Thank you again for the info. A $12K fine or 2 years imprisonment? Yep, I'd get that check done! It is concerning that there is no overseas check for non-Australian citizens, that doesn't seem right.
Lulu, the mother is aware that the funding is much better in the state system. She has told me that the state school system is funded by the state government and the private school system by the federal government? She has told me that the funding is far better in the state system, but I was not aware that the difference is quite so huge!! That just seems all shades of wrong... but that is a whole other can of worms! The mother has stated that she wants her younger child to be educated in the private system as that is the system that they have chosen for their elder daughter and it is more 'practical' for the younger daughter to be at the same school ie. one school pick up and drop off. The mother has also stated that she wants her children both in the same school because the elder daughter can then 'look out for' the younger daughter. I do get that, I expect my kids to look out for each other as well, but the expectations on the elder daughter are pretty high. Again, a totally different can of worms and really none of my business.
I hear what you are saying about fighting as hard as this mother is if my child had the needs that her child does. I have tried to imagine being in her position, but you can't truly walk in someone else's shoes. The mother can be aggressive and manipulative. I don't know whether she behaves that way because it is her personality or because she is dealing with a bloody hard situation. I try not to judge her behaviour and I think it is for the same reason that no one has complained when rules have been bent and policies ignored thus far. I have no desire to make life harder for this family.
I feel kind of scuzzy even saying it, but as you raised the issue of private school fees... my DH and I made the decision to educate our kids in the private system. We are fortunate to be able to afford it, although it is not without sacrifice. The school pays above award wages to it's staff in order to attract the 'best and brightest'. If an additional staff resource is required in the room, I expect the school to provide the 'best and brightest' available. It's one of the things we're paying for. The mother has always stated that the aide in the classroom is not for her child. She has said that the aide is to assist the classroom teacher with the entire class as that class presents a bigger workload for the teacher due to her child being a part of it. Semantics perhaps, but it is certainly true that the full time aide this year (it is a full time kinder program) works with all the children. She usually takes the child with additional needs and a small group of others and they work together under the aide's direction. It is not possible to integrate a child on their own! The children, being young, make no distinction between the aide and the other classroom teachers. They are all adults in a position of responsibility.
Given all of that, I do feel that I have some right to an opinion on whether it is appropriate to have a volunteer in the room to take the place of an aide. My child will deal directly with any adult in the room. If that adult is in a position of responsibility, I expect them to have some training and qualifications and I certainly expect that their background has been checked as required by law. The particular lady who has offered to assist seems nice enough (I've only known her a few weeks). When she interacts with the child (whilst waiting for the older siblings to finish school) SHE... TENDS... TO... SPEAK... VERY... LOUDLY... AND... SLOWLY... to her. From the brief time I have seen her with the child she is certainly caring and kind but doesn't appear to have any understanding or insight into the child's needs. Perhaps she would learn? I don't want my child to think that the appropriate way to speak to a person with an intellectual disability is to speak to them like the are deaf and dumb. It is so important that the aide sets the correct example in her own dealings with the child (and in correcting the behaviour of the other children toward her) and I don't know that someone without any training can be expected to do that.
I truly feel conflicted and unsure what to do. I think I might be hoping that you all convince me to do nothing! I certainly take it on board when poster's have said that having a volunteer is better than nothing. The thing is, if there is 'nothing' my understanding is that the child will have to leave the school. And that makes me feel terrible. But I think that all of the children, mine and the child with additional needs included, deserve better than a stop-gap halfway measure?
Keep the advice coming... I'm sorry it's long again, it's like I have two parts of my brain arguing with each other!
On the funding - it's given to the school to see fit to distribute. The mother is right on this one. I'm not sure if she is right about the state/federal funding - but I know I'm right about the % levels. I had to take DS out of his beautiful independent school (yep, paid a fair level of fees too) because they couldn't afford the aide and the little funding is also 5000 times harder to get in non-govt. I wasn't happy but it wasn't the schools fault. I felt pretty sad my educational choice was taken away. Worms worms worms!
Whoa on the SPEAKING VERY SLOWLY. It doesn't show much understanding but maybe she needs time to get to know the child (*cough - who talks to anyone like that though?). I wouldn't call that a good example for the other children either. I suppose I'm lucky that each and every aide that DS deals with is like some sort of mystic angel to me. Every, single one of them appear to understand is needs very quickly....but then again he has Aspergers and these kids are pretty much everywhere...in every single class in every single school in the universe.
It seems the school is bending over backwards to accomodate this woman...maybe due to her aggression who knows. I'm not sure what I would do myself. Do you think it will really negatively impact on the other students? It's far from a perfect situation, but if the school can't cater to her, they just can't. That won't be your call in the end though anyway. Although as a parent I feel you have the right to enquire about what's going on.
I have been a teacher in a special education unit and to be honest, most of it is learning on the job. I went in with very little experience with kids with disabilities and I learned while I was there from working with the kids, from the other staff and some training that I attended. Most of the teacher aides that I have worked with also start out with little to no experience but a keen interest to learn. I am not really sure that paying someone necessarily makes them qualified to work with kids with a disability. I did 4 years of teacher training and to be honest, still walked into my classroom on my first day and that is when the real learning began. The parent will have the teacher to support them and give advice and training and I think if she is willing, she could be a very valuable asset. My hat goes off to her a little bit, it can be quite an intense job and she is offering to do it for free.
I have read through your posts and I am trying to figure out what the biggest issue for you is because she is most likely going to get her working with children check approved and that is not going to be an issue - I don't really think that this is what you are actually concerned about (if I was to be completely honest ). It sounds a bit to me like you don't want the parent in the classroom and you are trying to find excuses for her not to be there because you feel your child will be disadvantaged and you are paying for an education for your child to make sure they are not - I am not trying to be offensive in saying that, so please don't be offended. I am just trying to understand what it is you want out of this situation because unless you can articulate what it is that you want, it will be very hard for you to work out which solutions you will be satisfied with.
I think there are some things about that seem to be out of everyone's control - there is no funding for a full time teacher aide for this child and the school probably doesn't have the funds to provide it so alternative solutions need to worked out. I guess you could try putting yourself in the shoes of this child's parent and thinking about what you would want if it was your child and how you want the school to handle it.
From the perspective of the parent volunteer - if she has just moved here from overseas, the school community might be one of her only social outlets and she might just be trying to make herself a part of the community. Volunteer work is a great way to get involved. I thought that most people coming into our country were screened for criminal offenses before moving here so I would assume (maybe wrongly?) that she has a clean criminal record since she is allowed to be here in the first place.
Please don't take my post as judgemental. I am not trying to be harsh, I am trying to understand the issues for you. I kind of get the impression that even if her criminal history is clean, you still have a lot of other concerns and I am just trying to understand those. I think you are right to question what is happening - if you have concerns it is good to get answers but in many of these situtions it is about a good fit and it takes time to work out whether it is working for everyone. Even if the person was a paid, experienced person it doesn't necessarily mean they will gel will with the teacher, the classroom environment, the student with special needs and the other kids. I think it is one of those things where they have to give it a go and see how it works out. There are so many dynamics and variables, it is impossible to know.
JustMe, you are quite correct, I'm not entirely sure of my biggest issue either! Perhaps that's why my post's are so long and I feel like my brain is split in two!
I had not considered your point that the mother from overseas will have undergone a criminal history check as part of her visa application (I think so, anyway?). I agree, the school community is a great social outlet for someone who has recently moved here from overseas. I also admire her willingness to volunteer her time to assist although, as I previously stated, I'm not sure she knew what she was getting into in terms of the time commitment! I was present when she said 'Oh, I could help out' and the mother has run with it and now has her scheduled for several hours a day! Anyway, I assume that the mother who volunteered can speak up for herself if the commitment is too great.
Perhaps one of this issues is that we have been spoilt this year with a full time aide who is excellent. She is amazing with the child who has additional needs and also with all of the other children. The idea of losing this aide half time and replacing her with a volunteer who doesn't appear to have much insight into the child's needs is... disappointing. I guess I would like the school to cough up for the aide full time next year. But I understand why that is not viable. But then, that's where the fees come into it... we're all paying expensive fees, if the aide is required I expect the school to provide it. But I understand the funding is not available. And around and around it goes!!
I hear what you are saying about paying an aide not ensuring that they are the best person to fill the position and by even offering her time the volunteer has shown that she possesses both an interest and an empathy, which is a good place to start. But the way she deals with the child (loud and slow) concerns me. Whilst I recognise that she will have the classroom teacher available for guidance, the classroom teacher is not qualified in special education either. The school has never had a student before with such a high level of additional needs and I know from the mother of the child that many of the primary staff members have expressed concern at whether they are able to cater adequately to the child's needs. I fear it will be a case of the blind leading the blind.
If I am honest, my other issue is that I am tired of being manipulated by the mother of the child with additional needs. I have known her for three years and in that time I have nodded and smiled and tried to understand her motivation, although I don't think I can truly understand what it is like for her. When I questioned having an aide replaced with a volunteer her response was 'well, that's how it's gonna be, so you'll all just have to deal with it' (yes, this was her literal response, I believe word for word!). Part of me thinks 'no, my child and I have rights here too'... and part of me thinks 'bloody hell, this must be incredibly hard for you, I'm not going to make it any harder'. I am aware that my own motivation, if I do decide to act on this matter, shouldn't be that the mother pi**ed me off!!
I do honestly believe that my child will be affected. I assume that the volunteer, like the aide, will work with small groups including my child. It is important to me that the aide sets the correct example for my child. For the kids, there is no distinction between the aide and the teaching staff and if an adult will be in the classroom 'teaching' my child (as the aide does) I want to know that the adult knows what they are doing and they are qualified for the job! The aide takes the children and is not supervised by any other staff. I have always assumed that this is permissible and that direct supervision is not required because the aide is qualified and has all the appropriate checks? I have always been happy for the aide to teach my child unsupervised as she is excellent. Is this how it is supposed to work? I have never questioned before whether an aide can work unsupervised with the children? In doing this, the aide manages not only the behaviour of the child with additional needs, but also the behaviour of all of the children in the group, including mine. I am happy for the aide to be responsible for managing my kid at school, not so happy for a volunteer to teach my kid what is ok and what is not. How can a volunteer know what is acceptable and what isn't (in general not just in relation to one child) and how can that volunteer be expected to know how to appropriately manage and direct the behaviour of the kids? She is a volunteer, not a teacher, not an aide.
In the middle of all of this is a lovely little girl who seems to have settled reasonably well into the group. Initially, many of the kids were frightened of the child as her behaviour can be quite confronting. Now, the rest of the kids have, for the most part, accepted her as one of their peers and are keen to assist her. Most of the children are kind and caring and are inclusive of the child in their learning and their play. I believe this is partly due to the nature of the children, but also due to the example set by the aide and the way in which she has taught the kids to interact with a child who is very obviously different to themselves. Perhaps the kids could train the volunteer!
No offense taken, JustMe. I'm still not entirely clear on why this situation sits so uncomfortably with me. One of the things I have realised over the course of typing this post is that I need to clarify exactly what role the volunteer will take in the classroom - how much responsibility she will have and whether she will work with the children independently. I'm not sure how to do that when the school has not formally informed the parents of the plan? It is very valuable for me to hear from Lulu as a parent of a child with additional needs and from yourself and others as educator's working with kids. I'm also very interested in how other parent's would feel and whether they would be concerned. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
i dont know if someone's already mentioned this, but maybe you can say to her something along the lines of "it'll be much easier for me to help you get everyone on board with this if she has a WWC check, as alot of the other parents don't know anything about her, and nor do i, and it'll put everyone's mind at ease" that way you're getting that check done, and she still gets her aide.
i understand about the fact that she hasnt worked with children, but maybe she has had experience with kids with special needs? or perhaps the lady knows this child and the mother thinks she is suitable? either way, it seems like you dont have a lot of choice in the situation, but if you can do something to make YOU and the OTHER parents feel safer, and let her think shes getting her own way, it'll be (somewhat) win-win?
Nickle - I am so glad that you didn't take offense at my post - I was trying to word it carefully but you know how these things come across online sometimes. It sounds like an incredibly stressful situation and I am starting to understand more why you are concerned. I guess my big concern about what you wrote initially is that if you fight for her to have the check done and it comes back fine, and it still doesn't sit well with you then it just looks a bit petty. If you are clear about why you are concerned and can raise those issues with the school all at once, then it looks a lot more valid, if that makes sense.
I understand your concern about the other mum - I think it is hard when people decide something that is going to affect everyone and you get told to just lump it. I think one thing about lots of parents of kids with special needs is that they are used to having to fight every step of the way. I am not defending her because I think your point of view is valid, but I think her aggressiveness may come out of having to do a lot of fighting on behalf of her child.
I also think the loud and slow yelling is a problem - is the volunteer mum ESL at all? The teacher may also have an issue working with that going on in her classroom (I know I would). Noise begets noise - if you have an adult talking loudly it encourages the other kids to talk loudly to compete with it and I could see that causing a lot of issues for the teacher. I am surprised the little girl's mum is happy with her being spoken to like that too - it would bother me.
I didn't want to read what you wrote and not reply a little though. I think you are right to be concerned and to raise the issues with the school but it is good for your point of view to be heard if you know what you are worried about and can express it to the school so that solutions can be discussed. How you handle this with them will also give them an impression of you so you need to be careful how you approach it.
My greatest concern with them using a volunteer would be whether that person would be in for the long haul if you know what I mean - it could be a very stressful position, if they aren't being paid they may not be as likely to stick it out as if they were. In the case of the child, I think it would prove quite disruptive for them to be having a change of person should they not last the distance.
oooh what a tricky situation! I feel your pain. Will have to be quick but wanted to say a few things - hope they help.
-Re: what Ausgirl has said - absolutely right. I think vol mum has no idea what she's gotten herself in for, and I can't see her lasting the year. Why would you spend that much time helping a child that's not your own for free? I mean, hat off to her for volunteering, but as you mentioned before it seems to have snowballed from a "I could help out" to suddenly this woman is working part-time for free! The situation is unsustainable in the long term.
-I always think in these situations that I don't need to make a fuss because chances are someone else will do it before me, and do it louder! I can't see all the other parents being ok with it and I'm sure once the year starts it will be pretty quickly noticed what is going on and someone will speak up.
-re: WWCC. Not your problem, let it go (don't mean that to sound harsh). Not a mountain to die on here, KWIM? It's not the deal breaker. Plus, if you kick up a fuss you don't want volunteer mum thinking you think she's dodgy.
-you're not an awful person for feeling the way you do. I would feel the same. Just as the other mother's job is to fight for her child, yours is to fight for yours, because no-one else is going to do it.
-do teacher's aids actually have training? I have a feeling in NSW they have very little or nil. I don't mean any disrespect to teacher's aids - they do a great job.
-overall I think the whole situation will be self-resolving without you having to kick up a fuss, KWIM?
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). It sounds a bit to me like you don't want the parent in the classroom and you are trying to find excuses for her not to be there because you feel your child will be disadvantaged and you are paying for an education for your child to make sure they are not - I am not trying to be offensive in saying that, so please don't be offended. I am just trying to understand what it is you want out of this situation because unless you can articulate what it is that you want, it will be very hard for you to work out which solutions you will be satisfied with. 
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