Pitbulls

[Traveller]

We are also making sure he is good with our little baby girl, we put her on his back to ride him all the time, and when he is freshly washed we lay her on him for a few seconds. He is always so good with her. He just lays there quite content.

I have no idea why that statement would scare the bejeebers out of anyone. We have the cutest photos of my dog and my son curled up together asleep, my son using our dog as a pillow. Our dog loves the close human contact and the kids love it too. As long as the parents are there and the dog is not upset then I don't see the problem.

[LimeSlice]

My point was that there is a risk with any animal, And what if the owner is stronger than the pitbull? Does that make it ok to own the dog? As a cat is weaker than us? Someone mentioned no you wouldn't leave your baby unattended outside? That is my point exactly! NOTHING can be trusted! No animal either, we had a chicken a few months ago taken by a large eagle! I would in no way have been able to fight that off!

No, your all right, I am not a cat owner, but I have friends with cats, one whom I see regularly, and DD is attracted to any animal and this cat does not like her at all. Last time we were there, the cat tried scratching at her face and we had to put the cat in another room. Just like you would with an angry dog, put it somewhere else, chain it up?


Beansbeans - Thanks for that link, if I read it correctly, german sheppards have attacked more than pitbull?


PZ - Yes I would defiantly destroy my dog if she was to attack the old woman. I mean to say, what would I immediately do? With a baby in a stroller, no phone, and trying to capture a dog.. what would anyone do? Just scream till somebody came to the rescue? I have not taken our dog for a walk by myself since this incident because I have been scared of what might happen.

The fact you think it is possible for an owner to be stronger than the pitbull in full attack proves to me you have no idea what you are talking about.
And you last statement shows me you need to put some effort in with your own dog to have it trained.

Both of these things are scary.

[Artechim]

Tali, if it were me I would find a dog slipping its collar to chase someone to be a huge warning sign. Would you consider having your dog wear a muzzle when walking it in case next time it goes a bit further than just chasing? Or walking the dog without the pram - we had to give up walking our dog with the pram because it was getting dangerous with leads tangling around the pram when other dogs came running out to attack mine.

[bec293]

Beansbeans - Thanks for that link, if I read it correctly, german sheppards have attacked more than pitbull?

I've just been reading and have to say I read these statistics earlier, I think you will find the numbers of german shepherds far outnumber pitbulls in the population, so the numbers may be higher but the percentage of dogs which attack (by breed) would definitely be higher in pitbulls if you look at it that way.

[Jellybean29]

Here goes my opinion...
Even if you trust your pitbull and havent trained it to attack, it is a natural instinct that could be set off at any moment.
Even if your pitbull is loving and trusting of your family it doesn't mean it will be the same to others, a lot of the pitbull attacks are towards non-family members after all.
Even if you always supervise the problem with the pitbull is the lock jaw, its pretty impossible to stop an attack even if you are right there.

So I would not keep it, no way. As outlined above, too many risks

[Traveller]

Lock jaw is a myth. It's true that pit bulls have very strong jaws, but they do not lock shut. If faced with an attack by a very strong jawed dog then throttling the dog will force it to release.

Also, pit bulls are bred to be very strong, loyal and obedient. Historically this is so that they can be trained to fight other dogs in a ring - they will fight to the death because their master has told them to. It is not a natural instinct to attack any more than it is in any other dog. The problem is that if they do attack the consequences will usually be so much worse.

Just wanted to point that out for clarity of debate.

[Tuesday's Child]

Beansbeans - Thanks for that link, if I read it correctly, german sheppards have attacked more than pitbull?

While it is true that the number of attacks by german shepherds is higher (there are a lot more german shepherds after all), only 0.2% of german shepherds were reported to have attacked, but 1.0% of pitbulls were reported. These stats are for the purebreeds. For crossbreeds, 0.1% of german shepherd crosses and 1.5% of pitbull crosses were reported.

What I found concerning in those stats is that 80% of attacks occurred while the dog was allegedly under control.

[Ginger]

i'm hoping that it becomes illegal to own pit bulls and that owners become chargeable with an offence if their dog attacks and kills- like culpable driving.

[Astrid]

Ok, getting involved now.

As someone who is new to training dogs, but did grow up with them already trained, it seems very few people actually know how to train a dog and specifically the breed they have. We did an awful job with out first boy out of ignorance, yes we loved him, but could have done a better job. We are now making sure we are doing a better job with a new dog and that means asking those who know what to do. Those who we ask are registered dog breeders, one who trains his dogs for trails, along with a full on dog trainer.

We were amazed some of the things we did not know, especially with the whole "place in the pack" stuff. Any dog needs to know its place and whilst we think we are being loving and caring owners, we could be completely confusing the poor dog. For example a dog who sleeps with you will think that is top of the pack. Often what we think are attacks based on protection are attacks based on the dog keeping itself alpha dog. Their placement in the pack needs to be consistent. Yes, love it, but not to the point where it thinks that it is the top dog. With the larger breeds it is just a disaster waiting to happen.

I believe, from my own experience and of what I have read, is that there are a lot of people who think they know what they are doing with dog training, but really don't. Time for owners to be licensed and sit a test before owning a dog.

[Miss.September]

Ok, getting involved now.

As someone who is new to training dogs, but did grow up with them already trained, it seems very few people actually know how to train a dog and specifically the breed they have. We did an awful job with out first boy out of ignorance, yes we loved him, but could have done a better job. We are now making sure we are doing a better job with a new dog and that means asking those who know what to do. Those who we ask are registered dog breeders, one who trains his dogs for trails, along with a full on dog trainer.

We were amazed some of the things we did not know, especially with the whole "place in the pack" stuff. Any dog needs to know its place and whilst we think we are being loving and caring owners, we could be completely confusing the poor dog. For example a dog who sleeps with you will think that is top of the pack. Often what we think are attacks based on protection are attacks based on the dog keeping itself alpha dog. Their placement in the pack needs to be consistent. Yes, love it, but not to the point where it thinks that it is the top dog. With the larger breeds it is just a disaster waiting to happen.

I believe, from my own experience and of what I have read, is that there are a lot of people who think they know what they are doing with dog training, but really don't. Time for owners to be licensed and sit a test before owning a dog.

It's amazing, isn't it, when you learn what to do from a behaviourilst? We felt like the biggest idiots when we first worked with one (pup was three months old) and then when we worked with the second one, we learned so much more. Just a simple thing like letting the dog sit beside you on the couch is interpreted to the dog that he/she is your equal. Same with sleeping on the bed. Same with eating their dinner first. We found the whole learning absolutely fascinating and it will be something we both have with us through all the dogs we will ever be lucky enough to have in our lives.

[Freya]

I have to ditto Astrid too. We had our first two dogs trained by a behaviouralist and the #1 thing she told us is "Love your dog, but remember that it is a DOG and not a CHILD". She said her biggest gripe is that people treat their dogs like humans and thats where the pack mentality gets lost and trouble starts. You can love them and have them be part of the family unit BUT they thrive on being in a pack order, there always has to be an alpha/heirachy. She told us about one couple who hired her because their beloved doberman, who as a cute little dog slept on their bed and had the run of the house etc, when a 50kg grown dog literally took over their bedroom! It would pretty much terrify them with growling and snapping if they even tried to walk in their room. So they were sleeping on their loungeroom floor. Unfortunately they had to put the dog down because it was so far gone the behaviouralist couldnt do anything to help them.

Our bulldog knows she is bottom of the pack order, but now my DH went away for quite a few months she has turned into a little so-and-so, and I am having to work hard to reestablish her pack order mentality that she is still last on the ladder behind myself and the kids. I guess she has figured out her "alpha" is MIA and thinks the order is up for renegotiation.

[RainbowBrite]

I did an animal care course many years ago, I was also working as a untrained vet nurse...and we covered the pack mentality behavioural tips. You need to be 'top dog' especially with a large 'dangerous' breed.
Another big thing for determining where they sit in the pack is eating...the top dog always eats first.
Always see the dog see you eat first and then feed them...that way you are top dog above them.

[~Lashes~]

Reet, i havent read all the replies, and im not going to, but i wanted to give you my opinion on this subject as it is one i am passionate about.

personaly i belive this is as close to kanine racism you can get. it is like saying (for example) all the gangs are of a certain ethnical background therefor we should remove all of the people from that ethnic group to eliminate our gang problems, removing pitbulls WILL NOT STOP DOG ATTACKS!

Yes it is devistating and discusting what happend to this family, Yes ALL dogs have the capability to do this.
I personaly refuse to belive ALL dog attacks that have been deemed as a "Pittbull attack" as such, untill they show the dog in question. over 90% of "pitbull" attacks are not realy pitbulls. (dont quote me, ill come back with actuial stats if anyone wants them, pm me) the only way to prove a dog is APBT, is threw dna testing.

Keep your Baby, Your furbaby is a part of your family, if you are a responsible pet owner they you will allready know the right way to live in harmony with ANY breed of dog and a child. We owned a Red nosed pitbull, Spirit, she was the most loving loyal baby anyone could ask for, everyone who met her INSTANTLY changed there views on the breed. We rescued her, she was chained, beaten had her ears croped and left in a concreet yard with 2 busted ribs and a broken leg she was a loving part of our family, she came to us just befor i had ds2, was there when ds1 lernt to crawl up the stairs, she would run ahead of him, liking his face untill he came back down, she was the biggest sook, would sleep at the end of my feet, befor going to bed she would have to go sniff the boys and make sure they were ok, after a walk she would give everyone at home a big lick, she would check the boys and nudge my if they were upset, she was victom of a council crack down on BSL, (breed speciffic legislation) never attacked anyone, never left out unattended, nothing, she was unfairly destroyed simply because of her breed so the counsil could look like they were cracking down. my kids were devistated, they still 2 years on talk about her, they tell the girls the fond memories they have (granted they were 2&3 so only have little memories)

sorry i have rambled, but do not get rid of your baby, if you are responsible as a owner you will know your dog, its temperment, and how to live as a family.
pitbulls get singled out because of the power they have in there bite.

[Jennifer13]

Wwwwwhaaat? Lashes, with all due respect, that's like saying ppl should be allowed to keep lions and poisonous snakes, because they're allowed to have cats and carpet pythons!

There's four breeds of dogs in Australia that are on the restricted list. Seriously, how hard is it to avoid those four breeds? The laws have been in place for several years now so by rights there shouldn't be any more of these pups available to put ppl in the terrible situation that poor Reet is facing.

I am sorry for the loss of your dog, but this is the exact situation Reet may find herself in if she keeps her dog. And I imagine it is harder the longer you've had your pup and the more your kids have gotten attached.

[Asparagus and Lemons]

What are the four restricted dogs? Just curious

[Astrid]

Well, you could Google that, as most people will need to do that in order to answer you.

[Tinks]

Reet, IMO, as long as you abide by the rules for owning a restricted breed you should be fine to keep your pet. If you can't or don't want to abide by the rules, you shouldn't keep him.

I think (from memory), your dog must be desexed and registered with the council. You must also have escape proof fences and an area the dog can be locked in if you have visitors etc.

[Fleur]

Reet, obviously it's your decision, and it sounds like you've made it. One thing I really do think would be worth you doing though, is reporting the 'breeders' that you got the dog from. Not everyone who obtains a pup from them is going to be as responsible as you, or perhaps even know what they are getting. I think it's really important that that kind of thing is stopped.

Me personally, I would be getting rid of the dog. But I am, thanks to past experiences, wary of dogs anyway, so my POV is somewhat coloured by that.

Speaking in general, not just about your situation (with which I sympathise, and I imagine it would be worrying to you to think that you could lose your pet simply because of a crackdown on these types of dogs too) - in general I am in favour of those restricted breeds being banned altogether. For those of you who say 'it's not the breed, it's the owner' .. you may well be right, but I think the fact has been proven time & again that you can't necessarily trust people to do the right thing. There will always be people who mistreat animals, who breed them for fighting, who cbf putting up a proper enclosure.

Haven't read any of the other posts because I'm lazy lol, but I know quite a few people who are owners of Pitbulls and they all say the same thing - its about how you raise the dog, not the breed.

If you treat the dog badly, if you teach it to attack, if you starve it so you can use it for hunting etc, then all of those things are going to have a negative effect on the dog. If you treat the dog with love, kindness, train it appropriately not to bite etc, then you will end up with a pooch no different in temperament to any other breed.

...

Dogs are as individual as humans, and I highly doubt your little fella would have anywhere near as good a life as he does with you guys because giving away a Pitbull to a responsible owner is not an easy task. Too often they are picked up by people looking to put them in fights (this happened after the cyclone in Townsville, heaps of lost dogs like Mastiffs etc were picked up and put in fights to the death, it was just horrible, and I see you're in FNQ so know that dog fights do happen up this way), or use them irresponsibly for hunting.

The studies seem to show that while pitbulls (and pitbull crosses) are no more likely to bite than any other breed of dog, when they do bite they are statistically MUCH more likely to cause a fatality. I would also assume that they are more likely to cause more serious damage (without death) than most breeds of dogs.

And also on the 'not the breed' subject - this is exactly what makes people so wary of pitbulls & dogs like them - that when they do bite, the results are so horrifying.

Time for owners to be licensed and sit a test before owning a dog.

ITA.