I'm so over fighting at nap time!

[Calluna]

DS is BF to sleep for all his naps. He'll be fine for the first 5 or 10 mins then REFUSE (I'm talking screaming, back arching, crying mess) to let me cradle him to feed him. And before anyone asks, YES! He does want milk, he'll take it in ANY other position, even comes and takes it when I put him down, but if I try to lie him over my legs he cracks it. Bigtime. but of course he wont sleep if I feed him in another position

I've had it. I cannot do this battle anymore. It's making me HATE our breastfeeding relationship. I want to love it, I used to, a year ago when he didn't do this and on the rare occasions that he does settle (once a month if that) it's lovely. But I cannot do this 4 times a day everyday anymore.

He refuses to go to sleep on his own, being rocked, patted or any other method you can think of. I've tried them all.

Why?? What's wrong with my baby??

[onthefly]

This battle isn't about breastfeeding, it's about sleeping. It's a really tough one. The best thing when youfind yourself in this sort of spot is to stop.
There's nothing wrong with your baby, or with you either for that matter. It may be that he's ready to drop a sleep (how many is he having) or to go to sleep a different way. If he's putting up a fight, then put him down. If he still wants milk, then fine, but make it about feeding ,not sleeping. Then stick him in a pram and go for a walk or do something else completely different.
When DS was like this I started walking him to sleep during the day - still do sometimes. I'd sit him up with a bickie (so there was no suggestion that I expected him to sleep), and he'd nod off pretty quickly if he was tired enough. Had to take him unawares.
Don't fight on, trying to get him to sleep if it's like this - it's horrible and depressing! I know he's crazy tired and desperately needs to sleep, but it really isn't worth it.

[Calluna]

yea I didn't mean to make it about breastfeeding that's just the way it seems because that's what I'm doing at the time.
I start when he first shows signs of being tired and he fights and fights for HOURS. He's exausted at the end of it, I try getting him up for a while and just leaving it but he's so grumpy and tired. When he's tired he's really clumsy, then it's a safety issue.

ie today at 2 I took him to bed fed him, fought him for 30 mins, brought him out and within 2 mins he'd chucked a tanty because I brought him inside after checking the letterbox, 5 mins later he fell over, didn't hurt himself but screamed, calmed down after 5mins, wanted to get down so I put him down and he burst into tears and threw himself on the floor because he wanted to be up Took him back to bed and battled with him for another hour and a half and he's finally gone to sleep at 4.

Didn't have the pram today, DF took it to work and it was pouring rain anyway.

I'm afraid that if I don't get him to sleep we'll end up in a horrible cycle like we did when he was 4 months old where he's so overtired, he wont sleep during the day, sleeps badly over night, therefore wont sleep during the day. It took 3 months to break that, I cant do it again.

Not sure if that answers any of your questions, guess I needed to vent some more.

ETA - He has 2 sleeps but still needs them, if he misses out he's so misserable and grumpy.

[onthefly]

Honestly, this sounds very much like my DS. It's all up to you - obviously you know better then me what he needs, but spending 1-2 hours getting your child to sleep is pretty awful, so it's no wonder you feel so bad. DS was the same and I did it for months.
It was really hard at the time, but the best advice I ever got was to just stop trying. And yeah, he was absolutely wasted and he needed to sleep, but I needed my sanity too. And you know what - it all got so much easier when I stopped trying so hard.
As for the overtired cycle - yep, been there, a great many times. DS transitioned to 1 day sleep around 15-16 months and his day sleeps got so much better from that age (maybe the 1 sleep was a coincidence).

[Calluna]

Thanks Marcellus, I'll try to stop trying, it's just so hard to see him THAT tired and not be able to fix it.
He's awake now...

[Mummato2]

Hev - could he be ready to move to 1 big sleep per day?

This sounds terribly familiar with my DS and that was when he was ready to drop a sleep.

You can try pushing his morning sleep out 15 mins every 2 - 3 days until you get it to the middle of the day.

When he does go down, how long does he nap for?

[Shanti]

If he's still having 2 day naps, it sounds like he's definitely ready for only 1 nap now....with that nap, when I transitioned DD to 1 nap (around 13mths as she was fighting that afternoon nap so bad!!) I would push her sleep out until 11am and then eventually later and later until lunch time.....took a bit of time. But by the time DD goes to bed these days, she's so buggered she usually doesn't fight it (around 1230pm she goes down). If she does fight it, then I don't bother lying with her for too long, I get up and try again 30mins later. BTW, my DD won't feed to sleep anymore, not since she outgrew it at 11mths (much to my dismay at the time!!!).
Only way to get her down is to lie with her, we read 2 books and then I say time for a sleep and we lie together.....

Why don't you introduce 2 books to read to him every day before his nap time? Like having a night routine....but it's a day routine? It helped us

Remember too, when you're feeling stressed about him not going to sleep (and trust me, I've had many days like that so I know how you feel!!!!) it only makes it worse as he picks up on your stress levels and it makes him only worse.

[Calluna]

When he does go down, how long does he nap for?

An hour or two at a time. He starts getting tired at 8 30am-ish if I take him to bed right away he is usually asleep by 10 sometimes as late as 11. Today he woke up from his nap at 12 15 and was rubbing his eyes again at 1.
I just don't know if he can handle it, the longer I stretch it out the harder it is to get him to sleep.

[Calluna]

Ta Shanti, I guess I'll just try it and see how we go. I'm just so scared to fall back into that horrible overtired pattern of no sleep. It was so bad last time, he was so grumpy and I think it affected his development, I don't want to go back to that

He wont lie still, not for a second. I put him on the bed/ in his cot and he's up looking at things, playing, crying, andything but sleeping. That's why patting, sitting with him, self settling has never worked. He's just too busy. He's the same with nappy changes, nothing will make him lie still.

[onthefly]

With DS it just got to the point where I didn't even try unless he was absolutely shattered - those early signs of tiredness were no use any more, he fought it so much.

[Calluna]

Ok so we got up at 6:30 this morning, (He slept through from 10:30 until 6:30!!! First time in months! #1), he was rubbing his eyes by 8am, I normally would have taken him to bed but decided to give your suggestions a go and waited until he was getting clumsy and very grumpy at about 10:30. took him to the toilet where he did wee's on the potty ( #2) the bedroom, fed him and he went straight to sleep!! now I know this could be a once off and possibly related to him sleeping through as well becuase he was no where near as grumpy and clumsy as he would normally be if I kept him up... but YAY all the same!!!

I'm going to get a little ahead of myself here but THANK YOU to Marcellus, becaus I've posted about this same issue a few times and you always say the same thing (sorry ) and it's taken me this long to get it and THANK YOU to Mummato2 and Shanti for your posts as well. Please Please, make this last

[ss_storm]

woohoo!!! Awesome about the sleep through (hope you feel nice and refreshed!) and his sleep today. I've just given up on DD having a sleep today..been fighting with her for over an hour. She's going to be sooo cranky this afternoon, but if she isn't asleep by one then she'll sleep too late and won't go to sleep at bedtime tonight
Hope he keeps it up for you!

[Swoop]

Oh I hope that is the answer for you, I suspect it is because it sounds like what we've been going through too. I'm finding that the odd day when DD gets up at stupid o'clock she will have to have 2 sleeps, but generally stringing her out until at least 11.30 and letting her have 1 sleep works so much better. If she has either 1 or 2 sleeps, if it goes over 3pm we have a hiddeous bedtime.

Yay to Marcellus - she gave me the same advice and she was right

[Calluna]

ss

He woke up after 40 mins. Lol sigh. Oh well, maybe he'll sleep again later...

hehe, Marcellus - sleep guru extrodinaire...

[onthefly]

No I'm not. I've just done the same thing as you guys, is all.
I hope things work better for you now - at the very least, spending less time stressing about it really does make things easier.

[Calluna]

lol, I was just kidding

[Shanti]

Yep, we've been there that's all helps to know you are not alone.