edited by Astrid; December 28th, 2006 at 07:56 AM.

  16. #16

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    Ahhh found an article I have been looking for for AGES! It's from a UK newspaper...

    Cuddle your child to stability

    All parents know that cuddling children is a vital part of bringing them up.

    But what most parents don't realise is that those cuddles can help children become happy and stable adults, by releasing chemicals in the brain which aid the development of healthy stress-regulating systems.

    Without these systems, it can lead to traits such as alcoholism and depression, according to a new book, The Science Of Parenting (Dorling Kindersley, 16.99).

    Author and children's mental health expert Margot Sunderland says: "Parenting dramatically affects chemicals in the brain, and the effects are long term."

    The child psychotherapist, who drew on more than 800 research studies to write the book, stresses: "There are very clear, proved connections between early stress and depression, alcoholism and all the ills of society in later life."

    One of the key chemicals involved, for example, is the amino acid GABA, an anti-anxiety chemical which can also be found in alcohol.

    "If you don't get your GABA from your parents, you can turn to alcohol and get it there," explains Sunderland.

    High stress is very damaging for the brain's chemical systems, and she warns that controlled crying in babies is a prime example of this.

    A baby's brain hasn't yet developed the capacity to calm itself so it needs its parents' help.

    If this help doesn't come, as in controlled crying, the brain pathways which enable the child to calm itself don't develop.

    "If you're not very careful about comforting them in the first few years of life, you can blight this system," Sutherland warns.

    And it's not something you can remedy in the future, as studies show that children who have had little affection when young will not release oxytocin, a stress-relieving hormone, even if they're cuddled at a later stage.

    Sunderland says affection is particularly important in the first five years of life and that, of course, includes the terrible twos, when she believes parents should comfort toddlers during tantrums.

    This, she explains, is because some tantrums emanate from a child's pain system.

    "If a child had a cut hand, you wouldn't say hush. Distress tantrums need to be taken seriously and children need comforting or they become hard-wired to affection.

    "Some children seem to get away with it fine if there's not enough affection but in adolescence it puts a huge strain on them and they can go into depression and rage."

    And parents also need to reduce their child's stress levels after disciplining them.

    "We're not asking for perfect parents," Sutherland says, "but if you shout or scream, repair it. Don't leave the child in a state of shock pick them up, and bring down the state of alarm.

    10:40am Friday 23rd June 2006
    Kelly xx

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    BellyBelly Birth & Early Parenting Immersion - Find out how to have a BETTER, more confident birth experience... guaranteed!
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  17. #17

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    Maggie, Tresillian I think are in NSW, there are other organisations in Melbourne that offer various approaches to sleep and settling.

    Youe MCHN should be able to provide you with contact info for all of them.

  18. #18

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    I posted on this topic a while back. I was not really a fan of CC myself but did it with DD when she was about 11 months (#2 was due soon after and we were having probs). Now I know a lot of people here are anti CC, but I did get a lot of prof help from Tresillian etc and it worked wonders for us. But having said that DD never got so hysterical that she vomited - I wouldn't have continued if that had happened, but it was probably the hardest 4 days of my life and then click, it all happened well and she now goes to sleep by herself very quickly. But there are times when it comes unstuck when they are sick or teething, but it was an absloute lifesave for me and I got my life back and to be honest, DD is a much happier baby for it.

    I totally support people who hate the concept but please don't critisice me for doing it! What works for some people won't for others and vice versa. Just do what you want to do and respect others choices. I think that the child should definately be a bit older though, I wouldn't even be tempted to try it on a 6 month old.

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