What would you do? I need some ideas...

[Inanna]

I've put this in here as I am searching for some growthful responses that will stretch me.

My girls got back from their 3 hour a week visit to their dad's. My son has chosen to opt out of a relationship with his father due to difficulties he has dealing with his fathers behavior and his fathers deception. He sees a therapist re this and really is quite balanced with it all... (just so you get the back ground)

Anyway there are "family friends" of my ex husband who since the break up I haven't heard hide nor hair from... All good I know that it happens and some people just can't cope so they choose a side. I get that & am at peace with it...

However, this "family friend" (she's an older woman and the wife of a retired Anglican priest) sends my DD7 & DD8 letters and lollies each week but nothing for my DS who doesn't see his dad. Of course these are sent to ex's house. I have asked the girls not to offer the info so as to preserve DS's feelings. Anyways it all came out tonight that this happens.

The girls came back with a bag of lollies each that their father had insisted (according to them) that they bring back.

My DS was devastated. Because his Dad had done this. Because J & J had done this... He said: "this is why I don't see him". But the poor darling was sobbing & saying I can't believe J & J would exclude me to punish me for not talking to Dad...

I felt so angry...

I meditated & I thought & I am trying hard to send them love & understanding. But I am hoping that they just don't get how this could hurt a little boy. I am failing to understand how his dad could do this...

What would you do?

I have taken the lollies, talked to the three of then together & explained that it's hurtful and Lucy was so upset as she says she actually asked her father if she could leave her lollies behind so DS wasn't hurt,..

I feel like writing and telling J & J how hurtful this was. I feel like letting ex know how hurtful this was...

But I don't want any more pain or fighting or backlash... What is the way to handle this that doesn't create disharmony for everyone...

[willow5]

For you all Sorry no advice here, just makes me sad that people can be like that at all! I feel so sad for your DS and DDs. I have a friend whose XH plays these games with the children, and I honestly wonder if there is any point trying to talk to these kind of people or if you are just wasting your breath???? Who does that to children??? Sounds like "family friends" and XH are tarred from the same brush, I hope one day they wake up to themselves and try to make amends.

[~Kaz~]

Oh Inanna, my heart is breaking for your little boy, and also your girls who weren't comfortable with the situation but were pressured to go along with it by adults who should have known better. Even if J&J made the mistake of not realising the impact on DS, your ex- was tipped off by your DD and still pressed ahead anyway.
How horrible for them all

FWIW, it sounds like you have some amazing, mature, insightful, wise children there. I think you should be proud of them and they should be very proud of themselves.

From your ticker I'm guessing your son is 9 or a little older? Given his level of insight does he have any ideas how he'd like to handle this situation? I think you could have another conversation in a day or two, or over the weekend when things have settled from the initial emotional intensity, and see what the kids think. You could take a problem solving approach and get them to brainstorm ideas about how to resolve emotional pain/conflict with others or have some ideas yourself (including doing nothing concrete beyond thinking and processing and working towards accepting it) and see what they think. They sound like bright kids and might surprise you with their take on how to handle it. Even if no action is actually taken, or not right away, this type of discussion with you and his sisters could be quite beneficial to your son.

Some of the ideas I had when reading your post were:
1. DS talking to his therapist about it
2. DS writing a letter to his father and/or J&J to explain how he felt and ask they don't do it again
3. You could speak to any of the adults and politely request that future gifts are either for all or no one (without going into too much detail)
4. DS writing a letter but not actually sending it
5. DD's coming up with some strategies for handling future similar situations (because it may continue now it's happened once) - and I know this would be really hard given their ages but they may feel more confident next time to simply say 'no thankyou'
6. The children deciding amongst themselves that any future gifts are then theirs to share between themsevles later (that may or may not be appropriate or acceptable to your son though).

I dunno if that's helpful or not really. It's such a hard situation, the last thing you want to do is make it worse. I suspect that if you do choose to speak to one of the adults yourself, their reaction will tell you whether it was intentional or a horrible oversight. Emotional pain is part of life. Learning to experience it in a way that promotes growth and leads to a 'better' person is a massive challenge for adults. I am not sure, I don't know your son, but perhaps there is a way to discuss this in an age appropriate way with him - either now or down the track a little. That all of his experiences are going to influence him and the kind of man he grows into. That it's not what happens to us, but what we do about it and the qualities we develop/display (courage, patience, loyalty, honesty, respect etc etc) that is most important.

None of that will take away his hurt though.

ETA - Just re-read your post. His Dad is doing this because he doesn't have the emotional maturity himself to deal appropriately with your son's decision not to have contact. He is reacting like a child would on the playground - you don't want to play with me? well then, I'll get my own back - kind of thing. Perhaps there is a non-attacking way to present this to your son. That his dad just isn't coping with his choice but that it's his Dad's responsibility to chose his own behaviour. It hurst more than it would from a kid on the playground because your son (rightly) expects more adult behaviour from his dad.

[~Serenity~]

just wondering firstly if you know for certain they didnt send ds something and xh just threw it out to cause all this drama

no advise though i think kaz has done a great job, and your ds sounds more mature than alot of men out there, you should feel very proud of yourself for such wonderful kids

[luna moth]

I love Kaz's ideas about self-determination. Can the four of you sit down together and discuss it? You can commend Lucy on her thoughtfulness at not wanting her brother's feelings to be hurt, and talk about the fact these friends and their dad has done this; let them speculate on why if they want to, or not, and let them think about what is the right thing to do.

When I was a kid, all lollies/lolly bags etc came home and we were allowed to have one thing on the way home or save it. The rest went in a communal jar, and then we would all get one thing each at designated special times (which were pretty frequent) So it never occurred to any of us not to share these things. Couldn't say for sure that there were never any tears over it, but I know that none of us are consumed my material possessions now. It's an idea. Taht is a little OT. Sorry.

I'm sorry to hear that their dad is being like this. I hope you guys come up with something.

[willow5]

just wondering firstly if you know for certain they didnt send ds something and xh just threw it out to cause all this drama

no advise though i think kaz has done a great job, and your ds sounds more mature than alot of men out there, you should feel very proud of yourself for such wonderful kids

Good point Serenity about XH sounds like he may just do something like that

I also agree Kaz has some great ideas, and it does sound like you have wonderful kids who seem to be taking after you NOT XH!

[Trillian]

If it were me, I would be talking to the people who are sending the lollies for the kids. ExDH is a twat, we know that and he's proven he will stoop to very low levels to hurt you so if it wasn't this, it would be something else and you expect that sort of thing from him, but like you said DS isn't hurt about that so much as what the friends have done and I think it is important that they are told just how much this has hurt DS because it is beyond reproach that friends are getting in on the mind and power games as well, take sides fine, but don't participate kwim? and it's disgraceful that they think it is OK to deliberately exclude one child simply because he chooses not to visit his father. I'm sure that you can think of a nicely worded email, or better still a phone call because it is harder to back away from someone you are speaking to but you can ignore an email.

I think what Kaz has suggested are great ideas, but the kids shouldn't have to do all that kwim? They shouldn't have to learn strategies to cope with adult manipulation to avoid getting hurt. So if what they have done is spelt out for them, maybe they will realise that what they are doing is pretty rank and will stop it completely, or at least send an extra bag for DS.

[onthefly]

The x is irredemable I think, so no point going there Maybe talking directly to the friends might be one way to go - it should be all or nothing.
Kaz's ideas are great too, if you feel it would be helpful to the kids to work through this also.

[littlelara]

I'm struggling to understand how these so-called friends could be so insensitive. I'm hoping against hope that there is a rational explanation; What do the letters that come with the lollies say?
I wish I had some answers for you, I like the idea of all goodies becomming communal, but it doesn't detract from your ds' feelings of exclusion.
I hope someone else comes up with something more useful, I'll be thinking of you and yours, and hoping a light goes on for these selfish, inconsiderate and unenlightened creatures

[Inanna]

Please know how grateful I am to you all for taking the time to help me.
I spent the day at Chenrezig today - meditating, talking to Wisdom & just having a big cry... Feel pretty wrung out tonight. I just feel so tired of dealing with this other persons pain that he projects so well on to all around him.

I agree that he just has probably witheld the letter/gift to my DS...

I've chosen for now to do nothing until I'm feeling more certain.

I know that I chose this man so I could learn & he me likewise - but I wanna get off the train now... Please!

[Arcadia]

I agree that speaking to the adult friends is the first thing to do. Then I would suggest if ds is actually excluded that what is handed out at ex's stays at ex's. Many people use this arrangement with clothes etc, because I an thinking that's what's coming next...new toys/games for the girls etc.

you are the most beautiful wise mother I know...sending you strength!

[Smoke Jaguar]

I agree with Trill. Address this with the people involved. I would write to them and tell them what's happening. They either know and may benefit from reading what's happening on your end after their actions and XH's actions have been executed (and you don't need to accuse, you just state the story you're getting from XH and wait for them to confirm or deny) or they don't know and would probably appreciate light being shed on how the sicho is being manipulated.
You're not going to control what happens, and you already know that - you may, however, influence these goings on by bringing it up with them. You may not, but you will have afforded them the benefit of the doubt and you will thank yourself for it
You wouldn't go astray saying to them what you told us, re: understanding that old friends sometimes can't straddle two sides and that's fine by you if they are not going to do any harm to the kids. If their feelings about you have changed since the split then that's up to them and you understand that it's not in your power to do anything about it and it's not something you plan to change if that's the case.
This will put the onus back onto them. If they are deliberately excluding him they can either feel like chumps and open up to him again, or remain chumps and prove themselves as such. If they are unaware of the effect of gifts only to the children they actually see, then they may seek to rectify that. If XH is manipulating gifts they have sent for DS then they will find that out, too - they will most likely ask him about it and wait for his response.
In all of this DS and DDs would benefit from being aware of what you are telling them (the other parties, that is) and the rationale, if you do address it with them and cover these bases. Your excellent communication with them will serve them well for problem-solving later on
This approach kind of allows for not being certain of their intentions or of XH's likely manipulations, and lets them reveal themselves for what they are to all stakeholders. AND it's a gentle approach that can only be interpreted as coming from a heartspace, not a vengeful or trivial headspace.
These are my thoughts and what I would do, because you have nothing to lose by trying the direct approach - they have already withdrawn from your circle - and the kids will know where they stand and why this has happened as a 'gain'. Win Win for you and your family, the way I see it, unless someone else can poke holes in my theory
what an arsey thing for DS

[kirsty_lee]

Oh wow! What a sad situation. My heart hurt for your little boy reading your post Inanna. Probably not much point to me posting now lol cause you already decided you were gonna leave it but it seems like you had some good advice here anyway so just some from me. And hopefully things get a bit easier.

[Trillian]

That's fair enough Inanna, it was a tough decision to make

[Smoke Jaguar]

I take too long to compose, clearly!
I'll ETA: when you're ready to think about 'what to do'

[BekZ]

I can see how your heart strings have been pulled Inanna. I would go straight to the source. Call these friends and explain the situation. Your ex may have told them that your DS doesn't visit and they may assume that the girls with eat all the lollies before they go home.