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thread: Epidural

  1. #19
    Registered User

    Mar 2005
    Brisbane
    353

    Fantastic thread! I have loved reading everyone's suggestions (especially the hanging/suspension one - lol I can't wait to try that out next time!!)

    I just wanted to agree with the comment that a natural birth is very empowering. It sounds like something you expect to see on a natural birth documentary or something but it is sooo true! I had DD without pain relief (well, I did try the gas but only for 5 minutes or so) and I look back on my birth experience and get really excited to do it again. When we have another baby, I will be looking forward to the birth experience. So it's not something to be afrad of. Yes, it hurts - A LOT! But you will be amazed at your ability to cope. It is truly the most awesome experience when you are just listening to your body and your body takes over and knows what to do. I have never felt stronger than I did during birth.
    I know a woman with 4 children who had panic attacks and felt naseous when she thought of the upcoming birth for her 2nd, 3rd and 4th babies and I think that is a really awful side effect of the 'managed' birth epidemic.

    Of course, the pain relief options are fantastic if you need them. If I were you, I would prioritise the pain relief available in the order you would try them. Then if you find you don't cope, you can move through the options in the order you would like to rather than having a particular option forced upon you.

  2. #20
    Registered User

    Apr 2006
    Perth
    4,203

    Like everyone else has said, don't make the decision now. Be as educated as you can be about the options available to you.

    Having said that, I was adamant I wasn't having an epidural - no matter what (unless it was necessary for my DD's safety). Long story short, I was incredibly emotionally drained due to the circumstances of my daughter's birth and physically drained at the length of time. I had been induced at midday on the Tuesday and by 4pm on the Wednesday I was calling for the epidural. Best thing I ever did - it got me through what was a very traumatic labour. As for tearing, my OB gave me a teeny episiotomy (2 stitches).

    Next time I will again try for an epidural-free birth but will take it as it comes.;

  3. #21
    Registered User

    Mar 2007
    415

    Ah, so you're in Canada.....
    I always wonder about Canada and the USA and epidurals. Every baby and maternity show that I have watched from either place seems to see an epidural as the 'first choice' in pain relief, and I've always wondered why.
    Any other pain relief is seen as 'alternative'.
    Is anyone able to shed light on this?
    I wish North America wouldn't rely so much on epidural as an alternative to pain management It's too bad because where I am, epidural is highly recommended by almost every Ob. Also, Canada is still pretty slow on catching up with alternative pain management such as relaxation techniques, music, and etc. I guess having an epidural save a doctor's time since Quebec (where I am) has a shortage on doctors!

  4. #22
    Registered User

    Mar 2007
    415

    Hi Carmen,

    That's great your goal is a vaginal birth and you're thinking of ways to get through it with an intact perineum.

    I'll tell you my honest view of epidurals. I think they've become an accepted, sometimes even routine part of birth in many cultures. As Kirst observed, it's even considered the "first choice" in pain relief. This is not without a down-side tho. With an epidural, you often lose some of your best allies for an easier birth - gravity, mobility, privacy and the chance to get into a birth pool. So when it comes to pushing the baby out, you may end up unable to push very effectively, and less able to get into active, gravity-positive positions to push. This can lead to the need for a ventouse or forceps delivery, which can be quite damaging to the perineum through tearing or episiotomy; or caesarian. So the pros and cons need to be weighed carefully.

    That's the advantage of other pain-management strategies in labour - if you can find other methods to get you through the toughest contractions of late first stage, you may be able to avoid the "cascade of interventions" which can leave you with damage to your body.

    I do think that there are times when the judicious use of an epidural might just help a mother to avoid a caesarian, such as when the baby is in a tricky position. I'm not saying avoid epidurals no matter what. It's just that, as I once heard a wise Obstetrician say, "everything we do has side-effects - there's a down-side to every intervention". No intervention is always going to be superior to intervention, so it's best to use it wisely as a last resort after less invasive techniques have been tried for a while and given a chance to work.

    I think also there's a cultural concept of avoiding pain. In most parts of our lives, avoiding pain & discomfort of any kind is desirable. Pain means something is wrong and it should be numbed and eradicated as much as possible. I think this approach is counter-productive when we take into birth, though. That's because if we try to eradicate or numb labour pain (which is a positive, healthy pain), the pay-off may be even more painful when we're recovering from a surgical birth. Some women even have lasting pain from the needle insertion site in their spine. So another possible approach, rather than seek to avoid labour pain, is to embrace it and go with it - as athletes too - they say, "no pain, no gain" and the pain is associated with effort, exertion and excellent performance. I think labour pain is the same - your body is working supremely well, and if you can go with it like a runner does, rather than try to numb it, stop it or avoid it, by doing the hard yards with that you may be able to damage that might cause you more pain and discomfort when you are recovering.

    I think it would be more encouraging for you if your Ob was saying, "You are a strong healthy woman and you are capable of birthing your baby under your own power - we'll be there only if you really need us" rather than, "you'll probably need an epidural, the pain can be quite bothersome". I think she'd be givng you a clearer picture if she also added that the side-effects of an epidural can also be pretty bothersome for many women. I don't know too many cases where a woman went on to have a normal vaginal birth with an intact perineum after an epidural. For that, an un-numbed body and the ability to choose gravity-positive positions as your instinct guides you, may well be more conducive to your goals.

    There are some awesome doulas (birth attendants) in Canada, I wonder if there are any in your area? They can be a good resource to have with you in the birth room.

    One more thought - many women find giving birth in a pool of water is helpful for avoiding perineal tears.

    I hope all goes really well for you Carmen. It's great that you are arming yourself with knowledge and making plans. Let us know how it all goes. Take care, hun.
    Julie,

    Thank you for such lovely advice. It's really too bad that where I live (Quebec), doulas are not common. Actually, even the idea of midwives, doctors aren't too fond of them. Unlike other Canadian provinces, Quebec works separately in the medical field. So far, to my knowledge, I have not heard any women being able to have a doula/midwife in Quebec. If there's any midwife, apparently, they need to get an acknowledgement from both the Ob and the midwivery association which probably is why there's so little of them to be find in my province. SIGH... I have considered of hiring a doula from other province around my due date, but my Ob didn't seem to like the idea so I dropped it.

    I will do everything to avoid an epidural. Your concept of "no pain, no gain" is very true... every intervention comes with an effect depending how severe. I've been telling myself these past weeks... back in those days, women just give birth naturally without any pain medications, if they could do it for all those years, I am sure, I could do it myself too! I definitely don't want to suffer any side effects from epidural especially if my baby had to be forced out with the help of forceps.... the idea is just not buying!

    Natural is my cup of tea!

  5. #23
    Claire Guest

    Hi Carmen,

    For me an epidural was the beginning of a cascade of intervention that caused a very bad tear. I'd suggest researching all forms of pain relief and making an informed choice and developing strategies to help you whilst you're birthing. Practice breathing techniques, visualisation, stay upright and mobile, keep hydrated and if you want and can, use water as pain relief.

  6. #24
    Registered User

    May 2007
    Brisbane, Australia
    614

    I had gas, pethidine and an epidural in that order. I wasn't sure what I wanted prior to the birth and simply told the midwives when things got a bit unbearable and they suggested things and I just went with the flow. I'm all for an epidural if you're really struggling with the pain, but each to his own....I'd like to try without it but if I need it, I'll have it. It's up to you, not anyone else to decide.

  7. #25
    Registered User

    Jul 2007
    Northern Beaches, Sydney
    266

    Whatever you decide to do Carmen, good luck, and I'm sure that everyone here will respect your decision.

  8. #26
    Registered User

    Nov 2006
    Warburton
    537

    Hi Carmen, I had a chat to some North American doulas who found out about some doulas in Quebec! I think if you called them they might be able to help you get in touch with whoever is nearest to your area. If your obstetrician is against you having extra support that might help you remain calm and confident during your birth, perhaps you might need a different obstetrician? It is your right to choose what you feel will help you and support you best during your birth. You might decide that working with your obstetrician and foregoing the doula is in your best interests; or you might decide that hiring your own doula and choosing a different obstetrician or place of birth will be better for you. Ultimately, do what pleases you - not the obstetrician, because it is you that is in charge of your birth, not the doctor. Good luck with your decision-making and I hope your birth goes really great. Here's the numbers for some of the doulas if you feel like sounding them out:

    In Montreal:
    Chantal Ann Dumas, 514 725-945

    Marie-Josee Carriere, 514 755 6784

    Greta Gammal, 514 965 6096

    Lea Boicel, 514 201 8044

    Stephanie Caron, Ottawa, 613 729 2186

    Kimberley MacKenzie, Montreal, 514 278 8009

  9. #27
    Registered User

    Mar 2007
    415

    Julie,

    Thanks a million for going through the hassles to look for the numbers for me. I definitely will ring them up as you mentioned, it is my choice whom I bring with me when I'm in labour. Never thought that they existed in Montreal.... Youppi! I am so excited, and will let you know how it goes! Thank you so much!

  10. #28
    Life Subscriber

    Jul 2006
    Brisbane
    6,683

    Wow, that's great that Julie has been able to help out with those contacts. I really hope it works out for you. Just think, you could be part of changing attitudes in your part of the world. If you are able to have the birth you want with a doula, then share your experiences with others, maybe it will give more women in Quebec the opportunity to have the births they want too. Welcome to BB, changing the world one birth at a time LOL!!

  11. #29
    Registered User

    Nov 2006
    Warburton
    537

    Carmen, can't wait to hear how you get on talking with the Quebec doulas! Thanks for letting us know how it all goes, we're definitely your birth buddies now!

    Love your motto there, Melanie!
    "BellyBelly, changing the world one birth at a time!"

  12. #30
    Registered User

    Mar 2007
    415

    Julie, Great news! I saw my Ob today and "informed" her that I will be having a doula as a support person. At first, she didn't buy the idea, but we had a long discussion about all the benefits that "I" will get from having one beside me. In the end, she was more open to the idea. She also apologized for showing the discernment because the concept of having a doula was a little intruding since it is so uncommon in Quebec. At last, we came to a good ending... at least both of us don't have to feel offended in any way.

    As for the epidural, although I still have some time to decide, apparently, everything is recorded into the hospital's computer beforehand... that's why, my doctor seems to be pushing me for an answer. I have explained to her the different reasons to why I would not accept the epidural UNLESS it comes to a must, but then again, I will only have to ask for it when I am in labour! She gave me other options for pain relief (other medications), but I have told her that I would rather go without them to start. I got to the book store and bought a few books about alternative pain management. Though I have not heard of them before, I am willing to try everything else before medication as I am aiming for a medication-free delivery. So, from now until my due date, I will read as much as I can and practice some of the techniques!

    I spoke to one of the doulas you listed. They have already directed me to one that is closest to where I am. Next week, I will be meeting her and we will be planning my "birth plan" together. I am so happy that everything worked out just so smoothly. Never thought I would be one of the lucky ones to bring a change into the hospital.

    Melanie, you're right, I could always be the first one to make a difference in the birthing process by requesting a doula which no one thought of! I think most of the time, most people are too intimidated by the doctor's prestige and degree.

    Thanks to all of you girls, I am able to overcome this barrier! Julie... thanks so much for listing out all the contact numbers for the doulas available in my area... I will definitely keep you updated of my situation. In the mean time, like you said, you're all definitely my belly buddies!

  13. #31
    Registered User

    Mar 2005
    Brisbane
    353

    That's fantastic news carmen!!

  14. #32
    Registered User

    Nov 2006
    Warburton
    537

    Great news, Carmen!!! I am so glad there is a doula in your area. And that your Ob has come around to the idea. All the best with planning Your Birth together and for a wonderful Birth Day.

  15. #33
    Registered User

    Jul 2007
    Northern Beaches, Sydney
    266

    Great to hear Carmen! Well done for standing your ground. I think that you're right in saying that people get intimidated by doctors' degrees and prestige.
    You never know, you may have influenced some change in this OBs practice that will make her a more saught after OB??? You sound like you've opened her mind to some 'new' things.
    Good luck. Enjoy your reading.

  16. #34
    ♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
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    Feb 2003
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Australia
    8,982

    What a fantastic result - the internet is such a wonderful tool and resource - what would we do without it! There are doulas all over the world, some places have less than others but you would be surprised where you do find them.

    Also a note on tearing - directed pushing shortens the pushing stage but increases the likelihood of tearing. So go with your body and not direction if you want to reduce the chance of tearing. Directed pushing seems the norm in the US from those Foxtel shows too And yes, a huge percent of US women have epidurals at birth, they showed the stats on one of the birth shows, I think it was somewhere around 75-80% of women have them in the USA. That stat is around the same for first time mothers in Australia having them. But the only clients I have had in the last couple of years who had one was the 3-4 c/s clients (obviously) and one who had a difficult twin birth... so not 80% by far.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    In 2015 I went Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team

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