Do Japanese Women Eat Sushi, Do French Women Eat Soft Cheese/Pate

[ss_storm]

Very true angelicdragon! Even my DF is like that...he thinks I'm just being "paranoid"..no matter how many times I tell him I would just prefer not to take the risk of something happening that could have been prevented! Then goes on to tell me his mum smoked & drank throughout all 3 of her pregnancies yet all three kids "turned out fine"
Again, I have informed myself of the risks and simply prefer to cut those foods out of my diet for the time being, I can live without, and I would much rather a healthy baby at the end of it all, than sacrificing that chance for a slice of deli ham or a bit of cheese...

[paradise lost]

It is increasingly painful to read this thread.

I have lost two babies. Did it make me more worried about food? No. Sorry. It didn't. I do not believe i killed my babies inadvertently (though if listeria can lie dormant for 70 days NO WOMAN of childbearing age should be eating the "danger" foods) through what i did or thought or ate, but if i DID i believe in higher things than my own fallability. Those babies, heartbreaking as it is, were never going to be my in-arms children. They came to me for a reason, but they were never going to stay, and no amount of restriction or indulgence would have changed it - if it wasn't one thing it would have been another. I don't believe in Fate we can't change, but i also don't believe we can know why our lives look how they do - for ME (i'm not telling anyone else they should feel this way) SOME babies die. Some of them will be my babies. They die for a reason like everyone else. I might not be able to see or understand the reason, it might cause me horrible pain to be separated from my children-who-didn't-come, but i believe that for SOME reason, i am supposed to be, for now.

Some people go through senseless agony and loss to get one baby and others merrily shoot up and snort and mainline their way to a brood of 10 shockingly healthy babies (all removed by child services). There are greater forces at work than food bacterias and vitamin supplements. That's not "Truth" - other women who lost babies might NOT believe that and might feel they WOULD have their baby if they eaten or behaved differently, and i'm not judging them. Everyone has to live with their own feelings following a loss.

It is not fair to say "if you lost a baby you'd be careful". None of us, whatever our suffering, is in a position to tell another how to react to their own pain. I don't know why my first two children died, but the fact that i ate the sushi i craved when i was pregnant with my third doesn't mean i loved or wanted any of my babies less than a woman who decided not to eat what she craved.

Bx

[tutmae]

Very very well said, Hoobley.

[Junglemum]

Listeria does not distinguish between pateruized and unpasteurized food.

But isn't pasturisation a heat treating process there by making products from pasturized milk less likely to contain listeria? (Btw i agree with the rest of your posts FC! Just wondering about this. )

[Phteven]

Pastuerization kills germ that are already there but it doesn't stop new ones from growing.

[~Raven~]

The milk can be pasteurised before making the cheese but then vats and pipes involved in making the cheese can be contaminated.

[bubNo.2]

First of all i have not lost any pregnancy or m/c. However i agree that you cant blame what you eat (if on the non list) that that was the cause of the death of the precious bub!
How about the women who shoot up eat ALL the wrong things and dont give a s h i t about their unborn kids and guess what they have normal helathy children (is not right and im not saying it is ) but i get so damned anoyed with women ( my sister included) that think what they do (eating and drinking wise is correct) should be what everyone pregnant women should do!

[Kaydee]

the fact that i ate the sushi i craved when i was pregnant with my third doesn't mean i loved or wanted any of my babies less than a woman who decided not to eat what she craved.

Well said.

I don't understand why some people think that eating things of the 'Don't Eat' list is ok?
Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?...
Sorry if I have upset or offended anyone, that was not my intention.

Lisa I don't think it is fair to compare cheese to ecstacy or cold meat to smoking....

this thread has really gone off topic hasn't it? I'm sure it wasn't meant to start a debate that isn't necessary. I'm sure we are all aware of the dangers and know the facts, but it ultimately is up to the individual what they decide to eat.

[Junglemum]

Hmmm yeah, makes sense.... so still a risk, but perhaps not as high a risk as cheese made from unpasturized milk. Risk is still a risk though eh?
Thanks.

[bubNo.2]

I still think people take things to literally!!!!

[MantaRay]

There is no need to comment on others' choices. This thread was not started as a debate about people who eat foods that are not recommended. Please stay on topic and be respectful of others' choices when posting.

[christy]

Wow girls... I think everyone needs to take a step back. We need to consider what we choose for ourselves & our babies.

Just because I chose to abstain from soft cheeses, cold meat, and pre packaged salads and most food that has been sitting for too long... doesn't mean that I have the right to judge someone else who chooses those things. I may have profound reasons why I don't... some may have profound reasons why they do....

And because I chose to have a half a wine here or there throughout pregnancy doesn't mean that anyone else has the right to judge me.

Some may chose to control cry their babies once born, and others may chose not too. We all can find evidence on why we make the choices we make... doesn't mean we should judge that other parents aren't "good" parents.

Can I suggest that we stop the judging now? Before it gets out of hand? We can guide and suggest different ways of doing things, but we don't need to tell anyone that what they are doing is "wrong".

It is definately inaccurate to think that pasteurisation will kill all listeria, thats a fact, but it doesn't mean that we can judge or think differently.

FWIW,... I ate sushi that was vegetarian, or cooked.... quite happily. And I ate soft cheeses, if they were cooked on a pizza etc..... that was my way around it

[fionas]

Well, I'm a bit disappointed to be honest. Out of 66 posts, I think (without going back and counting) only about three people have attempted to answer my original question.

[Inanna]

As a member of this forum and a mother who has lost babies - I find your post insulting to the extrememe Hoobley. Actually I haven't read a more insensitive post in my whole Belly Belly involvement.

Your body your choice. It is an absolute fact that women lose babies to listeriosis - I just pray that the women in this forum who have don't read your insensitive remarks. Some women actually KNOW this Hoobley - as it is tested for because it is such a silent killer.

Women can make the choice on what they put into their bodies whilst pregnant. If you choose foods known to be a listeriosis risk - that is the choice you are making for yourself and your baby. You can make a foul sweep and say "babies just die sometimes and I ate sushi & it's fine!
". All good. Some women are unfortunate enough to contract this and their outcomes are not so rosy. What we need is for women to make INFORMED choices not an opinion based on "it was okay for my mother so it's okay for me". Again Uncle Jack downed the bourban and he lived to 105 so we all have the livers to cope ... NOPE!

It seems you imply Hoobley that "fate happens'...

Some babies die my love & sometimes it can be prevented. I know I have lived it.

I certainly hope that women don't read this thread & are tempted to believe that listeriosis is just a myth. It's a risk (albiet very small) but it's a risk.

Some women have pica in pregnancy - their bodies crave wood, oil, dirt - you think that's a good thing??? We can't always trust our bodies. Many many many of us have learnt that our bodies can let us down.

Pop that soft cheese etc etc but do so knowing the risk not denying it...

[Laranna]

I bet Japanese women carry on eating sushi and I bet French women carry on eating their brie and pate."

I'm not trying to encourage people to break the 'rules', I'm just curious as to whether people actually know whether that's the case. Anyone been pregnant in those countries and/or is aware of their guidelines?

fiona, I haven't been pregnant in those countries (although I did fall pregnant while travelling around Europe ) but my theory is that those foods are likely to be more a part of the daily diet for women in those countries than they are here, so their bodies would be more tolerant of those foods?

[paradise lost]

When i worked in epidemiology (2003) i read that because poor nutrition has been demonstrated to be a contributing factor or cause of pre-eclampsia and eclampsia it is considered unwise to tell a woman whose main source of protein is soft cheese or fish sushi not to eat it. In the UK or AUS where a woman would probably not be eating those foods regularly or relying on them to be a main source of protein telling her to avoid them would be much safer - the risk of food poisoning would probably be greater than that of poor-nutrition-related-PE.

Flowerchild i was devastated by your words and in tears for some time. I don't know what to do but re-state my position.

That's not "Truth" - other women who lost babies might NOT believe that and might feel they WOULD have their baby if they eaten or behaved differently, and i'm not judging them. Everyone has to live with their own feelings following a loss.

Clearly you were hurt by my words, which was not at all my intention, i was not directing my beliefs at anyone in particular; i was merely sharing them, as is usual on forums of this nature. I did not mention listeria in my previous post, i was talking about my personal beliefs about the Fates of my babies and how their loss made me think and feel about foods and their safety or not. Rest assured i was devastated by your attack, which sadly it seems was absolutely your intention. I'm truly sorry for your losses and the pain you have endured. I hope the way in which you handle it every day allows you peace, as my ways of handling it have allowed me in some small measure.

Bx

[mountain mummy]

Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?

No, but people still do it .... I have many friends who continued to smoke throughout pregnancy, purely because of the belief that their baby will be smaller to birth ... WITHOUT taking into consideration the health risks to both mother and child. But that is off the topic

Fiona - I remember reading somewhere a couple of years ago that the foetal mortality rate in Japan was high (and for the life of me can't find the study now!) but I don't think there were any attributions to listeria ... but it does make you wonder doesn't it?

I know many years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, I wondered about the sushi - I had eaten sushi at least 2-3 times a week for many years before falling pregnant - and I thought "well what do Japanese women eat when they are pregnant?" For me though, each time I have been pregnant, I have gone totally off seafood Plus all meats (red, chicken, pork ...) and the last two times vegetables even churned my stomach ... doesn't leave alot to eat does it? lol

[Mumma2three]

Im realising lately (with friends especially, and with forums) that everyone thinks they are right. But that's ok I think, as our opinion is what we think is correct. I think the heartache comes when we try to tell others our opinion, and others don't take the advice, it can feel personal, even though it shouldn't be taken that way.
The fact is we all do what we do,and in 99.9% of cases, we are doing the best that we can. I also believe on a forum, it's not all truth anyway, so I wouldn't take every single post as 100% truth. We can be and/or say whatever we want and no one really knows us.
I think the idea is that we do go off track on posts, it's like conversations, they always end up somewhere different to where they start, that's normal. I would just try not to read into things. The other problem is when writing people can't hear tone, expression etc and often things are taken WAY out of context.
But really I think we just need to understand that deep down, we all think we are pretty right, otherwise we wouldn't have a certain opinion. Not sure if that makes sense, but we are talking about pregnancy/birth, there is no right or wrong in alot of it anyway. When it comes down to it, we are all going to do things differently and the idea of a forum is to share ideas and we can take what we want from what we read. We can also give what has worked/not worked for us and people can choose if they want to try some of what we've said.
saying all that, I choose what I'll eat and what I won't and some of that is on the no list (like a soft serve from macca's, and a glass of wine, and soft cheese that's pasturised) and like Hoobley said, that does not mean I love my child any less. Infact I feel like I love my kids more than anyone ever has in existence (and Im sure alot of other people feel that too). We each have to have our own experience's. xoxo