What to ask before going ahead with a second stim cycle?

[farmgirl77]

Hello all

Our last embie did not make the thaw this week, and so DH and I are back to square one and looking at our second IVF/ICSI cycle in Aug/Sept of this year. The number from our first lot of treatment are not great - 12 mature eggs collected/5 embryos/four frozen/2 survived the thaw. We had only three transfered (1 fresh, 2 thaw) and each time a BFN - not even the hint of a BFP. While I realise this set of numbers is not outside what is considered 'normal' (as everyone keeps telling me), I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on what we should be asking our FS before we start the next lot of treatment?

I'm really feeling like a failure at the moment, and just want to feel like I'm doing something positive to increase our chances for next time.

Thanks
FG

[Kahlan]

Hello all

I'm really feeling like a failure at the moment, and just want to feel like I'm doing something positive to increase our chances for next time.

Thanks
FG

Hi FG

I so sorry the first lot of cycles were unsuccessful for you. I am in the same boat.

It appears you had a reasonable number of mature egg collected. I am not sure what doses you were on or whether you had day 3 transfer or not. I think it is important that you ask your FS about these things, that is,

1. Was my med dose optimal (it seems yes if you had 12 mature eggs)
2. Should I consider day 5 vs day 3 (From my understanding day 5 embies have a much higher success rate. I had 3 failed day 3 transfers and my first day 5 was successful, only that I later m/c... how unlucky yeah?).
3. Should I have 1 or 2 embies transfer... what are the pros and cons?

Good luck with your cycles... I would probably be doing my next cycle at the same time with you... keep us posted.

Kahlan

[Batcoat]

The number from our first lot of treatment are not great - 12 mature eggs collected/5 embryos/four frozen/2 survived the thaw. We had only three transfered (1 fresh, 2 thaw) and each time a BFN - not even the hint of a BFP. While I realise this set of numbers is not outside what is considered 'normal' (as everyone keeps telling me),

Wow, I would have been happy with 12 eggs.

We've had 39 eggs from 5 stims/10 embryos transferred from 7 ETs (5 fresh 2 FETs). No hit of a BFP either.


Your FS will no doubt adjust your meds a little.

IVF is a numbers game. Clinics say that you should be pregnant within 3 stims (not including FETS. So around 7-10 transfers). I know it's not what you want to hear, but don't stress at this early stage.

Good Luck

[dusty]

Hi FG

I am so sorry your last embie didn't make it hun. That must have been so so dissapointing for you both.

I think they will have learnt a lot from your first stim cycle so the FS will probably tweak your drugs to ensure a good result for you. Your numbers were actually pretty spot on as they try to aim for 10-15 eggs to ensure quality and reduce risk of OHSS.

In regards to helping the implantation, I have never had one (but am still trying!) but there are things you can do to help yourself, so that you at least feel you are doing all that you can.

You may already be doing acupuncture, but if not, I find it incredibly good firstly for relaxation (my bliss out I call it), and secondly there have been some medical studies that suggest there may be benefits to having AP leading up to and during an IVF cycle. Perhaps find a good AP near you that has some IVF/ TCC experience/success.

You may like to reduce the stress in your life for a while. A lot of people just add IVF on top of a busy life but I have found that life sometimes needs to fit a bit around IVF, especially during a stim cycle.

I remember BW was on a special low GI diet from her FS perhaps you could ask her about it.

Egg quality can vary each month but the more you do to help it be at an optimum the better chance for fertilisation and producing strong embies that can cope with thaws. My sister spent much time on herbal tinctures and heathy eating to ensure any eggs she produced (PCOS) were optimum and she fell pg against all odds.

Anyway these a few of the things I thought may help you to do all you can to help your chances of implantation of a good embie. Batcoat has a point (as you did too) that it is a numbers game sometimes. It hurts when it doesn't work and other people's does but persistence may just be the key.

Best of luck with it all hun.

xx

[Bel]

Hi Farm Girl

I totally understand where you are coming from. Out of 6 frozen embies I got just one survivng the thaw. It's just heart breaking isn't it? I did get a BFP out of that 1 but miscarried.

After a few failed cycles and on advice from the nurses at my clinic I have just changed to a new FS. Within 2 weeks of our initial appointment with him, I had a histeroscopy, D&C and a lap done. He found endo which my old FS never even thought of. I've had it all removed now and am having another FET cycle next month. Have you had any investigative surgery done?? I'm so glad I finally did.

The other thing my new FS has talked to us about is giving my body more support after a TF. He says that if AF is coming before your BT date (which always happened to me) it could indicate you are not getting enough support-drug wise. So he is going to give me extra support next cycle.

Another very very scary thing, is that we had 4 embies frozen at blastocyst. He wants to thaw all 4 and pick the best 2. It is his opinion that only the best quality embies from a cycle should be transferred to give you the highest chance of a live birth.

And the last thing he is doing differently, is my transfers will be done under ultrasound. He says he likes to see exactly where the little embie goes, to make sure he has exactly the right spot.

I know not all these options are suitable for everyone but I hope maybe this gives you some ideas to talk to your FS about.

I also will not do a cycle without IVF. My FS says it is a must too.

Looking forward to hearing how things go for you.

Hugs Bel

[Nicole S]

Hi FG, I think all the ladies have given you allot of great advise....but all I wanted to say was that you are NOT a failure. Don't give up!!
For all the couples doing IVF we are a courageous bunch of people, with incredible strength to keep going....
Take credit for what you want to achieve and the actions you take to get there.
I know this is easier said than done, and I too feel like I fail every month AF arrives...but you must try to keep positive that your journey will take you to your destination.
You WILL hold a beautiful baby in your arms and all this will be a distant memory.
As for anything else you could do...I say take a mini break. DH and I are heading off into the sunset after our first unsuccessful STIM cycle before we start another one next month.
Take care of yourself, and sorry about the waffle

[farmgirl77]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the advice. I've spoken to our FS about other tests that we could do, but she is not keen to yet - does not think that we have had enough put back to warrent that approach - I think that is also her approach to day 5 blasts - so far we have had day threes. I'm on progesteron post transfer as I get lots of spotting, so fingers crossed that base is covered. I really just hope it is a numbers game and next time ours comes up. Since this post my SIL announced her second pg - I'm so mad that they did not consider where we were up to with our treatment before telling us - I think waiting just a week would have allowed me to deal with it just that bit better and would have lessened the felling of loss.

Nicole - I hope that you enjoy your break, sounds like a great idea and am sure it is well deserved. Hope that it is the perfect springboard for a succesful cycle.

Dusty - am sending you so many positive vibes, what an amazing journey you are on and I dont know how you stay so sane and giving.

Bel - thanks for the insights into your treatment - it sounds like a different approach and I hope that it works for you - it does seem to make sense. We too are trying to keep going with IVF with everycycle - we have only missed one due to study pressures, but it does take an emotional toll.

Kahlan - thanks for your advice on the questions - the 1 vs 2 is a big one and something that we are seriously considering...I look forward to being a cycle buddy : ) Good luck!

Batcoat - thanks for the perspective - it is so hard to be positive about how we go. I wish you a BFP

Good luck all and thanks for the support

[Nicole S]

FG just wanted to drop past and give you a
I can still remember when I found out my SIL was pg with # 2 it was a month after I had a MC.... and must say it had the worst timing in my life.
IVF is a numbers game and I hope that your time is up and a BFP is just around the corner.

[bullfish693]

hi farm girl, i guess by now you would of started your cycle however, i thought i'd post a comment just in case...

I am very sorry to hear that your last emby did not work....I too know where your at...as i have just lost our bub at 6mths and then went back to use our last egg and i too had a lot riding on that last egg....For me my egg pick up went bad...i had a pierced bowl from the needle used and did not get to use a fresh emby so last year from that egg pick up we got 9 eggs retrieved 7 were fertilized and all were frozen and all survied the thawing process for day 3 transers...
attempt #1, fet, day 2emby-BFP mc @ 6wks
#2, fet, day 2 emby - BFN
#3, fet, day 2 emby - BFN
#4, fet, day 2 emby - BFN
#5, fet, day 2 emby, natural cycle, 2 emby transfer- BFP no HB @ 26weeks
#6, fet, day 2 emby, natural cycle, last attempt BFN

My point by typing all of this out was have you tried a natural cycle, with no progesterone pessuries and no meds...i felt alot better during the cycles as well...
I hope your egg pick up went well and you got lots of eggs to work with..Goodluck with you journey...
i am on a 2 month break before going for next epu and really firghtend about it
cheers cara

[dusty]

Hi Cara

I wanted to welcome you to Belly Belly. It sounds like you have had such a tough journey and I also wanted to wish you well with your next cycle. This is FarmGirls thread, but since you have found it I wanted to also point you in the direction of the LTTTC/AC General Thread where people going through cycles/AC can support each other among those that really get it and what you are going through. You can find it here.

Also if you want to introduce yourself to Belly Belly as a whole you can do in the Introductions thread.

I hope you will enjoy BB. The moderators are Sushee, Gargy and myself in the LTTTC/AC area and we can point you in the right direction if you need it, as can the other BB members.

xx

[farmgirl77]

Hi Cara,
Thanks for the suggestion - I'm not sure that a natural cycle would work for me as I get spotting after 'O' to AF, so progesterone seems to be required, but it is something that I'll ask about as the meds are not fun!

Thanks for your input and I wish you well for your next EPU. It seems like you have had a hard road so far. Good luck and hope that you are rewarded soon with the baby you deserve. good luck.
FG