Am i a prude for thinking its inappropriate?

[fionas]

I'm a hypocrite.

I used to wear thigh-skimming skirts in my late teens, the shorter the better and that was seen as very risque at the time. We're talking late 80s here. It wasn't to garner sexual attention, it was to rebel. If I'd wanted male attention, I would have grown my hair beyond the number 2 cut I had at the time

At the time, I was in the minority hence why I'm calling it rebellion.

I don't see skimpy clothes these days as rebellion, I see them as mainstream - just like tattoos used to be a rebellious statement and now is mainstream. I also think that they are part of the sexualisation of children. Hanging around my teenage DSD and her friends was eye-openingly appalling. A very large topic of conversation for them would be who was pretty, who was not, who was hot, who was not. Nauseating. If there's anything that makes me feel like an old fart, it's music videos. SO overtly sexual. Compare them to vids from the 80s/90s - the latter are so tame by comparison.

So yeah, in my best Little Britain voice, "don't like it."

[nickle730]

Rouge, I agree with much that you say. And I certainly don't excuse men who can't control their sexual impulses. But I do recognise that we live in a society which has sexualised butts and boobs. Should men be able to control their impulses? Absolutely! But if they all did, there would be no sexual assaults or molestations and sadly that is not the case. And so knowing this, don't we have a responsibility to put our daughter's at least risk by ensuring they dress in a manner that doesn't suggest that they are more sexually mature than they are?

As for the pot and the kettle... I think a mature woman who understands her own sexuality and the sexualisation of the female body who chooses to dress in clothes which show her body... well, I think that is her choice. A woman in her twenties will more likely understand the sexual nature of the attention skimpy clothing may bring her and will more likely be able to recognise and deal with it. Honestly, if one of those men who ogled my niece approached her, she would have no idea how to respond. She probably (hopefully!) wouldn't recognise a sexually suggestive come on, particularly from someone older than a teenaged boy. I worry that if a man approached her somewhere public and with people around, she would feel the need to be polite to an adult and messages would become rather twisted and confused!

I know that every generation has been the same, that teenaged girls have always been eager to grow up. But as the mother of two girls and the aunt of two more, I want them to be safe and to enjoy their childhood for as long as possible (yes, like every generation of parent's before me!).

ETA Yes, fionas, I DON'T LIKE IT!!!

[NaeNae]

I've not read all the posts, just going by the first few ...

I think when you reach certain points in your life your attitude adjusts.

When I was 16+ I was super fit and had an amazingly sculpted body, abs to boot, toned arms, great legs and I proudly wore clothes that revealed my physique. I didn't care if people made judgements, I looked good so I wore what I wanted because I could and most of those who judged me, frankly, couldn't measure up! I wore the same types of clothes until my body "softened"

When I look at teens today, my first reaction is prudish "geez love put some clothes on" then I remember that I did the same at that age.

Now my upbringing was sheltered, my parents were super strict ... BUT they supplied me the clothes, I didn't work as a teen. When I did start working I learnt the hard way about appropriate dressing.

I think the kids dressing like mini tramps is terrible but its the parents who buy the clothes for the younger ones, you can hardly blame unemployed tweens for their fashion sense!

Older teens , well I think its part and parcel of their exploring their youthfulness and sexuality. I don't agree with it but who am I to judge when I did the same.

oh yeah

nudity and sexualness (is that a word) should be seen as two different things

Nae x x

[Rouge]

I get what you are saying. And I too don't like it. Whether its on a toddler, a tween, teen or twenty year old. And regardless of understanding ones sexuality the fact is the reason behind why a teen does it or why a twenty year old does it is no different. They just rationalise it with maturity. Which IMO is bollocks. They are both wanting to impress other men and are made to believe that more skin = hot. It's even been said in this thread. To get a man to love you does not mean you need to pretty much tell him what you would look like naked without actually being naked. My point is the focus on women being objects starts with our generation and it's sadly more the women who teach it to the next generation.

[Miss E]

Ok, I'm going to go against the grain here and say I don't really see it as a big issue.

From where I sit it is just another form of teenage experimentation. It is one way that these girls are learning about and exploring their own sexuality, they are curious to see the effect that they can and do have on the opposite sex (and probably old fuddy duddies like us) and learning how to use it. Now, I'm not saying that it's a good thing, but in my eyes it just another way they are learning about the world and the way it works.

If I have an issue with anything related to this topic, it is grown men who outwardly drool over these young girls - in my opinion that is inappropriate and what we as a society should focus on. We should be teaching young boys about respect for women etc and condemning the men who believe it is ok to objectify young girls and women rather than telling girls to dress differently.

And as one poster said, even if as parents you don't let them out of the house wearing those clothes, you can't stop them changing into them once they leave. And if you refuse to buy them those sort of clothes, there's nothing to stop them cutting their jeans or borrowing their friends clothes. Ultimately, if a teenage girl decides she wants to experiment in this way, you're not going to stop her. And if she's anything like I was as a teenager, the more you try to stop her, the further she will push the boundaries. What you can do is empower her. Help her to see that the sort of attention it creates isn't necessarily the attention you want to be getting from men. But let her reach that conclusion herself.

JMO

[AnyDream]

This is an area that I often have a bit of an internal debate about, in regards to my own teenage daughter. At what point does her need for self expression and autonomy cancel out my need to impose my moral or cultural sensitivities onto her? Is it an age based thing? Does it depend on her maturity - and what is maturity anyway? I suspect a lot of what happens during the decade between 10 and 20 is about removing "parent" as the main frame of reference and substituting "society/peers/social mores" as that reference point. Hence the need to adopt the "uniform" of one's peers (learning about social acceptability) or your own "unique" dress sense (learning about individuation away from the group) rather than what your mum thinks you should be wearing.

I also think we do girls a disservice when we see skimpy clothing and straight away assume it's about "flaunting" or sexuality. It may be about dressing in a way that is acceptable to her group of friends, or it may even be an asexual act of power ("I'll dress however I ****ing want to, thanks"). Really, it's not fair (and has never been fair) that boys/men can strip to the waist when the weather is hot but as girls/women we are supposed to keep our lust-inducing flesh carefully behind a screen of clothing. WTF is that about?

BUT by the same token, girls/young women wearing skimpy clothing *has* been sexualised in recent times to a much greater degree than in the past - in advertising, in music videos, online, on the telly, etc. To a certain degree this inculturates or invites boys/young men to adopt a more objectified (and even predatory) view of women, and in some social circles more so than others (I'm thinking now of some of the choicer conversations overheard in a military setting). It's specifically those individuals (rather than every male on the planet) whose gaze I'm interested in shielding my teenaged daughter from. Not because she's not entitled to flaunt her emerging sexuality in ways that she feels comfortable with (because she is), but because she's not yet armed to deal with the reality of sexual objectification.

AND finally, let's not forget that young women are still subject to a whole load of pressure to meet various cultural ideals, whether it's a certain degree of hairlessness, or a certain degree of not-arguing-back-ness, or a certain level of attractiveness, and mashed up in there still, all these years down the track, is the one about "nice girls" being the ones you want to take home to mum and dad. And "nice" girls don't dress a certain way, do they?? I can't blame any young woman for wanting to bust out of that, but I also don't want anyone judging my daughter badly over an extra inch of flesh.

[nickle730]

Great post, MD.

[Rouge]

I see what you are saying. But I guess in my experiences I see more women objectifying themselves than I do men. And baring skin shouldn't be a problem.

This reminds me of a male teacher we had in high school. On hot days we would all have water fights. We were a small school and everyone was close. So boys and girls were friends. Not much sexualisation went on. Not by other schools standards anyway. The male teacher called a meeting with all the girls asking us not to wear lacy bras to school when if we were going to throw water at each other. The boys were disgusted as were us girls. They didn't throw water on us to see our bras. And we certainly didn't choose sexy bras for wet t shirt competitions. We were all having innocent fun. Yet it was tainted by one perverted man. Who was led by another prudish teacher. Who funnily enough dressed in short skirts and low cut tops to school and you could see her bra. Without her shirt being wet! She was the one who instigated the whole thing because she was worried how he felt. I have to wonder if it would have even bothered him I she hadn't made such a raucous about it. In the end she ruined some innocent fun and made all of us think he was a pervert.

ETA: And I know I'm rambling.. but like others I don't think it's completely cut and dry. I think there are genuine people out there who have fun with clothes, aren't looking for "attention" or anything like that. But sometimes I see such double standards when women judge younger women, yet either did the same or continue to do the same as adults. There are so many aspects to the argument, so many variables that can be argued. It just sucks that we can't be ourselves no matter what we wear, do or say without stereotypes following us.

[nickle730]

I just want to be clear that I don't judge young girls such as my nieces who wear short shorts and tops which reveal their bra. I agree, as a PP said, that they are exploring and experimenting with their emerging sexuality or often just wearing similar clothing to their peers in order to fit in. I don't judge them for this in any way, I simply worry that many young girls, like my nieces, don't fully understand that by presenting themselves in a way which suggests sexuality (be it because of music video's, advertising...) they will often incur attention they are not yet equipped to deal with.

[loulabelle]

rouge, fantastic posts.I 100% agree with you. wish I could rep from my phone.

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[Miss E]

I simply worry that many young girls, like my nieces, don't fully understand that by presenting themselves in a way which suggests sexuality (be it because of music video's, advertising...) they will often incur attention they are not yet equipped to deal with.

I totally get where you (and others) are coming from with this point. But... shouldn't we be condemning the inappropriate 'attention' rather than person wearing the clothing or the clothing.

Young girls often get innappropriate attention regardless of how they're dressed (I have memories of being whistled at walking past building sites in my school uniform). I think these attitudes we're displaying are just illustrating how repressed women still really are in our modern society, and how we as women often contribute to that repression without even realising it or thinking about it.

[loulabelle]

totally agree miss e.

I have strong memories of encountering very much unwanted attention regardless if how I was dressed.

saying young girls do it for and enjoy the attention is only a stones throw from from saying the are asking to be raped. I think most girls wear what they do because peers do and because its what's considered fashionable at the time.


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[MummaBee]

doesnt bother me at all and i would call you a prude but from reading the other replies i can see im the odd one out

[Traveller]

I must be in a very modest town but I have never seen any young girls walking around with nipples showing or bum cheeks hanging below their shorts. Short shorts and see through tops with pretty bras underneath don't bother me in the slightest though, although on very young girls I do sometimes wish they were in clothes more suitable for playing and less suitable for posing but that's just me. I wore see through dresses at 16, that was just the fashion then, so I can't judge young girls these days.

[*LittleMissSummer*]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I respect each of your opinions. Some have made me see them in a whole new light but i still stand by my opinion of that some girls especially younger than 18 should be walking around dressed the way they do. It may be the fashion and the stores may sell them but they don't have to wear them and there are much nicer clothes that will make them feel good about themselves.

Some may think i am being judgemental and you know what i am human, we all judge, some of us silently and others openly.

[nickle730]

MummaBee, love your honesty.

Miss E, I completely understand where you're coming from, although I certainly don't condemn young girls who dress in skimpy gear. I think the men who ogle these young girls need to be more respectful of the girls, and of women in general. I will raise my son to be respectful of all women (and of other blokes!). But, as a mother and an aunt, I can't change the behaviour or perceptions of all men. So, in order to protect my nieces and in future my daughters, I would prefer they dressed in a more covered up manner. Not because there is anything wrong with their bodies, certainly not because they are 'asking for it', simply because I can foresee, as an adult, that the attention they will most likely receive in their tiny shorts and lacy bra is not the sort of attention they will understand or know how to deal with.

I am certainly not a 'prude'. Nudity is a daily occurrence in my home and I personally don't mind a top which shows off my cleavage! (It's fairly impressive, my cleavage!!) But I am an adult and if my boobs attract attention, I am confident that I know how to deal with it.

I would love to live in a society where women of all shapes, sizes and wardrobes are afforded respect but unfortunately we live in a society where the female form has been overtly sexualised.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I am one of the worst hippocrites here.

Age 14, if my skirt couldn't be classed as a belt, it wasn't worn (and yes, my mother was still in charge of buying all my clothes at this point in time). Strappy tops, micromini skirts and high heels worn to school (for some reason not fastening the top button of a shirt underneath a tie was a uniform offence, but ignoring the whole thing and doing whatever I wanted was fine, even when classmates pointed out what I was wearing to the teachers). I knew exactly what kind of attention it would get me, including in the pub where I'd sometimes go for lunch, and liked it - and knew how to deal with it. Don't think because a girl is young and showing flesh she's completely daft, although she does look it. And it does feel good, you've got to admit that.

Actually, I don't think I did the see-through clothing until I was about 17. And not to school. Also, hot pants are more comfortable than they look, in their defence.

Nowadays, I reckon people should cover up a lot more. I cover myself up a lot more too, even though my figure is probably better than it was all those years ago (even with the post-baby tum). The main reason for it is this: the type of attention you get for your body is just physical. Sure, it buys you a few drinks. But is it worth it? The type of guy who will have an accident leering at a young scantily clad girl isn't the type of guy who wants to discuss intricacies of quantum physics (although we did have a points system for near-accidents caused by whorish outfits).

That and I actually look a darn sight more gorgeous covered up - so do most people. But this has the added bonus that people listen to what I'm saying. And guess what - I still get bought drinks in the pub, but this time by guys who will talk quantum physics with me. Result. And that's why I cover up - and why I'll be enforcing far more modest clothes on my daughter (should I have one) when I'm buying them.

[Maruschke]

I agree with your point, TFB, and I guess that's what I was trying to say too.

Let's teach our girls what it is like to be a woman, not just a body (but including a body too). To be loved and enjoyed not just for our appearance but who we are.

I'd be more pleased if my daughter experimented with the right personality and interests and attitudes that suit her, as she moved from teen to adult, than if that process merely involved clothes.

Then again, perhaps the clothes are reflective of that process, who knows.