Dont want to immunise, but.....(Micheal??)

[Pretty Butterfly]

Ok, we have 5 fully immunised kidlets, 3 in school... 3 at home full time.

Little Harmony is fully breastfed,and in a sling everywhere we go. We stay home Mon-Fri anyway.

We didn't have Hep B or Vit K at birth.

She will be in no care until preschool.
So me and DH decided to not vac, at least for a while. Delayed Vacs is what we are looking at.

BUT... with 3 older siblings in school, is there any vac that she should get?? Is there anything they are likely to bring home that could harm her??

The other 2 kids at home have had no illness at all, the older 3 have all had chicken pox, one of them got it twice!!

MY older DD had rotovirus at 2, but it wasn't a bad dose, the horror stories of the actual vac are scarier to me!!

I found a study that showed in Japan, vacs aren't given till the age of 2, and they have the lowest child death rate in the developed world, and a significent lower percentage of Autism. They also split the MMR and I dont *think* they combine any vacs together...

So, is there anything we should get now, or can we delay them all???

[Oorki Galoorki]

Welcome to VISA Investigate Before You Vaccinate

its SA based but lots of info..
my DD's pead was happy enough when we said we werent vaxing yet(no real plans too) he just said if she shows symptoms of something go straight to hospital to have her checked out.

being that your kids are in school as well as home you know what is going around..(we are just at home so have no idea whats happening in the towns children iykwim)

there are the homoepathic immunisations available if you want to vax against something inparticular.

HTH

[Pretty Butterfly]

Thanks hon!!
I had decided to not vacs, but after reading that... my god.....I dont wanna give her anything, even delayed vacs....

Up until 2001,(thats when the study ended, not they found cases of Autism..) not one child that didn't get vac, had ever developed Autism...How can they not make this public knowledge???

And the ingredients.... *shudders*....

[Oorki Galoorki]

there are other ways to treat illnesses! we dont have to immunise against everything that makes us sick or potentially worse...
bfing is the best for helping the immune system which you already know..
we are just going with the flow but i know (in my heart) that i couldnt make my self harm dd(yes DS is fully vaxed too up until now)although he wont be having his 4yr old and he didnt have chicken pox or vit k at birth...
we can only do what we know at the time..

[Pretty Butterfly]

Yeah, I wish i'd known all this earlier!!!

I keep digging and digging, (driving DH crazy!), and underdeveloped countries, who rarley vacs, have almost no Autism, asthma and excema?? And they live in squalled, dusty dirty conditions....

Also, just as the rate of these infectious diseases were going down, due to better living conditions, we started to vacs, and they started to go back up!!!! Its just mad.....

We are seriously thinking instead of delayed vacs, we'll just the pertinent ones when needed.... like chicken pox before high school if they dont get it before hand....

[Michelle71]

Personally, if you are going to partially immunise I would not get the chicken pox one but I would get the whooping cough, tetanus and german measles immunisations (because she is a girl but that can be later). JMO though

[Pretty Butterfly]

Personally, if you are going to partially immunise I would not get the chicken pox one but I would get the whooping cough, tetanus and german measles immunisations (because she is a girl but that can be later). JMO though

Yep. Will get Tetanus when she walks, and german measles at 12-13. I dont think you can get Whooping Cough on its own, I'm looking into that one still!!! My blue book says ita all combined....

I thought chicken pox got dangerous (as in extremly sick) as you get older. Is that not the case? If she doesn't really need it, I dont want her to have it!!!

[Michelle71]

Not as bad as measles. Chicken pox is more dangerous as an infant with a high mortality rate. It is only a recently introduced vaccine. Just make sure whatever you decide is clearly documented for her and she is aware of her status. Especially as she gets older and may want to travel to places where some of the diseases are more prevalent.

[Arcadia]

Delayed vacc is an interesting question which i asked the dr about. He said the reason they give them so young is because until 8 mths the baby still has antibodies from the placenta present as well as breastmilk in bf babies. After 8 mths is usually when little babies start to get sick, so vaccinations are given from a young age to develop their own personal antibodies before the placental antibodies recede (i can't remember all the technical terms).

I haven't researched this point myself, but I would be interested to hear if this true, or as is often the case, the dr was just trying gto talk us into vax.

[HotI]

[QUOTE=Pretty Butterfly;1696077]Thanks hon!!
Up until 2001,(thats when the study ended, not they found cases of Autism..) not one child that didn't get vac, had ever developed Autism...How can they not make this public knowledge???
QUOTE]

Can you point me to this study? I had a look on the site the previous poster put up but couldn't find it.

A recent press release came out that the original study that found a link between immunisation and autism had serious flaws and the conclusions could not be sustained by the evidence. [Of course i can't find the link now when i need it, but will keep looking] Again, research since then may have shown a link, but the original one had flaws.

ETA- found it!


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5683643.ece

I keep digging and digging, (driving DH crazy!), and underdeveloped countries, who rarley vacs, have almost no Autism, asthma and excema?? And they live in squalled, dusty dirty conditions....

I haven't looked into this, so can't agree or disagree but maybe the conditions are just not diagnosed because people don't have as ready access to medical care in those countries. i visited a university and teaching hospital in Cambodia a few years ago, and they had one treatment for cancer. No matter what sort of cancer you had, only one treatment was available.

People only went to hospital for care when their cancer was very advanced, and treatment wasn't going to help and they died. People then thought if you go to hospital, you are going to die, so you only go when it is really bad. And most people could not afford costs of treatment anyway. Vicious circle.

So my point is that these conditions may be occurring less in these countries, and if so we may be able to find reasons (maybe we need more dirt?), but it may be they occur at same rate but are just not diagnosed because children die early or just do not get medical attention where the condition could be diagnosed.

[Pretty Butterfly]

That is true too....

There are really sooo many sides...

I'm trying to find the other part for you, but the exact line is... "We have found NO cases of it developing in a previous healthy unvaccinated child"....

It is also the ingredients that bother me a LOT, not just the autism "link".

I am just looking at from another point of view... they may not be able to find the exact link yet to the cause of autism, but the lack of it in unvaccinated kids cant be ignored... and there are so many other problems with the vacs, not just this one problem.. the list seems endless....

" The same happened in Japan after 1975 when the vaccination age was lifted to 2 years, Japan zoomed from a much higher rate(17th place) to the lowest mortality rate (1st place) in the world"... again, no proof it causes anything, but there is proof in not giving vacs...

" After the US mandated the DPT vaccine there was a doccumented 300% sustained increase in the reported cases of whooping cough, and it is still rising, to the point that, with mandatory vaccination in most states and 5 doses of the vaccine, it now occurs at a far higher rate then before the introduction of the vaccine."

"Indeed, despite the overall far superior living standards in other respects - better housing, clean water, nutrition, etc, the US infant mortality rates rival those of the third world. Significantly it went from 6th place in the world in the early fifties before mass vaccination started to 20th place by 1990, and it has since dropped several ranks further (down to 26th place a few years ago). Similarly, measles had virtually disappeared in Europe, UNTIL vaccination began, after which it rose again."

Uuummm, so much thinking to do.....

[Arcadia]

Just to position myself...I am choosing to vax DD, but I truly think your concerns are valid ones. I have had to think about possible side effects a lot, and I am still nervous about the whole thing (we go for the first shot on Thurs), but I find it interesting that the debate about vaccinations always focusses on the negatives of vaccinations.

I must admit I found myself overwhemed by the possibility of side effects, and the study linking MMR to autism, but I realised I was just focussing on the negatives of vax, not the positive outcomes the majority of people experience - namely a high percentage (although not total) immunity from some nasty and deadly diseases.

I think its interesting that we in a first world nation are now choosing not to vax, when people in third world nations could be saved if given access to the same vax programs.

I could have gone either way...it really is a tough decision.

[Oorki Galoorki]

i think you might find the reason that alot of "negative" information is out here is due to the fact that only "positive" info is coming from the doctors that do these immunisations
there is always 2 sides of the story which means that very few people are nuetral.
and research is always twisted to a particular way depending on the persons personal opinion

[Mumma2three]

just letting you know, Sydney now has an outbreak of Whooping cough. There is no way I wouldn't vaccinate my third as his two older sisters are at school/kindy. To me whooping cough is too scary (especially in under 1year old).
I have been a bit weary of vaccine's but am going to get them for DS. I avoided Hep B, dont think it's necessary, but will get the rest. A nurse told me yesterday that a positive of the chick pox vax is that you can't get shingles later if you've never had chicken pox. Shingles is chick pox lying dormant in your body after chick pox and is terrible. That was something I didnt know. I didnt immunise DD1 with it but she chose to have it at 8 years as she had decided she didnt' want to catch it!
As for Japan, I had that same thought, but the thing with Japan is (as my Kenisiologist pointed out) they aren't as multicultural as us, therefore we have more risk here.
I would definitely see if you can get the whooping cough vax. It's been around our school and is going around many others. xo

[Kitt3n]

you know i have really thought about this, and if the whooping cough vaccine was worth the risk then there wouldnt be any around, because it would have worked!

[Pretty Butterfly]

Thats what I think too Kitten.... The rate is now higher, not lower.... same with many of the vacs, theres now more problems than before....

We were all vac as kids, and still got chicken pox, measles, mumps etc....
and I got chicken pox bad....


We didn't get Harmony vac after much talk with DH.... she is at such a low risk.... not worth the risk to us.... all the shots are together.. the whole lot except rotovirus... not impressed....

I'll review how we feel at the 4 month ones.....

[Peg]

Delayed vacc is an interesting question which i asked the dr about. He said the reason they give them so young is because until 8 mths the baby still has antibodies from the placenta present as well as breastmilk in bf babies. After 8 mths is usually when little babies start to get sick, so vaccinations are given from a young age to develop their own personal antibodies before the placental antibodies recede (i can't remember all the technical terms).

I haven't researched this point myself, but I would be interested to hear if this true, or as is often the case, the dr was just trying gto talk us into vax.

Its partially right. Babies get antibodies from the mother whilst breast feeding and some still in the system for a while.

the thing is that a baby does not have an immune system until after 6 months. So if vaccines are given to newborns, its not really going to be good for it because there is no immune system to develop.

After i learned that fact, and the dr confirmed it, I asked why they bother giving vaccines at all and the dr didn't have an answer.

Its seems pretty logical to me that if vaccines are meant to 'build' up the immune system, a baby without an immune system is really just getting a vile of toxic chemicals.

[Janie]

Surely babies have some sort of immune system happening before 6 months???? I know the immune system is a very complex thing, but that just seems wrong to me, that they have none????