Reply With QuoteThe other night we went out for our work Christmas party and one of the pg women was eating raw oysters, i thought the other pg woman there was going to have a heart attack in front of me LOL
i think many people do get all uptight over food!
HI
I just read this thread and thought mmm my sister and her husband should read and then they may stop expecting everyone to follow the rules....
Im a nurse and i knew that it was a 'blanket' type rule with the listeria thing and that cheeses are all pasturized before consumption here in australia. BUt when i was pregnant this time last year ... god forbid i had a cooked fresh prawn and a bit of brie and both my sister (who was pregnant) and her husband totally had a heart attack and couldnt believe 'as a nurse i could eat such things' I just replied with you do your thing and ill do mine. Mind you my sister was knocking back the champers and i had none! So yes im with whoever said if you eat in moderation and eat things that are fresh and havent been siiting outside in the sun for hours etc etc you should be fine.
That women who sadly lost her bub at 31wks ... i think that was terrible how the medical staff said 'oh it must have been a listeria thing... ' Why cant they get the bub delivered, do the test first, and then if it is a bacteria infection (food related) then tell the mother....
BTW my Alistair delivered at 37 weeks from LMP was absolutely fine....and i did have wine on occassions as well! But obviously didnt get smashed !
BubNo.2
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The other night we went out for our work Christmas party and one of the pg women was eating raw oysters, i thought the other pg woman there was going to have a heart attack in front of me LOL
I haven't read all of the posts yet but feel really compelled to reply to what I have read!
Listeria poisoning in pregnancy exists - it isn't some trick of the authorities to make eating choices difficult for pregnant women.
It is not a fallacy - having witnessed deaths of babies inutero from listeria and having contact with 2 other women who have lost their beloved babies thru this bacteria - let me assure you of this reality.
It is YOUR choice what you eat when you are pregnant. A likely outcome if you contract Listeria is the death of your baby inutero. So, be informed, make an decision based on the knowledge that we have.
Is it likely that you will contract listeria if you do not follow the guidelines? It's not likely but you are more likely to than someone who does eat "safely".
Listeria is found frequently in soft serve ice cream (even Maccas), soft cheeses like brie, fetta and camembert, rice that has been cooked, stored and cooled. Pre made salads. 6 out of 10 fridges randomly tested on an current affair show (cannot remember which one) had listeria present in the salads & other foods contained in the fridges.
Should you be paranoid? NO! As I have said before if you are sensible it's highly unlikely you will contract listeria. Wash salads well before preparing. Do not store uncooked rice in your fridge for later use. Wash your hands well etc etc.
Your body your choice but for those that think these are "rules" and restrictions put upon you by the pregnancy police - politely I ask you to think again. There were unexplained still births through the millenia - now all stillborn babies and their Mamas are tested for listeria as it's a known cause.
It's great if you have a "healthy and developmentally normal" child and ate "at risk" foods. Again clearly you most likely did not come in contact with listeria contamination during pregnancy if you had a live baby. The most likely outcome of Listeria contamination is foetal death - not developmental delays...
There are many women who have lost babies due to listeria and other reasons that now have a way to be avoided.
Is avoidance of certain foods for 9 months really such a drama??? I have been pregnant 12 times and frankly saw it as just what I did to give my baby the best chance - not a ball and chain.
Listeria loves a cool environment - refrigeration DOES NOT kill listeria. Heat does. Pasteurization heats the food & would kill the listeria at the point of pasteruization (if it were contaminated) but then the listeria bacteria can grow in the food once it is cooled in refrigeration.. Listeria favours foods with a certain ph.
Listeria does not distinguish between pateruized and unpasteurized food.
I agree each to their own - but be informed - fully informed and educated then make your decision.
I kinda think it's like those stories.... "My great uncle Bob lived to 105 and smoked three packs of ciggies, drank a bottle of bourban a day and ate lard... Yep some people can survive it but doing that makes it more likely that you will run into strife...
I have just read the whole thread...
As Tootoomany said Listeria can be asymptomatic - that is what makes it quite dangerous - you don't necessarily know you have been eating contaminated food.
Someone mentioned "food laying around in the sun". You won't get Listeria from that my loves...But you could get a whole pile of other stuff.
Someone was commenting on hospital staff when Judy lost her baby... This is done for good reason - because stillbirths often occur as a result of asymptomatic listeria contamination. It is not said as a blame thing - it is said as a possibility. Therefore what you have eaten is investigated. Trust me you want to know all possibilities when it is you wanting answers - I know I did. I was tested rigorously for Listeria after all of my losses. Contracted early Listeria can cause miscarriage. I am not sure how Jude felt about this being investigated - but for me it at least gave me a possibility.
It is now well documented that there is no 'safe" consumption of alcohol during pregnancy. Again, as TTM said - it's up to you if you want to take those chances and those risks. I feel tho it's important to state that it is known tht there is a risk attatched - however small that may seem to some.
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Pregnant life would be so much easier if the Ob's or M/W's gave us a list of what was safe & what wasn't.
I often want a hotdog & think, well if it were that bad the Ob would say so
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Deb that is so true. At that time you want to know why your baby has died when everything seems to be ok. You want to know there is a reason for it even if it is something you ate, at least it is a reason and not a big unknown.
I know down here in Hobart at your very first OB visit we get a list of listeria prone foods. plus you can also go online to any search engine and type in listeria and pregnancy and you can get a list from any of those sites.
thank you Deb.
hugs
Jude
Storm that would be considered an unsafe food - unless it was absolutely piping hot - but its also a risk for food poisoning. Pregnant women (as they are immunosuppressed) are at greater risk of food poisoning from varying bacterium.
An obs would say: It's not recommended that you eat take out - unless it's fresh, piping hot and hasn't been sitting in bain maries.
The Food Standards Authority has a very informative website that is readily accessible.
You're welcome Jude...
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I luuuuuurve natural oysters but noooo way would i eat one whilst PG.
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I too love oysters.A great time of year for all that luverly seafood but alas not for me. Its still not a risk Im willing to take. A few mouthfuls of something "forbidden" for the possibility of losing our precious babies. NOT worth it
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Apart from listeria, eating shellfish, especially in third tri, CAN be an allergy risk. Having a DD who is allergic, I did alot of research, and some professionals say, eating the food in third tri can cause allergies. So I am now off all seafood and nuts!! (and eggs when poss).
As for the listeria, I eat most things accidentally!! Even yesterday we had lunch at my dads following chrissy dinner the night before. It was only on the way home I realised i'd eaten the turkey and ham cold the next day. Nothing I could do then... and I also had a small glass of champa's and wine at the dinner. I just do my best and won't eat or drink something if I feel it's not right. But when I do I don't beat myself up, I think everyone eats something on accident.
It does seem ridiculous though that each time Im pregnant something new is added to the "can't eat" list.
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I'm not sure I understand why it's ridiculous. Research is done, findings are made and people are informed of risk. We eat more and more processed and refined and convenience foods that sometimes travels great distances. It stands to reason that as science keeps up with our lifestyles , the risks that accompany us will be identified along the way. It would be nice if they would quantify the risks in a bit more of a sophisticated manner, however.
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I don't understand why some people think that eating things of the 'Don't Eat' list is ok?
Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?
Yeah I know they might be seen as extremes but the information is out there for a reason isn't it? You do these things and the chances are something truly terrible could happen to your unborn child. Their not their for you to follow when you choose, they're there to save you the heartbreak of losing a child, through something you could have easily avoided.
I would hate to think that I lost my child over something so little as eating the wrong thing.
Sorry if I have upset or offended anyone, that was not my intention.
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On my very first midwife visit I was given a list of what to avoid & I avoided it all (already was before I got there). You kind of do that when you've already had 3 unexplained losses - all too early for the medical profession to bother investigating. By the time I went to that visit I'd seen a number of GP's & two OB's & they'd all verbally given me a list of what to avoid.... they all had slightly different list. The midwife's one was the most thorough and informative.
What I learnt from that leaflet is that many people get listeria & don't know they have it. Why is that? Because usually it's like you have a cold or flu - most people seem to think you'd have symptoms like you've got gastro but that only happens sometimes. You'd only know you had it from a specialised BT.
I also learnt it could lay dormant for up to 70 days in your system before it caused issues so that listeria borne food that you ate 2 months ago which you thought was OK cos you didn't get the runs could still be sitting there when you give birth. Likely result for bubs - stillbirth.
Anyways, yes I'm sure they do eat those things in those countries but I reckon they also have higher levels of stillbirth caused by listeria. It would probably be almost impossible to compare statistics but I reckon that's what the result would be. A lot of earlier losses could be caused by it too, but as the great majority of losses don't get investigated we will never know the exact figures.
The danger was only discovered in the 80's. That's why our mothers and grandmothers scoff at those of us who avoid such foods.
I constantly get shocked by women who think the risk of listeria has lessened after the first tri. Wrong. Probably far more dangerous in the third tri cos if you do have listeria in your system when bub is on it's way out (and remember that you may not know you have it) the result could be dire.
It's not easy avoiding the list of risky foods but it can be done. I'm sure it's far easier to deal with avoiding a few foods than it is to deal with a late loss cos of listeria.
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It's not ridiculous as in they shouldn't tell us..! It's ridiculous as in Im a foodie and I hate being restricted!!! Just as long as they don't add Macca's burgers to the list Im happy (it's the only time I indulge in them, sorry bubs)!!
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I think it is quite easy to avoid those type of foods! The issue is more so dealing with wants or desires isn't it.It's not easy avoiding the list of risky foods but it can be done. I'm sure it's far easier to deal with avoiding a few foods than it is to deal with a late loss cos of listeria.
Registered User
I haven't read all of the posts yet but feel really compelled to reply to what I have read!
Listeria poisoning in pregnancy exists - it isn't some trick of the authorities to make eating choices difficult for pregnant women.
It is not a fallacy - having witnessed deaths of babies inutero from listeria and having contact with 2 other women who have lost their beloved babies thru this bacteria - let me assure you of this reality.
It is YOUR choice what you eat when you are pregnant. A likely outcome if you contract Listeria is the death of your baby inutero. So, be informed, make an decision based on the knowledge that we have.
Is it likely that you will contract listeria if you do not follow the guidelines? It's not likely but you are more likely to than someone who does eat "safely".
Listeria is found frequently in soft serve ice cream (even Maccas), soft cheeses like brie, fetta and camembert, rice that has been cooked, stored and cooled. Pre made salads. 6 out of 10 fridges randomly tested on an current affair show (cannot remember which one) had listeria present in the salads & other foods contained in the fridges.
Should you be paranoid? NO! As I have said before if you are sensible it's highly unlikely you will contract listeria. Wash salads well before preparing. Do not store uncooked rice in your fridge for later use. Wash your hands well etc etc.
Your body your choice but for those that think these are "rules" and restrictions put upon you by the pregnancy police - politely I ask you to think again. There were unexplained still births through the millenia - now all stillborn babies and their Mamas are tested for listeria as it's a known cause.
It's great if you have a "healthy and developmentally normal" child and ate "at risk" foods. Again clearly you most likely did not come in contact with listeria contamination during pregnancy if you had a live baby. The most likely outcome of Listeria contamination is foetal death - not developmental delays...
There are many women who have lost babies due to listeria and other reasons that now have a way to be avoided.
Is avoidance of certain foods for 9 months really such a drama??? I have been pregnant 12 times and frankly saw it as just what I did to give my baby the best chance - not a ball and chain.
Listeria loves a cool environment - refrigeration DOES NOT kill listeria. Heat does. Pasteurization heats the food & would kill the listeria at the point of pasteruization (if it were contaminated) but then the listeria bacteria can grow in the food once it is cooled in refrigeration.. Listeria favours foods with a certain ph.:yeahthat:
I am pretty shocked that people are saying that it is just a 'blanket rule'. I think if you lost a baby, or knew someone who did that you wouldn't be saying that.
i used to eat all the wrong things, I was young and dumb and didn't understand what Listeria was.
It can be passed through soil. It isn't killed by the cold. ONE bit of deli meat can cause it, so no it's not everything in moderation.
This pregnancy I didn't eat ANYTHING off the no eat list, and it was EASY... I mean I wouldn't think anyting was hard if it meant my baby wouldn't be put at risk. I would live off rice and water.
My friend found out the baby died from Listeria because she had a blood test and her baby had a spinal fluid test thing and both came back as positive.
You can have listeria and just think it's a tummy ache, or gastro.
Do what you will, but I don't think abstaining from some risky foods is hard when it's your babies life you are talking about.
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I think Christmas is going to be hard because the older generation don't seem to think it is important. My MIL does all cold meats for the family meal even though I have told her I can't eat them or the coleslaw. Normally I eat coleslaw, smoked salmon and had ham and tomatoe sandwiches every day but I go without while pg.
One of the small catered Christmas functions we went to the Chef came out and was astounded I knocked back both entrees.. one was deli meats and the other was cold seafood platter. I told him pg women can't eat things like that and why and he was moset put out. He seemd to think because he had put it on the plate it would be ok but where did it come from before he got it all out the packet?
It's not like a lifetime sentence it is only 40 wks of watching what you eat for a healthy baby. You eat other foods that are good for baby so what is so hard about avoiding bad foods.
I think the reason other than eating coleslaw (which back then I didn't know about) for why the Drs thought our stillbirth was Listeria was coz when I got to the hospital that evening I was continuous vomiting for no reason.
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