Do Japanese Women Eat Sushi, Do French Women Eat Soft Cheese/Pate

[Shanti]

RE: Sushi
Fish is said to be avoided because of the Mercury levels, not the bacteria. So it wouldn't matter if it was made at home, in a factory or anywhere else.

Actually, the rice is prone to bacteria! so is the seaweed.... yes mercury is in fish but in a very small amount like in one roll? can't see how that would do much harm you'd have to eat quite a few rolls!

Eating fish is so good for pregnant women but again, in moderation. I eat sardines 2 times a week Mmmm yum! Great brain food.

[tutmae]

I make my own sushi at home and generally have avocado and cucumber ones, sometimes with chicken. DH thinks it's ridiculous that there are so many rules for us pg women to follow "just in case". I'm not flout the rules ridiculously, but I'm not super dooper strict either. I think I was craving a ham sandich a few weeks ago andd had one. I think the stress can sometimes be more harmful than letting yourself have a little bit of something "naughty".

[Astrid]

I followed my gut with foods and I found it served me well. One occasion I looked at a whole table of food and just went I can't eat any of that. I was right, everyone else got food poisoning. I was 6 weeks pregnant at the time and very thankful I went with my initial reaction to seeing the food. I still ate what I wanted after that, but always followed my instinct, so sometimes I would have sushi and other times the look of it turned me off.

[MantaRay]

To whoever asked, the thing with runny eggs is salmonella. It can be in any egg that is not totally cooked and the same with chicken. When pg salmonella is harmful to the foetus. It is not a common problem in eggs and it doesn't grow in eggs that are refridgerated. But of course the eggs are stored for a quite a while before you buy them.

I lived in Japan for a year and sushi was usually only eaten on special occassions in the home. And it was really only eaten as often in restaurants as we would here.

[M22]

MR- i am so jealous you lived there

[MantaRay]

It was awesome LSK. I absolutely love it there.

[Tanya]

It would be interesting to know the stats for stillbirth/miscarriage caused by consuming such foods in those countries.

In fact what is the risk % if you didn't change your diet to avoid such foods?

[fionas]

I don't think it's the volume/number of times you eat those foods, it's just that there's a chance of listeria every time you do. Just as there's a chance of listeria even if you're not pregnant. Problem is that listeria is very harmful to the foetus and can cause miscarriage.

The chance of listeria/salmonella is the same whether or not you're pregnant.

I'm sure someone will come in and explain that much better than I just have.

[Bathsheba]

ETA: I hadn't read the whole thread when I posted this.... sorry.

I followed my gut with foods and I found it served me well. One occasion I looked at a whole table of food and just went I can't eat any of that. I was right, everyone else got food poisoning. I was 6 weeks pregnant at the time and very thankful I went with my initial reaction to seeing the food. I still ate what I wanted after that, but always followed my instinct, so sometimes I would have sushi and other times the look of it turned me off.

That's how I was as well with all 3 pregnancies. Sometimes there is false security in blindly following rules and not actually being educated. There is a difference. I think we would all agree that you could follow the food-types rules and still contract listeria or salmonella. It's just like Astrid said: you have to THINK about the hygiene and history of foods as a PRIME consideration as to whether it's safe.

I have worked in commercial kitchens and have training as to safe and hygienic food handling practises. This serves me far better than a food group list. Example: I would and have eaten a soft cheese that I have unwrapped from an air tight packet that was within "used by" dates. I would not eat the same cheese if it was unwrapped at an unknown point in time. My logic also works as Fiona put it... French women still eat brie when pregnant etc.

ETA: Ok... I am considering deleting this post because after reading the whole thread it might be a bit inappropriate to share my thoughts at this point of the discussion...

Um, Possibly one reason why I personally decided to take the risk in eating sushi and soft cheese during my pregnancies was because I don't eat red meat (mammals) and I think that perhaps I may have needed the extra protein...

[buliej]

I'm so happy to know these facts and that people share them on bellybelly - and add their insights and explanations. I would be devastated to find out I ate something that harmed my baby - and it would be worse if that something was known by few/some/many/all but me to carry a risk to a fetus. I under stand applying common sense about food handling as well - but I think this is as an added layer of protection - not "instead of" the foods that have been shown to potentially carry listeria or salmonella, etc. This information is put out there to serve and educate mothers-to-be - I'm thankful for it and for the progress of science generally - both in terms of understanding better what may impede the delivery of a happy and healthy baby..and in my case, hopefully even giving me the ability to have a baby.

Of course, if I read on the internet for the first time about a food being bad and it didn't jive with anything else I knew, I'd look into it/ask my dr or midwife to make sure it wasn't something like an old wives' tale.

Also, Flowerchild - I am glad you mentioned that about pasteurizing - I can easily see thinking that something was pasteurized and therefore not a risk - even though now that I think about it more carefully, what you are saying seems almost obvious - but it wasn't to me!

[spooky]

Sorry if someone has already stated this ( I don't have time to read the whole thread) but unpasturised cheese IS available in Australia now - albeit limited and very expensive! Just keep this is mind if you choose to eat soft or blue cheese (and some hard now) that you can enquire as to wether or not unpasturised milk was used.

Grana and reggie are also made (in Italy so the real stuff) with unpasturised milk, but are then hard cooked (hot) so that is how this one slipped through the system.

It is illegal to make cheese with unpasturised milk in Australia so if this is a concern for you, support the local industry.

[Inanna]

Tootoomany -That's it in a nutshell really This isn't about right or wrong. It's about risks and deciding what you will do about it.

Again - my concern is that women need to know the FACTS in order to make informed choices -

[Janie]

Um, I find it interesting that people assume that Japanese women eat so much sushi they can't go without it (etc etc)! And the French with their cheese..........

I have no idea what they recommend in Japan these days to pregnant mothers, but I have a step mother who is Japanese, and also a chef. She would go weeks without eating sushi, it is not that big a part of daily life. (Goodness knows why, her sushi is devine LOL!). There are soooooo many other parts to Japanese cuisine, as I'm sure there are many other things for French women (who are pg) to eat other than soft cheese.

Fiona, if you're truly interested I can ask her next time we speak to ask her niece in Japan who recently had a baby.

[Bathsheba]

I know that French and Japanese cuisine is a lot more varied than these foods Fiona gave as an example... but I think her sentiments are (correct me if I'm wrong)... are that some cultures have food types and preparation methods that would make you assume their antenatal mortality should be skyhigh... but it doesn't appear to be... so, just in the spirit of staying on topic (and avoiding the debate that we've been having in here)... I wonder if some cultures (besides those in the Developing countries with their poor hygiene)... do the French and Japanese have higher mortality rates due to Listeria and other forms of food poisoning? Say... compared to Australia.

[Toomanytoomany]

Grana and reggie are also made (in Italy so the real stuff) with unpasturised milk, but are then hard cooked (hot) so that is how this one slipped through the system.

It is illegal to make cheese with unpasturised milk in Australia so if this is a concern for you, support the local industry.

I didn't realise that re the bolded cheeses. I'd love to have a go at making cheese one day. Do you know, the rind off a good smelly bit of grana padano makes the absolutely BEST flavouring for a hearty minestrone. Just chuck it in half an hour before serving. Yum.

[Lisa]

I don't understand why some people think that eating things of the 'Don't Eat' list is ok?
Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?
Yeah I know they might be seen as extremes but the information is out there for a reason isn't it? You do these things and the chances are something truly terrible could happen to your unborn child. Their not their for you to follow when you choose, they're there to save you the heartbreak of losing a child, through something you could have easily avoided.
I would hate to think that I lost my child over something so little as eating the wrong thing.
Sorry if I have upset or offended anyone, that was not my intention.

[satya]

On my very first midwife visit I was given a list of what to avoid & I avoided it all (already was before I got there). You kind of do that when you've already had 3 unexplained losses - all too early for the medical profession to bother investigating. By the time I went to that visit I'd seen a number of GP's & two OB's & they'd all verbally given me a list of what to avoid.... they all had slightly different list. The midwife's one was the most thorough and informative.

What I learnt from that leaflet is that many people get listeria & don't know they have it. Why is that? Because usually it's like you have a cold or flu - most people seem to think you'd have symptoms like you've got gastro but that only happens sometimes. You'd only know you had it from a specialised BT.

I also learnt it could lay dormant for up to 70 days in your system before it caused issues so that listeria borne food that you ate 2 months ago which you thought was OK cos you didn't get the runs could still be sitting there when you give birth. Likely result for bubs - stillbirth.

Anyways, yes I'm sure they do eat those things in those countries but I reckon they also have higher levels of stillbirth caused by listeria. It would probably be almost impossible to compare statistics but I reckon that's what the result would be. A lot of earlier losses could be caused by it too, but as the great majority of losses don't get investigated we will never know the exact figures.

The danger was only discovered in the 80's. That's why our mothers and grandmothers scoff at those of us who avoid such foods.

I constantly get shocked by women who think the risk of listeria has lessened after the first tri. Wrong. Probably far more dangerous in the third tri cos if you do have listeria in your system when bub is on it's way out (and remember that you may not know you have it) the result could be dire.

It's not easy avoiding the list of risky foods but it can be done. I'm sure it's far easier to deal with avoiding a few foods than it is to deal with a late loss cos of listeria.

[Mumma2three]

It's not ridiculous as in they shouldn't tell us..! It's ridiculous as in Im a foodie and I hate being restricted!!! Just as long as they don't add Macca's burgers to the list Im happy (it's the only time I indulge in them, sorry bubs)!!