Do Japanese Women Eat Sushi, Do French Women Eat Soft Cheese/Pate

[fionas]

All the 'rules' about what you can and can't eat when you're pregnant really used to give me the irrits and DP's standard response used to be "yep, it's all rubbish, I bet Japanese women carry on eating sushi and I bet French women carry on eating their brie and pate."

I'm not trying to encourage people to break the 'rules', I'm just curious as to whether people actually know whether that's the case. Anyone been pregnant in those countries and/or is aware of their guidelines?

[Shanti]

It's a good question.

I've avoided ALL sushi and cold meats (ie salami) and soft cheeses/pate.

I think like in Japan, they make their own Sushi in their homes which is fine to do as long as you use proper hygiene you know? Whereas if you buy it outside your home you have no control over who is preparing the food and what happens to it.
Sushi is soooo risky for bacteria.
I wonder however how the Germans etc eat heaps of cold Salami's? they eat things like that daily over there!!! do they make Salami in their house?? maybe they do.

I'm so glad we can eat Jarlsberg cheese (considered a hard cheese) it's so yummy!!

[Visitor3]

Not sure about French and Japanese women but my friend is Italian (living in Melbourne)and she didn't know the "rules" when she was pregnant so for the first 3 months of her pregnancy she HAD to have a salami and cheese sandwich (not toasted). Then she found out the "rules" and she freaked out and went to docs for advice/checkup etc and her baby is fine. Oh and today she told me she ate RUNNY eggs! She didn't even know about the runny egg thing until I told her TODAY and her son is 3 AND A HALF ! She's also got a 7 month old daughter who is also perfect.

I don't know? Sometimes I think we can be overinformed you know?

[danniellabella]

I think it's wise to be careful, but by the same token, many of the "rules" weren't around when our mothers and grandmothers were pregnant and most of us turned out just fine! I don't think it's necessary to be anal about the "do's and don't's). I've heard that by eating some of the things that are normally considered "no no's" it can actually help avoid a child getting allergies to things. For example, I saw something the other day that a new study has found that by eating things like nuts during pregnancy and introducing small amounts from the age of 4 months instead of waiting until a child is 5 years old it decreases the risk of allergy. However, I'm not a doctor and I think that every mother and mother to be needs to make informed choices for themselves and their child. What is ok for some is not ok for others.

[Ginger]

my friend who is greek constantly ate fetta when pg. she said she just couldn't avoid it, and for the record, her dd is fine.
what's the runny egg thing? i've been eating runny eggs!

[Kaydee]

Yes, it's wise to be careful - but i find "these days" people are too obsessive about this issue and the actual stress of analysing everything you eat can be more harm than what you put in your mouth.

I avoided soft cheese, raw egg, penuts and a couple of othere things. I live in Germany and i love salami - I only had it on rare occasions throughout my pregnancy as I was aware it was to be avoided.

[Lisa]

I think it's wise to be careful, but by the same token, many of the "rules" weren't around when our mothers and grandmothers were pregnant and most of us turned out just fine!

This is true to some extent, but there were loads and loads of unexplained stillbirths that would now most likely be attributed to listeria.

I know for me, I just didn't think the risks were worth it. As much as I wanted to eat cold meats, brie cheese and pate, the health of my baby was on my mind constantly so it kinda turned me off those foods because of that.

[Visitor8]

I know someone who lost a baby in pregnancy from Listeria.
With my first 2, I thought it was just all rubbish and I still continued eating like i would normally, this included cold meats and soft cheese. The boys were fine thank God.
Then I met my friend, she told me about her son, it broke my heart and this time I was careful.
I think at the end of the day you do what you want, but to me now that I know what happens, can happen, has happened, I don't think it is worth the risk for a peice of ham or a bit of kabana.

[maz]

I wonder however how the Germans etc eat heaps of cold Salami's? they eat things like that daily over there!!! do they make Salami in their house?? maybe they do.

Metwaurst baby...not salami and the answer is yes

we also have a dish called tata and (please do not read if you have a weak stomach) is raw mince that has onion, raw eggs and spices in it eaten smeared over bread. Its eaten all the time..pg or not..along with Limburger cheese

I ate all the worng things when I was pg with Nikolaus and Vyolett (normal children) and all the right things with Wilhelm and Mateauz (special needs children).......so I think its the luck of the draw

[Laranna]

I bet Japanese women carry on eating sushi and I bet French women carry on eating their brie and pate."

I'm not trying to encourage people to break the 'rules', I'm just curious as to whether people actually know whether that's the case. Anyone been pregnant in those countries and/or is aware of their guidelines?

fiona, I haven't been pregnant in those countries (although I did fall pregnant while travelling around Europe ) but my theory is that those foods are likely to be more a part of the daily diet for women in those countries than they are here, so their bodies would be more tolerant of those foods?

[paradise lost]

When i worked in epidemiology (2003) i read that because poor nutrition has been demonstrated to be a contributing factor or cause of pre-eclampsia and eclampsia it is considered unwise to tell a woman whose main source of protein is soft cheese or fish sushi not to eat it. In the UK or AUS where a woman would probably not be eating those foods regularly or relying on them to be a main source of protein telling her to avoid them would be much safer - the risk of food poisoning would probably be greater than that of poor-nutrition-related-PE.

Flowerchild i was devastated by your words and in tears for some time. I don't know what to do but re-state my position.

That's not "Truth" - other women who lost babies might NOT believe that and might feel they WOULD have their baby if they eaten or behaved differently, and i'm not judging them. Everyone has to live with their own feelings following a loss.

Clearly you were hurt by my words, which was not at all my intention, i was not directing my beliefs at anyone in particular; i was merely sharing them, as is usual on forums of this nature. I did not mention listeria in my previous post, i was talking about my personal beliefs about the Fates of my babies and how their loss made me think and feel about foods and their safety or not. Rest assured i was devastated by your attack, which sadly it seems was absolutely your intention. I'm truly sorry for your losses and the pain you have endured. I hope the way in which you handle it every day allows you peace, as my ways of handling it have allowed me in some small measure.

Bx

[mountain mummy]

Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?

No, but people still do it .... I have many friends who continued to smoke throughout pregnancy, purely because of the belief that their baby will be smaller to birth ... WITHOUT taking into consideration the health risks to both mother and child. But that is off the topic

Fiona - I remember reading somewhere a couple of years ago that the foetal mortality rate in Japan was high (and for the life of me can't find the study now!) but I don't think there were any attributions to listeria ... but it does make you wonder doesn't it?

I know many years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, I wondered about the sushi - I had eaten sushi at least 2-3 times a week for many years before falling pregnant - and I thought "well what do Japanese women eat when they are pregnant?" For me though, each time I have been pregnant, I have gone totally off seafood Plus all meats (red, chicken, pork ...) and the last two times vegetables even churned my stomach ... doesn't leave alot to eat does it? lol

[Mumma2three]

Im realising lately (with friends especially, and with forums) that everyone thinks they are right. But that's ok I think, as our opinion is what we think is correct. I think the heartache comes when we try to tell others our opinion, and others don't take the advice, it can feel personal, even though it shouldn't be taken that way.
The fact is we all do what we do,and in 99.9% of cases, we are doing the best that we can. I also believe on a forum, it's not all truth anyway, so I wouldn't take every single post as 100% truth. We can be and/or say whatever we want and no one really knows us.
I think the idea is that we do go off track on posts, it's like conversations, they always end up somewhere different to where they start, that's normal. I would just try not to read into things. The other problem is when writing people can't hear tone, expression etc and often things are taken WAY out of context.
But really I think we just need to understand that deep down, we all think we are pretty right, otherwise we wouldn't have a certain opinion. Not sure if that makes sense, but we are talking about pregnancy/birth, there is no right or wrong in alot of it anyway. When it comes down to it, we are all going to do things differently and the idea of a forum is to share ideas and we can take what we want from what we read. We can also give what has worked/not worked for us and people can choose if they want to try some of what we've said.
saying all that, I choose what I'll eat and what I won't and some of that is on the no list (like a soft serve from macca's, and a glass of wine, and soft cheese that's pasturised) and like Hoobley said, that does not mean I love my child any less. Infact I feel like I love my kids more than anyone ever has in existence (and Im sure alot of other people feel that too). We each have to have our own experience's. xoxo

[Inanna]

I actually don't agree it's about being right and wrong.

It's about personal choice. Comments were made to the vein that it's all a bit over the top and "we never had these rules in our mothers day" etc etc. Comments such as "I ate it and look my baby is alive and developmentally fine".

People look and read and some people just believe opinions. So therefore facts have to be stated.

Listeriosis is a real albiet small risk. It is a "common" cause of stillbirth. It isn't a story with unknown faces...

Yes, I was offended Hoobley - as you were "growing increasingly tired" - your beliefs may be that your babies died and that's just the way it is. However, my babies died because I had an undiagnosed condition. I have made it my lifes work to help and support those that are enduring the same. I have seen cases of stillbirths due to listeriosis and "they were never meant to be" really doesn't cut it in a labour room when there is a silence that can cut the air.

Yes, I am sensitive about this issue (I wave my arms around guiltily) Yes you have pushed my buttons - but my over flowing in box last night told me how hurt others were also...

We all say stuff without thinking. We all say stuff without really understanding how it might be heard. Its all good - my wounds are never kept open - life is too short for that.

It is true that the written word without facial expressions etc can be misinterpreted. Absolutely true. As for it being the truth - well I am different. I live my life authentically and I always make the assumption (unless I am proven otherwise) that others do too.

Posts often get off topic - back to France and Japan - but it's about discussion and learning and peer support.

[Toomanytoomany]

It's not a matter of thinking I'm right, it's a matter of weighing up the scientific evidence that has been presented and deciding what to do about it. It's not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact that some foods and any alcohol consumption represent a risk - how we decide to act on that is a matter of opinion and personal preference.

[Inanna]

Hoobley, I aim every day to not cause harm - be it emotional or physical... It appears that I have caused you pain by my response to your post. I wanted to "speak" to you publicly as to me it's important for others to understand my stance.

I need to be honest - for it is not my responsibility to be dishonest in order to save your pain either. I feel your comments were insensitive because before we speak we need to think of who is hearing our words and how they will be processed. As a speaker that is our responsibility - hence my responsibility is to now be clearer about my response!

If you were responding to a post that was in regard to infertility and that eating pork increases the risk of infertility... In this thread women that were suffering infertility were replying. I came along and said: "well I'm growing increasingly tired of this post and I have suffered from infertility but I still ate pork and look I have a baby... It is my belief that some women just can't have babies..." ( I know your words were different - I am trying to paint the picture) How would that be heard?

Okay all of that would be true and valid - but would it be appropriate? I believe it would not.

Infertility is painful - women don't want it brought up that "some women just can't have babies"... When you are trying to keep the faith - for some women hearing that just sucks... Miscarriage and loss is painful - holding a dead baby in your arms is gut wrenching - having someone tell you "it's just not meant to be" sucks.

As you well know M & L is my "baby" - I protect my "cubs" with a passion - and the other night I responded quickly and swiftly and the way I couched my response clearly hurt you. I was propelled by my inbox, by the fact that I had just spent 2 hours with a woman who had just discovered her 16week old fetus was dead... So we all come from our own place when we respond - however I am responsible for my words and my intent wasn't to harm you. Rather it was to quickly and swiftly point out that your words were heard in a hurtful manner.

I think you B are a legend - I can think something you said was not okay without thinking you are not okay. Does that make sense? I will not and cannot agree with you always - or anyone. But, honestly stating my Truth I believe is important. However, clearly I should have been less quick to respond and kinder in my language.

How do I see the world? Well, I believe that we all come into this life from a past one (unless we are very unucky) and I think we have lessons, I think we have Karma attatched to our Being. I don't think someone is driving our car so to speak. I don't believe in God in the sense that religions do.. I actually do believe "that all is just how it should be". But that does not mean I have no control at all over my path. There are many roads to the end of our journey's - sometimes we choose the tough path and sometimes when we listen to our intuition and our Guidance we can make it a little easier. The lessons are the same - just how we learn them may be different. Had I listened to my intuition I would not have said Goodbye so many times...

There is an Arabic proverb that says something to the effect of: "Trust in Allah - but tie up your horse first"...

So, I hope that this explains myself to you - again you do not need to "reinstate" anything. I can disagree with you without disliking you. They are not the same thing!

So, Hoobley (and anyone else that felt my response was OT) thankyou for the lesson in waiting and not responding quickly! Thankyou for valuing me enough to take time to write to me. Thankyou for being the wonderful BB member of my Village that you are!

Merry Christmas to you Hoobs - and know I send you love and hugs across the waves...

ETA: Sam is right I am approachable!..