Asks for Nappy for Poos

[goddessofdawn]

DD has been tted for a few months now, but only for number 1s. We have had some issues with stool withholding (holding in poos) before she was tted, so I've been very careful not to push too hard in regards to pooing on the toilet, because I know if she really does not want to do it, she will start withholding again. Luckily her withholding only went on for a few weeks, and I took her to doctor who checked her and said there was no impaction or anything, and she's not constipated anymore etc.

She is due to start pre-kindy (3 year olds) next year, but if she isn't fully tted I will have to cancel which would be a real shame.

Has anyone been through the same thing and do you have any tips or ideas for me? She really wants a Furby so I've been using that as an incentive and encouraging her to sit on the toilet for poos but she refuses, and I back off due to fear of withholding again.... Maybe I just need to wait until she needs to do an "urgent" poo and sit her on there so it happens relatively quickly??

Any help appreciated.

[~Hestia~]

Just wanted to say that my 3 year old will only go in a nappy too, he isn't night trained so hangs on all day until his night nappy goes on. Have just put the third one on him in less than an hour! Hopefully someone will have some advice for us.

[LimeSlice]

You won't need to cancel, they don't expect 3 year olds to be fully TTd for beginning of kinder. You will most likely find that she gets better out of sight by the time second term starts.
How old is she now? I think you just need to be patient. Not being totally toilet trained by 3 is quite normal.

[goddessofdawn]

Thanks, but she is already 3
She will be 3 and 3 months at the start of February when term starts, and unfortunately the kindy has been very clear that "children are expected to be toilet trained". Although I am sure there will be the occasional accident!

I might just leave it, I still have another 1.5 months to make some progress..... I just don't want her to be distressed at kindy if she needs to poo. I would be very very surprised if she just went to the toilet at kindy - more likely she would hold it in if not urgent, or if urgent she would become distressed and ask for a nappy... Disaster!

[feeb]

DS1 would ask for nappy and scream and cry and go crazy for a nappy for a poo. He didn't TT till 3 years 7 months. What I did after a few days of the hyserics was carry him to the toilet sit him on it and talk to him calm him down, then sing songs, tell a story and show him pics on my phone. Once he did a poo finally on toilet as was calm he was so excited that we took a pic and sent it to daddy at work LOL yes a poo pic LOL and we had no issues after that.

Good luck its stressful time I am close to doing DS2 and hoping he will be as easy.

[goddessofdawn]

Thanks Feeb - we have an ipad so maybe we should sit on the toilet with that!! And I will tell her we can send a poo photo to dad at work, she will love that! haha

[HotI]

My kinder said that they are not legally allowed to refuse kids on basis of toilet training, but encourage parents to do so, and they may call you up to change the child if they poo.

you could try encouraging her to sit in the bathroom, or on the toilet (wearing a nappy) when she poos. I have also heard people have success by then cutting bigger and bigger holes in the nappy (disposable), so eventually the poo goes into the toilet.

[Beautitude]

Ds1 was like this. He used to wait till he had a nappy on at night till he did a poo. For him it seemed to be a fear thing so we compromised and said he could have a nappy but he had to sit on the toilet to do it (with nappy on) We then cut a little hole in the nappy that got progressively bigger. He learnt that it wasn't so scary to do a poo after a couple of goes with the nappy on and the poo dropping in the toilet. We made a huge deal of the poo in the toilet and he was really proud so started doing poo's in the toilet of his own accord. Only took a few days in the end. Good luck!

[Frangipani Lou]

I agree with Hotl. They cannot refuse children who aren't toilet trained. It is harder for supervision when needing to change a nappy, so that could be why. id ask them why they prefer children to be TT. I had a child who was 4 1/2 and still in nappies start in my kinder this year and had he not TT over a weekend, we would have made provisions for changing him.
I'd encourage you to speak with the teachers now and let them know that you are working on it and together work out a strategy that's going to work for everyone.
Would you be open to packing a pull-up for poos? If she does do a poo in one its the same as changing a child who's has an accident in their undies so the staff should be pretty used to that with 3 year olds.
I'm happy to give more suggestions or answer questions if I can help at all.

[goddessofdawn]

But this isn't normal kindy, this is privately-run pre-kindy for 3 year olds.... So I assumed they could make their own rules?? They are teachers, not child care workers, so they don't change nappies... I really wish this wasn't the case

I've tried to encourage DD to sit on the toilet with a nappy on, but she has her own spot for doing poos - "in the corner"! I will have to gradually try and convince her.
I have to be very careful though because stool withholding is something I can not go through again. It was far too stressful for both of us.

[LimeSlice]

But this isn't normal kindy, this is privately-run pre-kindy for 3 year olds.... So I assumed they could make their own rules?? They are teachers, not child care workers, so they don't change nappies... I really wish this wasn't the case

I also sent my DD to a private 3 year old kinder, not a child care centre. No, they won't change nappies, but you won't send her n nappies. But they assist the child with changing in the case of accidents. If you have been to the doctor and she has had medical issues with withholding etc anyway, they certainly cannot discriminate. I would suggest you sitting down with the director and discussing the issue.

Have you tried removing the nappies altogether? As in, they aren't in the house so she has no other option but to go in the toilet?

[Ginger]

ds1 was exactly the same as this. used to beg for a nappy when he needed to poo. eventually one day it all just clicked- he needed a poo and he went to the toilet. it really was a matter of time and patience.
our kinder will take kids in nappies but they will call you to come and change it if they soil it. how many hours is she there for?
fwiw my ds2 is 3 yrs and 10 months and is not TTed. not even for wees.

[sloane]

The kinder that ds is going to would prefer they are toilet trained but said if they aren't just to put them in pull ups because they don't have the facility to change nappies but the same as franipani said, a pull up is no different to changing a pair of undies.

If she had a spot she goes to poo, could you put a potty there? Same idea as the toilet but at least asher can be in her spot?

[goddessofdawn]

Actually when I said she asks for a "nappy" it is really a pull-up - Huggies nappy pants. I have put her potty in the same corner, but she won't sit on it.
Kindy goes for 2.5 hours, twice a week, so the chance of needing to do a poo then is pretty slim, but still.

And now, just over the last couple of days, she is starting to regress with weeing. Last night she asked for a pull-up to do a poo, but she only peed in it.
I made sure she understood that was not on, but she did it again tonight. Lied about needing a nappy to poo in, knowing she only needed to wee.
And she has started going 4-5 hours sometimes without weeing, and crying when she is told to wee. Not sure what to do now. Hopefully this is just temporary.

You all sound like your kindies are more easygoing than mine. Yours have said "prefer" to be tted but mine says "expected" to be tted.
I will try over Christmas and New Year to sort out the poo issue, but if it doesn't resolve by then I will get in touch with the director.

FRANGIPANI LOU ~ You work in a kindy? So what if I suggested that she wears knickers, but if she needs to do a poo she will tell them. Will they help her into a pull-up? And then they could call me to come and change her, which I'm very happy to do (it's just a short drive). Not sure if they'd go for that - do you think that sounds reasonable?

[Frangipani Lou]

Yes, im a Kindergarten teacher working in 4 year old sessional kindergarten with a background in childcare- currently on maternity leave. Yes your idea sounds reasonable. It's unlikely she would do a poo at kinder and might wait until she gets home.
I'd encourage you to request that they change her still though. It is part of their job. Sometimes the 'expected' line is used by some staff because of facilities or because they just don't want to be changing nappies/ pull-ups... almost a snobby thing.
I'd ask them why it's expected, especially in 3year old kindergarten.
On the 'lying'... It's very normal at this age and beyond for children to lie. It's a vital part of brain development and shows a level of maturity vital for self preservation and living in a social world.

[goddessofdawn]

Thanks Frangipani Lou, that was very helpful. We have had kindy orientation so I'm familiar with their facilities - there are 3 toilets (adult sized with step stools) but no facilities for changing. I'm assuming that's what they will tell me. Or the old, "if we do it for one child we'll have to do it for all"...

I will definitely talk to them about it them. I really hope we can come to some kind of agreement. I have had to make peace with the situation, for my own happiness and sanity So if worse comes to worst, I will do my best to find a childcare centre who run a kindy program. DD is *desperate* for kindy. She thrives when in the company of other children, and I feel she really needs this.

Thanks again.

[Frangipani Lou]

Your welcome :-) and good luck. Let us know how it all goes.

[sloane]

Good luck goddess - I hope your dd's kindy is reasonable. I would have thought plenty of 3 year olds would have accidents - there were 3 at our playgroup xmas party and from kids that have been tt for a little while, so they must be used to it?