During the day she is rocked to sleep, then put down.
People have said to me that you can't teach self-settling without crying and I'm not interested in that. But how will DD ever learn to self-settle? Should I be doing something to teach her? I never even give her the opportunity bc she won't. If I put her in her cot she will play around then cry when she gets sick of it. She won't go to sleep by herself so I never try, just do our usual routine. So then how will she ever learn? I don't know how to help her learn?
I have a theory that they learn by watching us. I have always co-slept. My little ones, i think, learnt that there was a sequence of events like: food, play, bath, clothes, soft music then sleep...
Sleep was when mummy lays down next to me and it's dark and quiet and mummy talks soft then she breathes deeply and slowly and before i know it i'm asleep. The pattern teaches me (from a babies perspective)... I learn to anticipate it.
I don't believe that crying teaches much either.
ETA: I didn't use the cot much... when they were young i would rock them to sleep in the bassinette or lie down with them in my bed.... sometimes I would transfer to the cot after they were in deep sleep.
My kids wanted to learn to self settle from a very early age. I do believe it is harder when some things aren't in place (but I know people who are of the complete opposite mindset to me and that is ok!). Both my kids had comforters that were part of their sleep routine, even during the day. They both had a mozart mobile, which they kept the music of till they were 2. They both had pacifiers. And one had a soft toy and the other had a blanket. They developed their own routine themselves over time, but up until they were able to do that I or DH would be there to soothe them. We never CIO, but yes sometimes there was tears, as I'm sure there are sometimes when you are rocking to sleep or when overtired meltdowns happen... but they were always reassured with our presence and contact. We were basically the opposite to CIO's in that we were in the room if they cried and out of the room if they were calm. There are things you can help her to see about bedtime, that its safe, comfy and happy. Rather than stressful, a pain and upsetting. We did this by talking about bedtime, saying goodnight to all the toys, picking a story to read, brushing teeth etc. In doing this you are creating little routines that they feel secure in and I'm not talking hardened routines. I'm talking about little things they find comfort in and can come to expect which in hand brings security at bedtime. And if there is a pattern or behaviour you wish to change with the current settling techniques it does need to be replaced by a new one.
My kids are now nearly 8 and nearly 4 and they both still have settling techniques. When they are both feeling vulnerable about sleep (ie. overtired, exhausted, or even excited!) they will ask for a hot milk and honey which will be had at the breakfast bar and we'll have chatters... then it will be teeth, a book for my 4 yr old, my 8 yr old reads her readers and other books. It will be cuddles with both of us, DD lies a certain way and strokes a stuffed toy with her two fingers till she falls asleep. She has recently asked if she can have her door shut at bedtime (we've never forced her to have her door shut) so this is now another part of her sleep routine. I know she also sucks on her tongue just before she falls to sleep. DS on the other hand still has moments where he might come out 3 times to go to the toilet or similar (usually if he has a nap that day - kinder days he zonks out instantly!) and thats ok we just remind him gently it's time for bed and eventually he'll go to sleep. When he goes to sleep he needs his little star light on and his blanket has to be facing a certain way with "his corner" to him (it needs to be a SQUARE he says!) And he plays with the corner till he falls asleep.
And me as an adult I have things I need to get to sleep... I have to have my water, a cuddle, my pillow to cuddle into and sometimes as adults we need to have a little worry about our checklist for the next day or week or month before we sleep.
Everyone has sleep routines and self settling techniques, it's just a matter of introducing them. But people often fear them because the term "routine" can be used. And for whatever reason when using the term routine in combination with gentle parenting people seem to balk. But think of it this way when we need to urinate we routinely empty our bladder, and we routinely wipe ourselves and we might routinely fold the paper a certain way... and hopefully people routinely wash their hands LOL!
It's all about perspective, but you can gently introduce techniques and things that will assist DD to self settle
Sorry I've waffled!
Last edited by Rouge; November 9th, 2009 at 03:12 PM.
: great spelling... or maybe lack of...
DD feeds to sleep at night time here too.
During the day, she will sometimes self settle after a little bit of grizzling and unwinding (not crying or screaming) but most of the time feeds to sleep day time too. We don't let her cry for long either here. It just makes her more upset and we don't believe in CC anyway.
DD was such a good self settler around the age of 4-6mths then she changed and the last 2mths approx she has needed me to help her get to sleep during her day sleeps aswell....
From what I've read, I think eventually they just learn to self settle when they are ready in their own time..... I'll be interested to read more in this thread.
wonderful post cai!
as i was reading that i was picturing the kids in your kitchen drinking their hot milk, your a wonderful mum!
both girls have self settled by their selves from the start, DD1 had her thumb as a comforter, not she has puppies to cuddle and a blanket over her, DD2 did have a dummy but now has a blankie.
both have had the same bedtime routine from newborns and im sure thats helped (though not at the moment with DD2 )
I fed to sleep. Every sleep. And even weaning from BM to FF I still fed to sleep. I followed a routine that I wanted to establish, and I honestly thought DS would never fall asleep without the bottle or boob.
But, at some point, and I dont know when, he would just get drowsy in my arms with the bottle, and I was able to pop him in the cot, awake, but sleepy and he would just drift off. And it moved on from there. He now can have a bottle without falling asleep in the morning after breakfast and at night, he has his milk while we read a story, then he goes to bed awake, but content, and sometime even very awake and alert and not looking like he will sleep, but he just drifts off. Some nights it can take 20min or so, but he can do it alone.
As Rogue said, I think the thing that really helped is setting up a "routine", even though it ended up with feed to sleep, and when DS was ready we just dropped that off the back of the routine, but everything else remained constant, and predicable and comfortable, and I think that is how DS got the confidence to "go it alone" (so to speak).
And you are helping her develop that confidence, with the reassurance you give DD now... xo
While I completely agree with the idea of a bedtime/naptime routine (always have done this with DD), I think learning to self-settle is also a developmental thing. And like anything developmental some babies/children will go through it earlier and some later. Every child has its own personality and some will want more comfort (at any time, not just sleep time), some less. At their own pace, with some gentle encouragement, I personally think every child comes around to settling independently (same as they learn to walk independently, feed independently, toilet independently and so on). If you are making it easy for your child to fall asleep (usually happily), then you won't be creating any barriers to them learning to do it by themselves, when they're ready. (As opposed to CC or CIO, where they just learn there is no point to objecting to something they don't like or aren't ready for). And I agree with Cai and the others that a routine is not something that is mutually exclusive to gentle parenting. Without a set pattern at bedtime I think my DD would find every excuse in the book to slow down going to bed!
We have a bedtime routine of dinner, nappy-free time, bath, pjs on, book, boob, then she's transferred to bed when she falls asleep feeding.
During the day she either feeds to sleep or we put on her sleep music and I rock her then put her down.
The thing is all the things we do are things I do to/for her, so maybe I need to introduce some things that don't involve me?? Maybe a comforter and also some quiet time in her cot before naps winding down herself?? Would that help??
DD#1 has a blanket she loves - I introduced it to her by putting it over my shoulder before cuddles (when she was upset or sleepy) and it didnt take long for her to love it! I started when she was about 6mths old and it was quite accidental actually!
I haven't read all of the replies... but just want to give my experience.
DS fed to sleep from day one until he was about 2. He was night weaned around 15 mths when I was pregnant, but still fed to sleep at bed time. This eventually changed to feeding then sitting or lying with him until he slept. Then at around 2 1/2 (I think... would be interesting to read older posts to see exact times LOL... it's all fading into one foggy memory now) I started leaving him during day naps and if he stayed in bed he got loads and loads of praise and he was so excited. So for a while it was a mixture of me staying & going and lots of praise (maybe a couple of weeks??) Then I could just pretty much kiss him goodnight and leave him to it. There were stages where we attempted self settling with him to see if it was the right time, and it obviously wasn't, so we just kept going until he was ready. I don't think I trained him at all... just gently guided him as he became more ready.
DD has been different. She self settled for a good 7 months.. then started needing rocking to sleep. When this stopped working we moved to feeding on the bed and sitting/lying with her. We're still sitting with her and she's now 2. We've attempted it a few times getting her to go to sleep by herself. Have had a few successes (think we got lucky when she was just purely exhausted LOL) but generally I don't think she's quite ready. I'll just keep trying now & then and praising when she stays in bed.
So from my experience... I was happy to help them sleep (yes it irritates me some nights) knowing they would do it eventually one day. I just don't have the energy to "train" my kids (same goes for TT.. waited until DS was totally ready and there was little training involved! LOL) and DS is, for the most part, a fantastic self settler and sleeper now. No crying or training involved. He does now take the day's favourite toy to bed, but never used it as a comforter or anything.
Just think of bed time as your down time.. read a book or read BB LOL while they drift off.. and everyone's happy Just go with what you're comfortable doing.. your baby doesn't HAVE to do anything a certain way, and there's nothing wrong with you being the comforter.. no need to introduce an artificial one
That's my opinion from my experience anyway
Last edited by Liz; November 10th, 2009 at 09:12 AM.
My DD has no comfort toy or similar. She had a dummy for sleep times only until just before age 2 and gave it up easily and with no fuss. I'm still her comfort if she's upset or doesn't want to sleep alone in her bed, but nothing else. She has various toys that she will often take to bed (inc books, barbies, etc - not very comfortable!), but nothing specific. But she's a very settled child and was always pretty happy to sleep alone. She was wrapped until about 9 mths, so not much point giving her anything to hold anyway.
How do they learn to self settle??
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DS done it on his own just all of a sudden he just wouldnt let me hold or rock him when he was tired
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