Calling Herbalists - Vitex & MC - Any link??

[Darily]

Hi ladies,

I am so confused right now

My first attempt with Vitex and VB6 landed me a BFP, however I had a missed miscarriage at 6wks 6days. I was taking 2 600mg Vitex tablets and 1 200mg Vitamin B6 tablet every morning, aswell as my folate tabs.

I swore the miscarriage was caused by the Vitex, and promised never to use it again. I keep hearing so many stories of women falling pg immediately using Vitex then miscarrying weeks later. It's really hard to not want to use it again when it worked like magic last time around, so I guess I'm trying to convince myself that the Vitex wasn't to blame.

Does anyone else have any experiences or stories that have them suspecting a link between Vitex and miscarriage?

How many mg of Vitex and VB6 did you take?

I am planning on starting 100mg of VB6 as of CD1, but if anyone can convince me to try to Vitex again, I'd love to hear from you!

Whatever happens, another loss is all I want to try and prevent.

[Frantelle]

I do not know much about Vitex but it is a very powerful herb..It completely messed with my cycle when I took it (and not in a good way). I would recommend seeing a professional natural path as I personally beleive that it can be too strong for some.

[Nicambhar]

Em, sorry I only have a bad story.. I am convinced that Vitex caused my mc's. I had a mc at 15weeks in aug 06 and started ttc again in feb 07 with no luck and started to take the vitex around July and it all went downhill from there. I had one confirmed mc and I dont know if the others were chemical pg's but had a couple of cycles with +ve hpts and triphasic charts and just ended up bleeding before the 5th week.
I stopped the vitex and gave up hope basically until one day I saw a sign for a chinese medicine man. I have had about 4 weeks of weekly acupuncture and chinese herbs and am so shocked to find out that I am pg and so far so good.
Best of luck with your decision. Just be wary of the vitex though, my naturopath told me that it is very powerful stuff. It also messed my cycles a bit just like kylie.

[Epacris]

I’m so sorry to hear of the loss of your little peanut.

It was the complete opposite with Vitex and MC for me.

I had a MC in Nov 05 (blighted ovum discovered at 9.5 weeks) and a D&C. Still no AF in Feb 06. I started taking Vitex, 2ml of the liquid stuff in a glass of juice every morning. I started having tests to determine the lack of AF, and what do you know, a surprise BFP. I swear it was the Vitex that made me O, I would have Oed two weeks after I started taking it.

Please remember, all this could just be a coincidence. But it’s hard not to read into things when you want something so bad.

Good luck to you! But please remember, MCs sometimes just happen no matter what you do, as do BFPs (of course the BDing helps with that one)!

ETA: When I got my BFP I was about 5 weeks pregnant. I tapered down the dose rather than just stopping completely, i.e. I was taking 2ml every day so I started taking 1ml every day for one week, then 1ml every second day for another week, then stopped.

[tempus moriendi]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Personally, I stop all herbs the very first day my temp goes up, just to be sure. And I can't guarantee that that's good enough, either. But best of luck.

[ticklish]

Hi Darily,

How are you going? It is so easy to search for answers to try and work out what went wrong. I hope you find your answer. Unfortunately in most instances like these there isn't one.

Do you have impaired ovarian function?

One reason that vitex is cautiously prescribed by Naturopaths in some women is that while it can increase FSH levels, it can also increase LH levels too. In women, like me, who have stupid ovaries and PCO/S, an increased LH is not needed. I have read a few sources which do link a high LH level with an increased risk of miscarriage.

B6 can help fertility. Me, I take it at 50mg when TTC. I think 100mg is a bit high without being under the care of a health professional because that level is a therapeutic dose - although some sources will day 200mg is quite safe.

If you want the name of reputable naturopaths in Melbourne - ones which fertility specialist refer their patients to - I can give you the details, PM me. These naturopaths are also involved currently in studying Vitex with fertility specialists and its role in fertility - so are recognised as experts in their field and may have the answers you are looking for and advice for minimising the chances of another loss. I had success with them with my second pregnancy.

All the best.
TICKLISH

[Darily]

Hey Ticklish,

Sooo glad you are doing well. Nearly 20 weeks, I'm really happy for you.

No, I don't have impaired ovarian function, or impaired anything else that I know of. I'm just being impatient I guess, and want to do/take anything I can to get a BFP and smile again.

Just typing this right now makes me think I just need to relax and time will sort it all out, but I guess I'm over waiting.

I would love the names of the Naturopaths you mention, that would be great.

I am booked in this Thursday to start acupuncture and perhaps some Chinese Medicine to regulate things after the miscarriage. My issue is that my cycles are quite long, between 35 - 40 days most months, and I don't tend to ovulate until CD 21 - 23. Hopefully the herbs will help.

I still feel sad every single day, and Christmas this year just didn't excite me at all when I usually have the best day ever. I guess I'm just not where I thought I was going to be this Xmas.

Fingers crosses this acupuncture does the trick, and I'm getting very fat very soon!

Take care Ticklish x

[Angelgirl]

Hi Darily,

I haven't had any experience with vitex but I've just done a google-scholar search and it seems that vitex is used to assist with conception but that it should not be used once you fall pregnant so maybe the idea others have had of using it until you ovulate and then stop would be the go? HTH and good luck, I have fingers crossed that you're announcing your BFP really soon.

[tempus moriendi]

Darily: having long cycles isn't necessarily bad, you just have to be more diligent to pinpoint when you ovulate. Do you check CM or do any charting?

[Darily]

Hi Tempus,

Yes, I temp, check CM, use OPK's, get O pain (usually) . . . the works! So, generally I know that I ovulate around CD20 - CD23, however every few cycles it's delayed a little for some reason and I O around CD28.

I think I do everything I can to get the timing right, but sometimes it can be tricky. For eg, I never get what is considered a true + OPK. Mine are always not quite as dark as the control line, but for me, that's a positive. Took me a few cycles to work that one out!

I have heard that optimal chances of conception occur when your cycles are not too long, so I'd love to make mine a little shorter if I can, plus that means the wait to ovulate isn't as long too

[~Raven~]

Sorry for your loss.

I used vitex to shorten and regulate my cycle when I was TTC Caleb as it was all over the place.

I researched it and decided that as it wasn't recommended during PG that I would only take it up until I knew I had ovulated.
Not sure if that helps you as you didn't say if you took it the whole cycle or just part of it.

I also read that once your cycle becomes regulated you can reduce the dose. I didn't get a chance to try that as it only took a few cycles taking vitex to conceive. It did shorten my cycle to 27 days for the last 3 before Caleb was conceived.

[Darily]

That's interesting Raven.

Can I ask you how much (mg) you took each day, and whether it was tablet or tincture?

I took 2 x 600mg tablets every morning until I got a BFP, which was on 12DPO. If I ever do try it again, I will definitely be stopping when I O.

I'm just so scared that Vitex was the cause of my miscarriage, that I don't know if I will ever feel comfy using it again. But on the reverse side, it worked first try, and that's mighty tempting

[~Raven~]

I really can't remember the dose I took. It was in capsule form if that helps.

Perhaps you could TTC without it and try it again if you are unsuccessful or you cycle isn't regular. I can understand your apprehension in using it again

[Darily]

Yeah, that's where my thoughts are heading at the moment . . . try the next month or two without it and see what happens.

I'm booked in to start Acpuncture tomorrow afternoon, so I'm excited and positive about that. Also, AF arrived today which is great, as I've been waiting for her.

With every CD 1 comes the countdown to O, so at least I'm on my way again!!

[smiles4u]

A big " HI " to you Darily,
At 37 I had a miscarriage very early on in my pregnancy on the Queen's B'day back in 2004, hard to enjoy that public holiday when it's such a reminder.
Anyway, I had a lap at 38 and the Gyno (also a well-known IVF specialist in Melb) told me my plumbing was great. Whilst he was in there with the lap, he said he gave my pipes a clean out while he was in there.
He then put me on Clomid for 5mths, regardless that the fact I had NO prob with my ovulation cycle. I had every side effect mentioned about the Clomid tabs on it's instruction sheet.
My Gyno told me I had no other option to try and fall pregnant other then embarking on IVF.
I got put off when I rang the IVF clinic to ask what the costs are involved and the receptionist was rude about it and wouldn't give me an answer or who I could ask.
So, I rang my Gyno and told him the story and for strange reason he recommended I ring another IVF plc that he said could do me a cheaper deal ... Note I still have no answers. Rang this other clinic with hesitation and was spoken in the same rude manner with NO answer to cost fees again.
After that appt I visitd my younger sister and she suggested giving The Ruth Sharkeys Healing Centre in QLD try, she' seen her on telly.
I thought what have I got to lose other then my time as I was getting older.
So, I contacted them and they told me one of the reasons I wasn't falling pregnant was because my cycle was a 31 to 33 day ... And they wanted to help my cycle become a 28 or 29 day cycle by taking their HERBAL FORMULA that is personally made for you. I thought are they kidding, I hadn't had a cycle like that for over a decade.
After taking the Herbal Formula for 4mths my cycle DID become a 28 to 29 day cycle ... And PRESTO 4mths after that I was pregnant at 39.
I gave birth to our precious and healthy daughter just a few mths after my 40th b'day : )
The program is truely not expensive like some think ... Gee, we just got locked into a mortgage and I had just left my job, so we were on one income AND we didn't struggle.

So, if nothing else appears to be working for you, ... Why, not consider The Ruth Sharkeys Centre ... They have a website of the same name !!

Sending positive thoughts & well wishes your way

[tempus moriendi]

Just because the topic got on cycle length, just wanted to ask. Was the problem the cycle length itself, or that there was something wrong with the luteal phase (meaning the time from O to AF--should be 14 days)?

[issy02]

Hi smiles4U,

I also have long cycles, 33-35 days and I ovulate quite late in my cycle. I'm taking vitex to try and make my cycles shorter and I'm hoping this will work. I have had 2 m/c in 9 months (5 weeks and 6 weeks), one just the other day, on new years eve of all days! I tried clomid 9 months ago to induce ovulation as I wasnt ovulating at all, which helped me ovulate and gave me a perfect BBT chart but my cycles were still 33 days. I did conceive on one of these cycles but m/c very early.

Just wandering how long cylces affect your ability to conceive or rather hold onto the little ones? Sorry if this seems to be a stupid question.

[klee]

Hi darily, I've been thinking of you often hon, and wonder how you are doing? I just wanted to say good luck with the acupuncture, I'm a true believer in its powers, its helped me through so much this past year, and I believe that it was this with a little help from df that helped me fall this time. Is your acupuncturist a Chinese herbalist also? The only reason I ask is that if you are put on herbs you may find that they contain vitex anyway, just more than likely in a mix with other herbs and in a much smaller dose then to what you have previously taken. I was on a mix of it with quite a few other herbs the month I conceived, I only needed to take it for that month then stop. Once we got the news we were pg she started me on other herbs to the 12 week mark basically to maintain the pg and strengthen the foetus. I'd love to hear how you are and how your acupuncture goes and what you think of it. Look after yourself.