'Parent volunteer' - Working with Children check??

[nickle730]

I am wondering if anyone knows about the requirements for a 'Working with Children' check for parents who volunteer in primary school classrooms?

My son is in Prep next year and there is a requirement for an aide in the room as one of the children has high level special needs. As there is inadequate funding for the aide for all the hours one is required (the child requires a full-time aide) the current plan is to utilise a 'parent volunteer' for approximately 16 hours per week. The parent who has mentioned that she would be willing to assist is from a different year level. She has only been a part of the school community for 5 weeks and has just moved here from overseas. If an additional staff resource is required in the classroom, I am unhappy that a parent (who is untrained, unqualified and has no experience) will replace a qualified and experienced aide. The mother of the child who requires the aide has stated that this parent does not require an background check as she will be in the classroom under the supervision of the teacher?

I have tried to word this post carefully - I want to make it clear that I do not have any problem with the child being in my son's class (she has been in his kinder class for the past year). My issue is with an appropriate aide not being provided and an unknown, untrained 'volunteer' being used instead (and without any background check!).

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Rainbow_Mumma]

I just had to do my working with children check as i am voulenteering at my daughters school i have the forms in front of me right now by law to voulenteer in a primary school you DO need a working with children check that will check your criminal record for major crimes and sex offences but im not sure if it checks records from overseas or just offences commited within this country

[Traveller]

I'm not sure which state you are in, but I know in Vic all parent volunteers need a working with children check. It is worrying though that a qualified aide is being replaced by a parent who, as experienced as she may be with children, may not have appropriate training with a special needs child. I would be concerned too incase the lack of adequate support results in disruption, or lack of attention, for the rest of the class. Perhaps you should raise this with the school principal before the year starts and see if they are able to reassure you?

[Traveller]

That's a good point Mrs S, when I got the application for a working with childrens check, there was nowhere that checked for a criminal record from Scotland. So whilst this parent will have a check it will only be for Australian issues.

[Kazbah]

Heys nickle,

I am not sure what state you're in, but this is from the victorian government:

Working with Children Check
In 2006, the Victorian Government introduced a new checking system to help protect children under 18 years of age from physical or sexual harm.

The Working with Children (WWC) Check creates a mandatory minimum checking standard across Victoria. The WWC Check helps to keep children safe by preventing those who pose a risk to the safety of children from working with them, in either paid or volunteer work.

If you work or volunteer with children you may need to apply for a WWC Check. Employers, volunteer organisations and agencies must ensure that any of their staff or volunteers who need a WWC Check have applied.

Everybody who requires a WWC Check must have a WWC Check or have applied for one by 30 June 2011.

From this, I would take it that the decision as to whether or not the aide requires a WWC check is not that for the mother of the child to decide, as you have so very correctly stated, there are more than just her child in the room.

Also found this which sorta agrees with the mother of the other child around the being directly supervised, but as she will be working regularly this is void:

Who Needs to Apply
Under the Working with Children Act 2005, only people engaging in ‘child-related work’ must apply for and pass the Working with Children (WWC) Check. Not everyone whose work brings them into contact with children will need to apply for a WWC Check.

You need to apply for and pass the WWC Check if you meet all of the following criteria:

your work or volunteer role involves contact with children in connection with one of the 20 listed child-related occupational fields
you volunteer or do this work on a regular basis
you have direct contact with children under 18 years of age and are not directly supervised
you do not qualify for an exemption from the need for a WWC Check.

Then there's this from the list of 20:

Educational Institutions

Educational institutions for children, specifically:
• State Schools (including all primary, secondary, technical and special State schools)
• Non-Government schools (including all primary, secondary and special non-Government schools)
• TAFE colleges and TAFE Divisions of universities providing VCE and/or Victorian Certificate of Applied Learning (VCAL) subjects
• Some adult education providers providing VCE and/or VCAL subjects
• Other institutions providing children's study or training programs

I would be talking with the teacher / principal and clarifying with them as opposed to the mother(s).

[*Ali*]

I would think that if a parent is working in the school on a regular basis they would need to have a working with children check. I have had parents come along with my class on school excursions as 1 off events, and we have a special stat dec type form they have to sign before they are allowed to attend.

As for the aide time, special needs students are allocated teacher assistant time based on their level of needs, it is VERY VERY VERY difficult to get full time teacher assitant time for a special need students, basically for a student to be allocated a full time assistant, they need to have such a severe disability that they need to be toileted and fed, as well as all of their other needs. I am not sure of the state you are in or the system (ie public, private) but I have recently completed an application for a teachers assistant for a student in my class, and it is a long and lengthy process, and I think (his assistant time was only granted after I started my maternity leave) he was only entitled to 0.6 or the equivalent of 3 days per weeek.

Looking at this from the perspective of being a teacher, It would be better to have a parent in the classroom to assist, than no one at all. A high special needs students who does not have an assistant, takes alot of time away from the learning of other students, it is unfortunate, but that is the way it is. So to have an extra pair of hands is invaluable, believe me I have been in many classrooms with special needs kids (although probably not as high level) and no assitant and it is hard work for everyone.

As a parent I too would like to know who was in the classroom with my children, however I would trust that the teacher would be in the room at all times- as the teacher is the one who has duty of care of the students. I would take any concerns you have to the principal, hopefully the parent who does take on the roll, gets some training or proffessional development to ensure they know what they are doing.

[luna moth]

It depends on the state. In Qld, parents are OK, but grandparents, aunts and uncles need the check. Go figure.

I would be a little apprehensive about it also, but Ali makes some good points about the positives of it. And I guess that if I'd just moved to a new country a few weeks ago and wasn't in a routine yet, I could see how volunteering for that kind of role might help to settle in.

Suggest that the volunteer gets checks - if the person involved has nothing to hide, there won't be any issues.

[AnyDream]

We're in SA, our school requires *every volunteer* to have current police background clearance. Without it, no sausage sizzles, no reading, nothing. I don't know if that's legislated but that's the policy at our school.

[Astrolady]

I am in SA too, and same as Marydean. We can't even be on a council that runs after school without police clearance. Technically any parent that comes into the class to read to their own child in the mornings should have police clearance.

[Lulu]

Looking at this from the perspective of being a teacher, It would be better to have a parent in the classroom to assist, than no one at all. A high special needs students who does not have an assistant, takes alot of time away from the learning of other students, it is unfortunate, but that is the way it is. So to have an extra pair of hands is invaluable, believe me I have been in many classrooms with special needs kids (although probably not as high level) and no assitant and it is hard work for everyone.

As a parent as a high needs child, currently going through the insane guidelines of funding, I can totally agree. There are many classroom aides at DS's school and each one is amazing in their understanding and generosity of spirit. I have found that many of these aides have special needs children themselves, have completed a short course (and police checks etc) to give back iykwim?

Do you know exactly how 'unqualified' this woman is? I TOTALLY understand your concerns - but it might just be a matter of her volunteering her time as she gets her quals. I would imagine she is attracted to this position because she would like to help kids.....and in a world that most parents can't spare the time to help in the classroom, ANY help is wonderful.

I think it would be a better idea that the school sends a letter home to the parents formally introducing this woman rather that just sticking her in the classroom and leaving you all to wonder!

[mrsmac]

Every parent who does anything at our school has to do a Working with children check- even if its man a stall at the fete.
I agree with Ali- its very very hard to get a trained teachers aid even in a paid position- I have an untrained paid one 2 hours per week. It would be awesome to have one FT even untrained as they free up the teacher to help the rest of the class. I would be pleased if it was my child's class.

[Lulu]

Ok - firstly I'm not an expert on the world so I'm just going to give you my experience and knowledge thus far.

1) - If you swapped roles with the mother of this child I can assure you that you would be fighting just as hard as she. I imagine that paying private school fees would maybe make this woman feel she should get her moneys worth (I know that probably sounds wrong I can expand if you need - but maybe tomorrow!)
2) I also bet the school started off with the best intentions in regard to funding aides - but the govt changes the goal posts on this sort of funding often. So at the start the school may have felt they could offer this but have been stuffed up a bit.
3) Private schools get 7 - 13% of aide funding, compared to what public schools get.
4) no matter how much funding any school gets it will never cover the expenses of an aide, no matter what level.
5) I hear the school when they say they cannot cater to this child - because they can't access the level of funding needed.


On the experience...as long as the person aiding the child understands them, it should be ok. Lots of times they just need distraction or a quiet place to regroup. I can't speak for everyone though

My son is the highest need level. YEP. But you wouldn't know it thanks to the aides at his school. He has plenty of friends, is a barrel of laughs and all the teachers love him to death. Proud mummy moment, I can't help it All he needs is time out when he might freak out.

I don't know the ins and outs but you seem very caught in the middle. Maybe you could let this mother know that in a different school her child would be funded for a full time aide....and there would be not so much need for the constant meetings and bunfights?

bbl - happy to clarify any points...in the morning!

[Floweryfields]

Sounds like you are in a very difficult situation....doesn't it stink that in the 'education revolution' still we are having issues like these?


I was at our local state prep just this week, the children were using lovely pearlesent paint, and there was a lady volunteering who was the teacher there many year back - her comment was this is just about the last of this paint we bought when I was here, they don't get funding for such extravegences now that we are under the new prep system.....

[jaspen]

i realise it is not relevant to this particular topic but in qld the direct parents do not need blue cards to volunteer but i don't know whether there is a max time limit of volunteering to meet this requirement

[Santosha]

Thought this may interest you. The school and individuals involved may be up for some serious consequences if the WWC law is not followed. We were warned at work that we must have our card on us at all times as if there was an inspection or audit, we may be fined ourselves and the organisation may face penalties.

ORGANISATION PENALTIES
If a Working with Children (WWC) Check is required, you must not engage, or continue to engage, a person in ‘child-related work’ if the person does not have a current Assessment Notice. This does not apply to employees or volunteers who have validly applied for a WWC Check and the application has not been finally decided or to employees or volunteers who are exempt under the Working with Children Act 2005.
Penalty: Natural person: two years imprisonment, a fine of 240 penalty units* or both

As an agency, you must not offer the services of a person to undertake ‘child-related work’ if the person does not have a current Assessment Notice if one is required. This does not apply to people who have applied for a WWC Check and the application has not been finally decided or to people who are exempt under the Working with Children Act 2005.
Penalty: Natural person: two years imprisonment, a fine of 240 penalty units* or both

INDIVIDUALS
If you do not hold a current assessment notice, you must not undertake 'child-related work' unless:
- you are exempt under the Act
or
- your child-related occupational field has not yet been phased in or
- you have applied for a WWC Check and your application has not been finally decided.
Penalty:Two years imprisonment, a fine of 240 penalty units, or both

I didn't track down the info on 'penalty units' but I understand that it amounts to about a $12,000 fine. OUCH.
Given the application fee is only $77, I think it'd be well worth them getting it done.

As for experience and qualification... well, I think that comes down to the individual. Yes, of course training can be extremely useful, but I've come across some highly qualified aides and therapists that just don't 'get' the child or the needs of the situation, and some unqualified individuals that were just born to it, and were BRILLIANT.

Sounds like a tricky situation. All the best.

[nickle730]

Thank you again for the info. A $12K fine or 2 years imprisonment? Yep, I'd get that check done! It is concerning that there is no overseas check for non-Australian citizens, that doesn't seem right.

Lulu, the mother is aware that the funding is much better in the state system. She has told me that the state school system is funded by the state government and the private school system by the federal government? She has told me that the funding is far better in the state system, but I was not aware that the difference is quite so huge!! That just seems all shades of wrong... but that is a whole other can of worms! The mother has stated that she wants her younger child to be educated in the private system as that is the system that they have chosen for their elder daughter and it is more 'practical' for the younger daughter to be at the same school ie. one school pick up and drop off. The mother has also stated that she wants her children both in the same school because the elder daughter can then 'look out for' the younger daughter. I do get that, I expect my kids to look out for each other as well, but the expectations on the elder daughter are pretty high. Again, a totally different can of worms and really none of my business.

I hear what you are saying about fighting as hard as this mother is if my child had the needs that her child does. I have tried to imagine being in her position, but you can't truly walk in someone else's shoes. The mother can be aggressive and manipulative. I don't know whether she behaves that way because it is her personality or because she is dealing with a bloody hard situation. I try not to judge her behaviour and I think it is for the same reason that no one has complained when rules have been bent and policies ignored thus far. I have no desire to make life harder for this family.

I feel kind of scuzzy even saying it, but as you raised the issue of private school fees... my DH and I made the decision to educate our kids in the private system. We are fortunate to be able to afford it, although it is not without sacrifice. The school pays above award wages to it's staff in order to attract the 'best and brightest'. If an additional staff resource is required in the room, I expect the school to provide the 'best and brightest' available. It's one of the things we're paying for. The mother has always stated that the aide in the classroom is not for her child. She has said that the aide is to assist the classroom teacher with the entire class as that class presents a bigger workload for the teacher due to her child being a part of it. Semantics perhaps, but it is certainly true that the full time aide this year (it is a full time kinder program) works with all the children. She usually takes the child with additional needs and a small group of others and they work together under the aide's direction. It is not possible to integrate a child on their own! The children, being young, make no distinction between the aide and the other classroom teachers. They are all adults in a position of responsibility.

Given all of that, I do feel that I have some right to an opinion on whether it is appropriate to have a volunteer in the room to take the place of an aide. My child will deal directly with any adult in the room. If that adult is in a position of responsibility, I expect them to have some training and qualifications and I certainly expect that their background has been checked as required by law. The particular lady who has offered to assist seems nice enough (I've only known her a few weeks). When she interacts with the child (whilst waiting for the older siblings to finish school) SHE... TENDS... TO... SPEAK... VERY... LOUDLY... AND... SLOWLY... to her. From the brief time I have seen her with the child she is certainly caring and kind but doesn't appear to have any understanding or insight into the child's needs. Perhaps she would learn? I don't want my child to think that the appropriate way to speak to a person with an intellectual disability is to speak to them like the are deaf and dumb. It is so important that the aide sets the correct example in her own dealings with the child (and in correcting the behaviour of the other children toward her) and I don't know that someone without any training can be expected to do that.

I truly feel conflicted and unsure what to do. I think I might be hoping that you all convince me to do nothing! I certainly take it on board when poster's have said that having a volunteer is better than nothing. The thing is, if there is 'nothing' my understanding is that the child will have to leave the school. And that makes me feel terrible. But I think that all of the children, mine and the child with additional needs included, deserve better than a stop-gap halfway measure?

Keep the advice coming... I'm sorry it's long again, it's like I have two parts of my brain arguing with each other!

[Lulu]

On the funding - it's given to the school to see fit to distribute. The mother is right on this one. I'm not sure if she is right about the state/federal funding - but I know I'm right about the % levels. I had to take DS out of his beautiful independent school (yep, paid a fair level of fees too) because they couldn't afford the aide and the little funding is also 5000 times harder to get in non-govt. I wasn't happy but it wasn't the schools fault. I felt pretty sad my educational choice was taken away. Worms worms worms!

Whoa on the SPEAKING VERY SLOWLY. It doesn't show much understanding but maybe she needs time to get to know the child (*cough - who talks to anyone like that though?). I wouldn't call that a good example for the other children either. I suppose I'm lucky that each and every aide that DS deals with is like some sort of mystic angel to me. Every, single one of them appear to understand is needs very quickly....but then again he has Aspergers and these kids are pretty much everywhere...in every single class in every single school in the universe.

It seems the school is bending over backwards to accomodate this woman...maybe due to her aggression who knows. I'm not sure what I would do myself. Do you think it will really negatively impact on the other students? It's far from a perfect situation, but if the school can't cater to her, they just can't. That won't be your call in the end though anyway. Although as a parent I feel you have the right to enquire about what's going on.

[Just Me]

I have been a teacher in a special education unit and to be honest, most of it is learning on the job. I went in with very little experience with kids with disabilities and I learned while I was there from working with the kids, from the other staff and some training that I attended. Most of the teacher aides that I have worked with also start out with little to no experience but a keen interest to learn. I am not really sure that paying someone necessarily makes them qualified to work with kids with a disability. I did 4 years of teacher training and to be honest, still walked into my classroom on my first day and that is when the real learning began. The parent will have the teacher to support them and give advice and training and I think if she is willing, she could be a very valuable asset. My hat goes off to her a little bit, it can be quite an intense job and she is offering to do it for free.

I have read through your posts and I am trying to figure out what the biggest issue for you is because she is most likely going to get her working with children check approved and that is not going to be an issue - I don't really think that this is what you are actually concerned about (if I was to be completely honest ). It sounds a bit to me like you don't want the parent in the classroom and you are trying to find excuses for her not to be there because you feel your child will be disadvantaged and you are paying for an education for your child to make sure they are not - I am not trying to be offensive in saying that, so please don't be offended. I am just trying to understand what it is you want out of this situation because unless you can articulate what it is that you want, it will be very hard for you to work out which solutions you will be satisfied with.

I think there are some things about that seem to be out of everyone's control - there is no funding for a full time teacher aide for this child and the school probably doesn't have the funds to provide it so alternative solutions need to worked out. I guess you could try putting yourself in the shoes of this child's parent and thinking about what you would want if it was your child and how you want the school to handle it.

From the perspective of the parent volunteer - if she has just moved here from overseas, the school community might be one of her only social outlets and she might just be trying to make herself a part of the community. Volunteer work is a great way to get involved. I thought that most people coming into our country were screened for criminal offenses before moving here so I would assume (maybe wrongly?) that she has a clean criminal record since she is allowed to be here in the first place.

Please don't take my post as judgemental. I am not trying to be harsh, I am trying to understand the issues for you. I kind of get the impression that even if her criminal history is clean, you still have a lot of other concerns and I am just trying to understand those. I think you are right to question what is happening - if you have concerns it is good to get answers but in many of these situtions it is about a good fit and it takes time to work out whether it is working for everyone. Even if the person was a paid, experienced person it doesn't necessarily mean they will gel will with the teacher, the classroom environment, the student with special needs and the other kids. I think it is one of those things where they have to give it a go and see how it works out. There are so many dynamics and variables, it is impossible to know.

That's my 2c anyway