u/s if you had your time again..would you?

[briggsy's girl]

Those of you who have said termination would never be a consideration...have you been in a circumstance were it was an option for health reasons?

No amount of research (in my opinion) can prepare you for what lays ahead with a child with special needs, its something that you learn whilst living it as every child is entirely different.

Maz, the only way i would have a termination would be for a child with anomalies incompatible with life. in other words, a child that would not be able to live on their own (child developing with no cerebrum etc) - for something like Downs, no, not an option.

i personally haven't lived what you are living now, so please don't think i'm trying to negate ANYTHING you are going through - i just personally don't feel that it would make that much difference to me. it's not a religious stand point - it is simply how i feel. i have been raised with family with special needs, been involved in the local developmental schools, mum was the carer of choice (FDC) for kids with special needs. i've seen children with mild issues, to those with very major (unable to communicate, unable to eat on their own). yes, my life would be a hell of a lot different, but i would alter, or even give up, the life i have now for a child with special needs

being able to prepare would make it easier - but as you know, it's often not possible. no matter how many scans and tests you have, you can't diagnose a child on the spectrum before birth. there are no markers on a scan. you can't prepare for that as a parent. yes, you knew there was increased chance after W if you had another son, but there was no way to know. the same with Tank. from what i know of CP, there is no way to diagnose it until after birth.

i dont' hold anything against anyone who makes a decision to not go forth with a pregnancy where DS or similar has been confirmed - it's not something that is easy to face, and there is a lot to take into consideration. Each to their own - i just know for me, i've grown up around adults and children with Downs and similar - it doesn't enter my mind kwim?

[Mildez]

Maz I am mearly saying where I work someone that presents in labour with nil scans have a quick scan to check placental position upon arriving. This is very rare maybe once a year as almost everyone has one scan at some stage. Most of the midwives can operate the mobile ultrasound and see where the placenta is most of the time or simply that its not obstructing the internal os, find the HB and position of the baby. In saying this the only people I have seen not have a scan have also not had any antenatal care.

I myself have been in the position where I was strongly advised to terminate. I was 6weeks and I couldn't terminate without knowing for sure my baby was affected ( I was on multiple medications for a neuro problem and arthritis as well as birth control and three of these medications were known to cause terotegenic effects) if my baby was found to have an abnormality then I might of terminated later on in the pregnancy. As it was my DD did have problems but they were not as severe as we were expecting.

Not sure if the message was intended for me but I didn't say I would not terminate. I myself could see myself terminated for an abnormality such as DS although very unlikely to for a condition that was incompatible with life but thats just me and I have reasons although they are too long and numerous to mention here. I have been in this position (not DS but terotegenic effects) and I seriously considered it. Never again will I feel that I would never do it as I know there was a real possibility of that happening regardless of who you are and what you believe in. Midwifery has taught me that. A mothers love for her child is that great that they want whats best for them and unfortunately sometimes that is to go to heaven away from the pain or suffering that they would have from a life on Earth however short or long that maybe.

[Mildez]

Just read my post it may sound like I am talking about DS as I used that as an example. I think DS people are one of the happiest people I have seen but I didn't mean. I was thinking of conditions like polycystic Kidneys etc where the baby only has a few months/years of life full of medical procedures, dialysis, surgeries, unable to go home and alot of pain. Who would want there child to suffer like that only to pass away at 1 or 2years of age if not younger? As hard as the choice would be to end the pregnancy at say 20weeks it would break my heart over and over again to not beable to take the pain from your child until death takes them. There are many reasons people end a pregnancy and sadly they are not all for maternal request.

[Mildez]

Just read my post it may sound like I am talking about DS as I used that as an example. I think DS people are one of the happiest people I have seen but I didn't mean. I was thinking of conditions like polycystic Kidneys etc where the baby only has a few months/years of life full of medical procedures, dialysis, surgeries, unable to go home and alot of pain. Who would want there child to suffer like that only to pass away at 1 or 2years of age if not younger? As hard as the choice would be to end the pregnancy at say 20weeks it would break my heart over and over again to not beable to take the pain from your child until death takes them. There are many reasons people end a pregnancy and sadly they are not all for maternal request.

[maz]

Sorry if anyone thinks my 'messages' are directed at any person inparticular..they weren't. Im only trying to have a 'conversation' about the matter and maybe help those who are in 2 minds in having a scan or not. maybe allowing them to see both sides and help guide them in their decission.

If my points were to be directed at someone, id start the sentence with that persons name . So please if you read something I have posted....dont take it upon yourself to think its personally for you.

Maybe my old age is coming through and my own personal regrets in the pre birth treatment we had. I know its unchangeable and something I will have to live with now.

I truely find it fasinating that we have such vast views on the topic and its healthy to be able to chat freely about the subject. I read so much about free birth, home birth, breast feeding, I just find it fasinating whilst some are against 'medical' help during birth that some seek it before hand IFYKWIM

[PumpkinZulu]

Like BG, if our baby could not live a good life (I know people with downs and others with intellectual disabilities, one is a very close friend and they live a great life ) then I would consider termination I guess. It would be a hard decision, and I guess we would consider the circumstances and REALLY do our research, because as people have pointed out, you can be advised to terminate, and choose to continue the pg, only to find out that baby was either fine or not as affected as the docs said. But then on the other hand, it might be.

very thought provocing Maz.

[Snacks]

I had just a morph scan with Natty. With Phoebe I had a 'dating' scan and the morph. If I were to have another kid I'd just go with the morph scan.
Even though I'm into natural birth and have aimed for as natural a birth as I could manage both times, I still think a level of medical care is part of responsible parenting. I am not comfortable with free birth, and I don't think I'd be comfortable without the morph scan.
I agree in that I don't think anything can prepare you to look after a kid with special needs. However I would want to have that scan in order to find out if my kid had an issue that'd require surgery. At both my morph scans we have had the heart looked at very closely as our family has a history of congenital heart defects.
So while I personally don't feel the scan is necessary to prepare me for any physical or mental disabilities (as I just don't think I could prepare myself for that eventuality) I would want to know if my baby would require urgent surgical intervention because we have increased likelihood of that and I'd want it without delay.

[black_rose]

I have never had to have a dating scan, with dd1 I was spotting so we avoided scans if possible. Have done the same with the other two. Had to come back a second time for a the heart tests last time as dd2 didn't behave.

It's been reassuring to have the scans this time as bubs isn't very active but I wouldn't seek extra scans.

[LionsandBears]

For me, u/s are about comparing different types of fear. On the one hand, I am not convinced they are safe and research has shown changes to brain function from u/s use. So I'd really like to avoid u/s if I can. I'm not even a fan of doppler checking and once I started feeling bub move, then I told the midwife I don't want it.

On the other hand, I weigh up the anxiety of losing another baby or having a definate problem with bub. This time, we had a scan at 6wks due to spotting, which I was 2 minds of (having been through that before and bub dying later on anyway). I didn't look at the screen and just wanted assurance this bub had a heartbeat and was in the uterus.

Due to my age, I agreed to the 12wk screening scan, though I'm not sure whether I'd do that again or just go straight to an amnio, which gives an actual diagnosis. I found the process very stressful and still don't get a 100% assurance everything is OK.

With the 20wk scan, that's also fear based for me. 1) to check bub is still alive, 2) to check bub is developing properly and 3) to check the position of the placenta & check cervix. I think it's too early to check for vasa praevia, but i asked the OB to do it anyway.

So would I do it again? Due to my age, the 12 wk screen or amnio, yes and probably the 20wk check as well. I don't see the point of earlier scans and from what I understand, later scans are highly inaccurate. I'm hoping not to have another one this pregnancy.

[SarahMc]

I would.

For me it was part of the bonding experience.

i totally agree with Tinks, i loved having U/Ss it was a bonding experience for me and the baby as well as my partner and our child. the more ultrasounds ther better as it keeps u informed on how well ur baby is doing or if there is any propblems

[stepmum1]

No way would I have any ultrasounds done in subsequent pregnancies. What I know now about the dangers and undue stress that they can cause I wouldn't risk it. And as a morph or NT scan wouldn't change anything I don't feel a need to know before the birth.

I don't feel as if I need to invade on the womb to bond or see my baby. If I was meant to my belly would have a window.

I would also would only consent to a pinard as the doppler is 10x stronger then a ultrasound so = more harm to my unborn baby.

[Junglemum]

Id love to see the articles claiming the dangers of ultrasounds and changes in brain function........

There has NEVER been a credible study that concluded that there are dangers and undue stress with ultrasound. The ONLY thing that has been shown to be of some concern is the potential for cells to heat to a potentially dangerous level if an ultrasound beam is focused in one area for too long. Yes there are a few outrageous claims out there, but none proven.

I would have had about 30 ultrasounds with DD1, and just the regular ones with DD2. Both are perfectly fine. I would definitely have an U/S with the next pregnancy. Sure sometimes things are missed or concern is caused unduly. But that is the nature of ultrasound. One particular thing seen CAN INDICATE that there MAY be an issue, it's not 100% but generally worth investigating. Yes this can sometimes cause undue stress and i understand some people may want to avoid that. If my baby had a life threatening defect that needed a team of paeds on standby for the birth then i'd certainly rather be prepared for that situation.

I totally respect womens' decisions not to have ultrasounds if that is what they choose, but i don't believe fueling the wild claims that they are dangerous is helpful though.

[FabFiona]

My OB had an interesting perspective on size scans which I understand can be done later in the pregnancy at around 34 weeks. Her view was that big babies can absolutely be delivered vaginally but when women get told their baby is 'big' it can mess with their heads. Also, with the margin of error it can be completely wrong anyway.

For this pregnancy I had a dating scan as my cycles are all over the place so I had no idea how far along I was, I had the 12 weeks and 20 weeks. Next time I'll probably have the same again unless there are specific medical reasons.

[Arcadia]

I am in two minds.

I loved the 12 wk dating scan and did feel it helped with bonding, but I then found the 20 week scan a bit of overkill even though it was the morph scan. It was useful to 'know' things were ok but I actually had complete confidence they were anyway.

I think it is problematic that so much of pg is managed by outsiders. There is a reason we cannot see into our wombs. I think the babys space should be respected and womens intuition fostered.

So in answer. I think I will get the 20wk morph scan, because I want to make sure I can birth at home- meaning I know the placental position and any possible complications before the labour.

[Pandora]

Id prefer not to have them.
With both my kids I had to have earlier scans than I'd have liked - DS1 @ 11 weeks for threatened miscarriage, DS2 - dating scan @ 6 weeks and a scan at 15 weeks becuase the OB registrar who did my hospital bookng in check couldnt find the heartbeat with a doppler.

If I was going o ahve any more children I think Id opt to only have the morph scan.

[Vixstar]

Yes i had u/s with all pregnancies (last one was on Friday) and yes I would do it all over again.....without hesitation! My reasons....because I wanted too!

xxxx

[*star*]

I have been reading this thread and thinking about it a lot. What I really hate about the scans is their inability to give a concrete answer most of the time. You are left with worry because there is a chance of "XYZ". I chose with DD only to have the 20wk scan and we narrowly avoided a late scan at around 36wks as she was measuring large. I really could have done without the thought that she was big, and the inaccuracy of a scan at that time wouldn't have eased my mind at all, and intervention was all that I could see coming from it.

This time I am going to do the same. Although should something else be picked up I'll be guided by how I feel at the time. I'd like to minimise the number of ultrasounds, too. I know there may not be definitive studies either way, but just using technology to "go in for a look" doesn't sit well with me.

As for termination, without the scans I wouldn't terminate, and although knowledge does affect how I would make a decision, it would need to be a fairly concrete diagnosis for me to decide prior to birth that that was an appropriate action. I don't believe it should be in my hands to take a life away that is still growing.

[Hayden_Sam_Adam]

Maz, i am one who is in 2 minds with DS i had one at 6 weeks as i had NO idea how far along i was and then one at 12 weeks as i was very concerned as i had no idea i was pregnant and when i was (after working it out) 3 weeks preg i had the cervical cancer vaccine so i was very worried had the nuchal scan and all my scans came back as having a healthy baby at 20 weeks i found out he was a healthy baby boy.

well to my surprise i went into labour at 39+2 and he was 10 pounds and at day 3 we found out he had Down syndrome (for those who are usnure Americans put the "s" at the end of Downs and we also dont like the word Downs used, not trying to start another arguement just educating, sorry if it sounds rude)

so as for our next pregnancy we would apparently HAVE to have the scans but we have choosen NOT to, we will have the 20 week scan to see what sex (as DH wants another boy i want a girl) lol. but to us they seem pointless as they couldn properly pick anything up last time so who is to say they would next time round??

and for anyone who thinks there age puts them in a "safe" barrier your WRONG!! i was 19 when i had my son and since having him and meeting other ppl im by far not the only 1.