UREGENT question regarding natural colour 160b (Annatto)

[Matryoshka]

Perhaps someone doing failsafe could help, i've been madly researching but both kids high needs at the moment. Need a quick answer,

Does anyone know if 160b (annatto) is used in flavoured milks? or any brands particular. Have called their customer service line, they were very reluctant and said they'd reply via mail, not expecting a proper answer.

Much appreciated if you can help, wish i had the time to sit here and wade through all the google info. Some info on fedupwithfoodadditives too, but couldn't find about the flavoured milks.

cheers.

[~Raven~]

Just looking quickly in Fed Up and it doesn't mention brands.

It's included in yoghurt, breakfast cereals, vanilla ice cream, crumbed products like fish fingers, sliced cheese (eeks!), biscuits.

It can cause a grouch next day reaction if that's any help! Maybe this is C's problem cos he loves cheese slices...

[Astrid]

It should be listed as part of the ingredient listing on the product. I also look out for 160b, but don't tend to get flavoured milks, so cannot help you with brands. Have you tried looking the brand websites? Often they will have ingredient listings on those.

Just a warning, some oven fries use 160b. Something I was surprised to find.

[Matryoshka]

Not listed on the packet, in fact NO "numbers" listed on the packet.

I am just suspecting its in a product i drink daily, because when i don't have it i am feral, and i've tried quitting so many times but can't.

Am seriously looking in to failsafe, but my god it looks so restrictive and time consuming...is it something that would get easier in time? anyone on here doing failsafe?

[Astrid]

A few BB'ers have done failsafe, or do some version of it.

Here is one thread:
http://forums.bellybelly.com.au/foru...fe-eating.html

[Matryoshka]

Thanks for that. Ordering the book now.

[~Raven~]

You should get Fed Up too. They go hand in hand and it's an interesting read!

I don't do failsafe but plan on it. Sooner rather than later I might add! I use Fed Up as a bit of a lifestyle guide and for things not to buy when I'm shopping.

I made a fatal error this week, Because I was slack with the cooking I bought le snacks and lcm's for the kids. They have been beastly ferals

I haven't really noticed any salycilite sensitivities but I'm going to give it a go. The biggest hurdle is convincing DH

[Janie]

I don't actually DO failsafe, but I do follow it loosely, as DS reacts to alot of things. He is definitely salicylate sensitive, and reacts to a few additives (so I try to avoid as many as possible). Yes, it is time consuming, but it does get easier as time goes on. I would say it takes awhile though, at least 6 months before the new stuff becomes 'normal'. Very worthwhile though, for us anyway.

I have no idea is 160b is in flavoured milks, because we can't have milk , but it should definitely be listed if it is an ingredient.

[Inertia]

160b is a regular in flavoured milk - especially Banana or anything even vaguely yellow. Calciyum has it in all flavours so I had to go to Moove for the boy - who dont use it in chocolate. Only one flavour of one brand of Yoghurt doesnt have it too... I can't get cheese slices without it without paying $7 a pack..

Its horribly feral and in practically everything with gay abandon. Even bread crumbs!

ETA Oh! And Ice cream! The only one ice cream without it is $9 for 4l! Its maddening.

[Astrid]

The biggest hurdle is convincing DH

Same problem here, I really wanted to do it with DD1, but DH thought it was no need. Could have saved us a lot of pain if we had. DD1 seems to be much better now, but I do think there is still something there that if it builds up can cause issues. Good luck!

[MantaRay]

I don't follow it strictly, but I do avoid sugar and the listed preservatives for the most part. DH thought I was being pedantic at first, but he has now seen the resulting change in behaviour often enough to know when DS1 particularly has had sugar or a preservative he reacts to. When I told DS1's paed recently that I avoid them she said straight away that he'd be very sensitive to those things - DH was there to hear that too, but he had already been convinced by then.

[Matryoshka]

I've been reading the book and am more than convinced. I am almost certain that my long term treatment resistant PND is not so much PND as food intolerance!! So much of my own childhood behaviour rings true in the personal testaments. I am also seeing some of the same things in my 3 year old whom i thought was just having a long term terrrible two phase.

As i'm reading the book and any spare minute i have i plan to research this and start going failsafe. Need to convincve DH and find a supportive dietician. Will try it on myself before the children as they are just too fussy at the moment. I think when DH sees a change in me, he will want to do it for the boys. I plan to start a blog on this just because i have so much going on in my head i need to let it out somewhere, and i think my DH is getting sick of hearing the words additives, behaviour, feeling bad/sick etc.

I particularly think i have an intolerance to the salycilates as all the foods on the avoid list are the ones i love and crave, and all the ones on the OK list are ones i hate and never eat!

Anyway ta for the advice xxx

[~Raven~]

I'm trying to figure out exactly what triggers responses in myself. I don't and haven't had behavioral issues but get asthma and migranes. I know tomato sauce is a problem but it could either be additives such as sulfor dioxide or salycilates

[Janie]

Sounds like a good plan Tan blogging it sounds good too. Please keep us posted with how you go, or send me a link to your blog......would love to read it!

As for the boys, particularly with DS1, just have a little look at his behaviour and when he has eaten certain things. Some reactions are really easy to pick, others are much more difficult because they build up over time. But if you spot an easy one, then just try removing that one factor from his diet - you could be amazed at how just one little thing can cause huge problems! Like I said, I haven't actually done the failsafe plan, but I have over time picked up different problems, one by one. Our biggest, biggest factors come from being soy and dairy intolerant, and I've known that for most of this year. But although we saw massive improvements after removing those things, I started to notice another, different problem - the salicylate sensitivity. It is actually quite a different reaction for my DS, but it can be hard to spot because at only just 2 years, they can't tell you a great deal. But the intolerances lead to sleep and behavioural difficulties (big time) which leads to screaming. And the salicylates lead to terrible stomach cramps - which also leads to screaming . But we can tell the difference now, thank goodness.

I know that all seems like a big ramble but I know that reading Astrid and Christy's stories really helped me in searching for what was upsetting my DS. Alot of it was stuff that I had never heard of, and probably wouldn't have if not for BB.

Good luck, I hope you see great success from changing your eating!

[Janie]

Just for those looking at the salicylate thing - I am by no means an expert, and talking to our naturopath really helped me to understand it a little better. Salicylates are in almost everything! They are almost impossible to avoid altogether. Most people find that they react only to those foods that are categorised as being very high, or high, in salicylates. So that can be a good starting point, just eliminating those foods.

And I do think that it is so individual. DS reacts worse to some things in the very high group than others. Raw tomato is by far his very biggest trigger. Strawberries and grapes, along with all dried fruit are way up there too. But cooked tomato isn't as bad. I haven't actually looked into this enough to know why that might be.

Again, rambling, but HTHs

[~Raven~]

Yep Janie I get that

[Matryoshka]

Thanks Janie, that did help!

I just wanted to update:

I found taking on the salicylates challenge too much at this point as i'm currently coming off my PND medication. However, the irony of that is that what is supposed to be a stressful uncomfortable time (as anyone who's come off these types of meds will understand) has not been! I have hardly even noticed the reduction in my medication and i am sure it is due to the food changes i have made which are:

Avoiding almost all the food chemicals listed in the book (colours, preservatives, antioxidents etc), especially Annatto which i've decided is evil. I particularly noticed it in the yoghurt i buy my boys, and DS1 gets hypo and irate afterwards. I am so glad i linked this. For myself i have almost completely cut out dairy. I only have about 200ml either in coffee or cereal, and for me thats been the hugest change... i am no longer bloated, bowel habits have changed dramatically, and when on one day i did have several serves of dairy i found myself moody and with toilet urgency! So i suspect i might be intolerant to anything more than tiny amounts. I have also cut out sweets & snacky foods instead eating almonds or fruit.

So this has been a great experience. I'm not sure when i'll get the energy to take on the salicylate challenge, but for now the benefits have been really good so i'll be sticking with it.

Thanks again for all the support & info.

[Janie]

Tan, that is great!!!! You know, I found myself nodding all the way through your post LOL. So much of that rings true for me. I have been tested, only because DS was, and found that I am dairy, soy and nut intolerant. I do notice a big change in my levels of tiredness, grumpiness, and bowel habits when I have too much of those things, particularly dairy. You might find that eliminating dairy completely (or almost completely) will really help. Or you might find that the 200ml is something your body can handle. It's really just trial and error, as you know . Oh, and if you are dairy intolerant, there is every chance your boys are too. (Did you know that there are links between babies having reflux and being dairy intolerant?).

The salicylates challenge is massive, but I wouldn't be too worried about doing for now if I were you. It may not even be a problem for you. And you can spend time now looking carefully at the dairy thing, and additives, without being confused about what it causing what.

I am so, so glad to hear how happy you sound with all of this Tan, and really relieved for you that coming off your meds is going well. It's so good to read . You're a champ!