TTC after Late Loss, Recurrent Miscarriage or Stillbirth ~ #4 2011

Grr just did a big post and is didnt come up!! Will try and re write but I can never say it the same a second time!

LadyTess - Im so sorry for the insensitivity of the health nurse. Someone has obviously stuffed up big time by not having your medical history up to date. Congratulations on your pregnancy! I can totally understand avoiding the drs, in my latest experiences all they have bought is bad news, I know its not their fault but I am very antsy at the drs now where I never had an issue before.

Skybie and Tashy - I dont have any magical words for either of you, my heart breaks for you both and for your losses. Big hugs to you both.

Gigi and Dory - Ok lovely ladies, you both asked some questions and I hope I answer them properly. Ever since I had my DD i have had problems with abnormal pap tests. CN1, CN2 and CN3 refer to the abnormal cell changes before the cells are cervical cancer. I have had 5 treatments now, some cervial diathermy (burning of lininig) and freezing. My ob/gyn last time said hurry up and have babies and then if it turns to cancer (as I had CN3's) I can have a hysterectomy. SO I had a pap test 2 weeks ago and got the call back in, abnormal cell changes but only early changes so I have decided to wait 6 months and retest. Will give myself 6 months to TTC and then if not UTD will have treatment.

While at the drs the preliminary post mortem results were back for my James. They say it was probably placenta insufficiency. His placenta was only the size of 19-20 weeks when he was born at 27 weeks. They think - but said cant know for sure, that it may have something to do with a bleed I had at around 10 weeks. They said only a 6% chance of it happening again. I have found a little bit of peace but still feel like my body failed him, that it should have done what it was meant to do.

A childless friend of mine said the other day that I will probably get over James when I have another baby... I just stared at her and said that no matter how many babies I have I will always be one baby short. Some people either just dont get it or really dont think before they speak. I know it's just that I am sensitive at the moment but my Nephews girlfriend is pregnant and wont stop saying on FB how much she is hating it and cant stop vomiting cause of the stupid baby. I just get so angry! Its worse cause its my husbands family - if it keeps up for my own mental health I think I will have to block her. Anyone else have this problem?

I better go lovely ladies and cook some tea. I hope you all have a lovely weekend. Much love and strength to you all, Trace xoxoxo

HI all, thanks for the kind words Lady-Tess.
I am sorry I can't say much atm . Just managing to cope (a bit) with our very upset world here.
It's only little issues but combined I am finding things tough.
Our car broke down and we had it fixed but all advice is to get another one......I really didn't want this hassle while I am pg. Because of this I spent all last week being a taxi for hubby so I had a car while he was at work. Made me tired.
My little dog went in for surgery today. All good but because of my medical experiences I was very stressed that he wouldn't survive the aneasthetic. He had to have three teeth removed and some stiches in one of his gums. He should be OK.
A friend who was trying to get pg while I was pg with Ellen had her first baby this week. I have found it hard to cope with. I am happy for her but feel ripped off that I didn't get to hold my angel and she has a living one before me..............stupid I know!!!!!
I have another friend due in about 3 weeks.....I'm trying to behave properly but it's tough.
So I am sorry I haven't been here much

I am sorry I haven't had time to properly be involved here.

kateo: omg i feel the same way. My friend is pg and due in december and the thought that she is going to have a baby to take home and I dont kills me :/
emilyjames: i guess thats a typical comment from someone with no children. You will never get over James :hug:

AFM: So I went back to the FS and he goes youve ovulated. Im like WHAT? He's like yeah Im like wow *add disappointed face here*

So I asked him questions about rupturing, placenta accreta, previa and another placental abruption. He recons there is a less than 5% chance of another abruption and accreta is so rare hes never seen it.

I also told him he is too expensive for an ob. lol. Hes like really? And Im like yes, I called Price and Steele and they are way cheaper. He then proceeded to try and sell himself to me lol. He said he can give me a nice discount :D Which worked because I feel so bloody safe in his hands :/

Next I said are you sure I ovulated?!? And he gets out the results again and goes oh no look you havent(read May last year not this year). Pheww. So I got my clomid and a script for provera too. He said if AF hasnt come in 2 weeks to start that. So as soon as AF starts I start clomid.

SO now Im thinking..

I did some calculations.. If I started taking the provera say tomorrow for 7 days and it should make you bleed within the next 7 days after the last tablet. So the 19th would be the start of LMP which would make Estimated Due Date (40 weeks full term): Thursday 29 March 2012. (Say c section at 37w on 8th March)

So if i waited the 2 weeks LMP would be 30th June and Estimated Due Date (40 weeks full term): Monday 09 April 2012. (Say c section at 37w on 19th March)

Anyway this is only if we do get pregnant on the first cycle. So my question/dilemma is..

As much as we want a baby is it horrible to have it so close to H's birthday? Last night I was thinking maybe as much as I want another baby... am I ready emotionally? How do I know? I know her birthday will be a horrible time but a baby around the same time? I dunno WTYT?

Hello everyone, i know i've been on and off here, but just thought i would pop my head in.....

Ahurani, just wanted to say big hugs :) i was having the same dilemma about when to try for another baby. i know everyone is different, some people need to be pregnant or have a baby to get through that first year, but for me personally.....i didn't want to have a baby or be close around J's birthday. I kind of wanted that time to be all about him, and for our focus to be on him....BUT that's just how we feel....i know there are others who want different. so hope this helps a little.....hope you can start trying pretty soon, it's nice when OB's go out of their way to help you, im glad you have one you really like :)

Lady-Tess - OH MY GOSH!!!! what an effing rude and clueless HCN. and what gives her the right to call you up anyway and berate you, even if your boy was alive? i'd like to say put in a complaint or something, but i know with things like this it's easier just to let them go. i had problems with the funeral parlor lady and an urn i ordered for J. she treated me so rude, and everyone was so fired up about it, but seriously i was just not emotionally able to do anything with it....so sorry you've gone through that.

Tashy, im not sure whats happening as i can't read your link, but i just wanted to say im so sorry for whatever it is, and huge huge hugs!

Skybie, im sorry as well for what you've gone through it's just not fair :( big hugs to you too xxx

EmilyJames, i know what you feel about insensitive people as well, i have a friend who is due in December, and when she announced on FB she was having a boy, she sent me an sms saying 'It's a boy!!! :)' and that was it.....no 'im sorry, this must be hard,' etc, just a huge slap in the face....grrr some people just really don't get it, do they?

Kateo, im so sorry, it is really hard isn't it.....another friend was pg, and turned up to pre school last week with her 6 day old little boy....man it really sucked seeing her holding her little boy who was living and breathing and happy....i mean, i was happy for her, cause i know she was worried after what happened to me, but still....i wish i could have been a part of that, you know? and the day after a few people asked me how i was and knew it must have been hard, and i thought, 'was i that obvious??'

and to everyone else i've missed, :hello: hope everyone is going well....

well for me, im terrified, BUT me and DH decided that i should come off the pill as of today....im soooo scared! but as i said to DH i just can't get another baby out of my head. i've started going to a support group, so im getting some counselling and stuff....it's just going to be a very scary journey.

Hi ladies.

Well I've got some news today.

I got a :bfp: yesterday and this morning so I guess it's official! I'm pregnant!

Also very nervous as I know the risk of miscarriage is high as I've been on clomid. Also scared if I'm carrying twins. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

Very tired. Headachey, not many other symptoms yet.

Thank you for all your support ladies. :) xx I will continue to stalk if that's ok?


Sent from my iPhone (via Tapatalk) so please forgive the spelling mistakes...

Yay LysnDan!!! Congrats hun :dance:and wishing you a smooth road ahead :)

PS I'm loving the due date!

Lady Tess - I can't believe that health nurse.. That must have been the most difficult thing to have to listen to.. I had to call up and get Taite and Seth taken off my medicare card and the guy said something about me not having custody of them, or who's got them now, (something like that, can't really remember) and I said bluntly "No one has them. They're dead" He quickly apologised.

Emily James - Sorry your friend was so insensitive.

MummyDreamer - Good luck coming off the pill, I hope your cycles go back to normal quickly. It is a scary journey, but it will hopefully be worth it. xx

Lysndan _ Congratulations!!! I love the EDD too :)

Hello to Everyone else I have missed

Thanks Blessed, im terrified, but hopefully it will be an okay journey. at least i have heap load of support, which is the most important thing.

LynsDan - congratulations! hope its an easy journey for you xoxo

Oh it has been busy in here and so easy to get confused when we don't know so much about each other or can associate a face to a story. Right time to get my head around it.

Firstly LysnD- Congratulations sweety, hope you have a happy and healthy pregnancy. I am thrilled for you and your DP/H. Hope you can get some rest and enjoy the highlights hun. xoxo Good luck and best wishes. P.s. stalk as long as you like and don't be a stranger. i suspect as others have found, it is still pretty comfy i here.

MD- Wow, off the pill and let the adventure begin. I hope it won't take you long and you are UTD before you know it.

Lady Tess, That is crazy crazy stuff. I hope she has learnt through that experience..NEVER to behave that way again. What was she thinking. What right does she have to pass such judgement also. Tut Tut and so sorry you wore the brunt of her stupidity. Thank you for sharing and reminding me I am not alone. 9 Weeks, that is fantastic! You have done what you needed to babe, don't second guess yourself. You were never going to neglect the pregnancy. You needed some time. Your subconscious was no doubt making sure of that. That is what i think. You do what you need to to get through, regardless of people opinions. Your body and Your baby...i think this way anyway. oxox

EmilyJames, Wow FB seems to be a bit of a foe sometimes i think. You protect yourself anyway you can hun. It is hard when some people get so caught up in their own world...it can seem like no one else is in the picture. Hugs hun!
Right so, a lot to think about with the cells playing such a part. I hope it wasn't insensitive to ask. I guess you just have to do what you can to give youself best chances and to keep you safe and healthy hey. Wow, you are a strong woman. You should not under estimate how incredible you are! So whether you have a nat birth or c section will you have the procedure done then, or go for more treatment first just in case you want another child? AND has there been an issue with scar tissue from previous treatments? Sorry so many questions. I hope this is not prying! As for James' results- well i hope it is good to have them...in some way. But, as you fully know...this is not your fault. You know the balance of body and baby. It is a pure miracle. You have not done anything wrong. I too find myself thinking what is wrong with me sometimes. But it is not helpful and just not true. Just don't fall into that trap...you know your body is doing the best it can. Would be nice to blame sometimes! xoox Take care and keep going. Sending you luck for this month. oxox

Ahurani- Ah...yes the dilema we put ourselves through. It is so hard but you guys will work it out. We involuntarily and in the end...found it best for us, was that we gave that first year to DD. However many...including parents to living children, have them very close together. I think many of us woul dfind it hard to have birthdays close together but no harder than what we have endured already so I think we would work our way through it. Regardless, both birthdays will be a reminder of your angel and both will be a celebration too. I hope this helps. In our first year i thought that very same thing and now i think, well...what ever miracle happens to give me another child, is a gift...the dates become insignificant in a way. But that is just us...my DH and I.xoxo Good Luck and so happy for you that you have a good OB. xoxo

Kateo- Talk about being hit all at once. Isn't that the way. If you are going to do it...do it well. Oh love, it has been such a couple of weeks for you. Don't under estimate the smaller things, My word they add up. They are usually the things that have you up against the edge. I am thinking of you and sending you a big hug. I wish I could help.

Dores- How its it all going love? TTCing and getting well that is. I hope you have had a relaxing weekend. I hope you are doing ok. I think of you all the time and wish for you the world of dreams waiting for you. xx

Samcougar...I knew it would be worth it!! ;) xx

AFM- well camping this last weekend was fun. The weather was gorgeous. Went to first psych appointment. The jury is out but I am hopeful. I have made an appointment to see another this week to make sure i have a good fit for me. I will keep appointments with current one and hope for the best however. We will have to wait and see.
Busy day tomorrow, I have 2 nephews with me and we have swimming lessons. I will reach yoga at the end of the day with open arms...and no doubt a little exhaustion. N1 was a cherub all weekend, camping. We played and explored. It was an adventure after adventure. We caught bugs, blew bubbles, caught shrimp and crayfish, played cricket, badmington, frisbee, made aeroplanes with blocks and played hide and seek. It was so cute, before the sun got up we were all woken with a gentle singing voice. That of my 3 year old nephew singing, knick knack paddy whack, wee willy winky and bananas in pyjamas. The initial horror of being woken at such an hour was soon followed with a smile...he sounded so very cute, happy and ready for another adventure. I had a little shadow follow me around everyhwere. It was beautiful.

Got to get back to up packing and cleaning up. Lots of love to those i have missed.

Very quiet in here :/

Whats everyone up to? Any BFP's?

I got AF 5 days ago (thankyou provera), Been so heavy but I kind of expected it to be being the first post baby. So I started clomid this morning. Lets hope it works the first round. Im feeling kind of guilty about ttc. Like Im cheating on Miss H :/ Weird feeling

I just came in to wish everyone good luck this cycle.

Ahurani - How many cycles did it take you to conceive Hayley? Are you taking clomid days 5 - 9?

Um well 3 ovulatory the first I didnt ovulate. But ive started on 100mg this time so I dunno. Yep 5-9

Oh good luck, hopefully starting you on 100mgs will give your ovaries the kickstart needed to produce little eggies. xx

Yeah hopefully :) thanks hun. AF has been a mole

Ahurani - glad you got AF, sorry shes been so mean..... about timing? For some people it's important to try to avoid angelversaries with subsequent pregnancies, certainly a lot of the grief books recommend that..... and I must admit I thought like that..... but then, my circumstances were what they were, and all I wanted was (a) to get pregnant (b) to stay pregnant (c) to deliver a healthy baby, irrespective of the timing. It's hard for me as there are so many damn dates that are significant. Try as I might to forget some of them, like EDD's I can't. But I didn't have "age" on my side, and my obstetric history didn't augur well for success. So I just full steam ahead. I don't regret those decisions. But it can be hard, having life and death dates all mixed up and close together. And I do know what you mean about feeling disrespectful to Hayley for trying again. I imagine that mothers with bubs at home who are considering #2 probably feel the same. Personally I felt that way too but I worked through it. It's not disrespectful to Hayley, and in fact to me, it is even more a celebration of the love you have for her.

Adding this bit - glad you're comfortable with your obs - makes a HUGE difference and during your next preg you are going to need some understanding and compassion and reassurance.

Gi - glad you stayed away, this is a doozy of a cold. Started out pretty minor but I am feeling oh so sorry for myself now.

I know Mummy dreamer and Gi spent time with their angels and honoured them by not TTC in the first year. I can see the merit in that, but it wasn't for me.

AFM - well the snot fairy is visiting me again. Yikes I feel physically miserable. So no TTC for the past few days anyway. DH is working crazy hours and H is up a few times at night at the mo and I am not sleeping that well, so it's not really conducive to BD. Though I did a couple of tests. PML with one - it was a floater test and I lost the floater, so I just put the container on the floor and dipped the stick myself. I didn't get the control panel wet, BUT, the stick has a bump on it, so when you're looking down at it, it looks like a very strong BFP immediately, which of course disappears when you hold it up. OMG, that really did my head in. Dory puts the stick down and there' s a BFP and my heart soars, Dory puts the stick up and it disappears. My little Dory brain struggled to work that one out. But then I did another test yesterday. BFN! Oh well. Guess all those "preg symptoms" I thought I was experincing may not be.... or (the eternal hope) it's just too early to test yet.... without a cycle back its hard to know. But I keep hoping I catch that lil egg.

Oh Mummydreamer - Tash's lil wiggle monster was just too sick and precious beautiful Jude Howard was born sleeping on 16 June..... another wee one gone too soon. Tash has a link in her sig to Sids and Kids Victoria that has a link to an everyday hero page she set up for Jude. There is a beautiful picture of wee Jude, so serene and so handsome.

Anyway, it's Amelia's EDD soon. 2 years... feels like only yesterday. Then it will be Nick's angelversary, then Sophie's, then a break from the heavy emotional stuff for a while, at least in terms of dates stirring up memories, and dreams of what might have been. Don't get me wrong, I am incredibly thankful for what is, but what is doesn't change the past and just how much the past hurts.

Anyway goodnight from me. I should try to get some sleep.

Hi Ladies,
Yes Dores is right...although we did TTC in those first 12 months with much dedication...i found myself at peace with not being pregnant and giving that time for DD. You know, I am not entirely sure if it was a justification or comforting excercise but that is how we handled having no success in those first months. We started TTCing on DD's EDD as we thought that would be perfect timing. I wish I had rhyme and reason for all of this. I think we find whatever reason we can to get through. At the end of the day, there is no good reason to have lost a baby, nor is there one good reason to not fall pregnant again yet i face this ever day. I try not to get caught up in it all, try to stay up beat. All i can do is give this everything i have right now. Hoping with each month that this is the last because my stamina for it is waning.
Dores, get well sweety, I wish i could come over and give your immune system a big boost hun, you have had a bad run for sure. Hope you feel well soon and we can sit in the sun somewhere...with a scone or something. It is miserable being sick.

Ahurani- Sorry AF is being horrid hun, but glad she turned up to give you a fresh start. Fingers crossed for you. xx Don't think you are cheating little Hayley love, Dores is right...it is a beautiful celebration of her existance. I too was fixed on appropriateness and dates lining up at first and then when it came down to it...none of that matters. Days are special regardless and each one has it's place. Hayely is probably rejoicing that she gets to guide a new little brother of sister into your lives. I hope you don't have to wait long for your miracle. xoxo

Tashy- My heart breaks for you love. Welcome and farewell to little Jude and hope you are all healing well after his arrival. Hope you got to spend lots of time with him and I am thinking of you often. xoxoxox

Dores, you crack me up with the HPT...that was hilarious. So you! Love it. Glad you could have a little chuckle over it. Got to get rid of this germy trying to bring you down!

AFM- CD 3/4 today and the worst of AF is over. I knew she was coming and happy she did...an opportunity to 'clean house' before our next baby settles in. We have been doing really well with our detox and feeling really bright eyed and bushy tailed! Well into our 2nd week of hardcore part.
Made a few timely appointments so i can be sure my hormone levels are in check, this and next week. I am feeling nourished and healthy. My yoga is really kicking in and my body is feeling good too. I am slowly toning up, building strength and flexibility...it is great.

So better get back to it. Oh, Ironically, by the time i got in to see the Psychologist i was feeling pretty good and in control of my life once more. I have not had too many down days in a few weeks- touch wood, although one bad week was when i saw her...she had be beside myself and exhausted by it for a good few days after the appointment- a good thing i think. But I am good again now, I am sure it has helped a bit/alot, just perfect timing really as i was getting myself together on all fronts at the time. Funny how when you make these appointments...well with me anyway, i tend to be all action stations and do so many things at once to get the ball rolling. I figure somethings got to work...all the fail safe options under my belt...try them all and you will hit the jackpot for sure!

Good luck this cycle everyone. xoxox

Hi Ladies,
Been a while since I have visited but I think I am up to speed.....
LnD - congrats hun if I did not say so earlier - hope things are sailiing along beautifully!
mummydreamer - big step - hope all works out beautifully for you....
Gigi - glad you are feeling strong & in a pretty good place. What are you & DH doing to detox? Anything special or just healthy living, yoga etc? Hope it rewards you nicely with a big sticky bfp in no time....
Dory - sorry you are feeling so urgh. No the best time to get your mojo on huh? lol at the pee stick episode also :) Sending you big hugs for all the tough dates coming up - the years are rolling around too fast for my liking :(
Tashy - hope you are coping ok love :(
Ahurani - good luck to you once af leaves the building.
afm..... got my recurrent m/c results back the other day - seems the 4 m/cs are attributed to DH having a through the roof high sperm dna fragmentation level. Lucky to have any kidlets & Dr marvelling that I even fall pg to m/c. Detox, anti oxidants etc is where we are at so hoping that makes a very big difference & quickly. Might be back on the ttc bandwagon as soon as next month but will see what the month holds for us. Not the news I was hoping for/ expecting as I feel way less in control of this now that the issue is not mine :(
Anyway, good luck to us all - may we all get the lucky break that is soooooo overdue in all of our cases.
xxxx

mummytotwo - I am so glad you got some answers and that they might be fixable..... thanks for the well wishes too.

Mummytotwo- I will be quick sweet, but essentially...
No sugar, wheat/but very limited gluten free too just the occasional rice noodle, no flours, low oil, very low salt, very low dairy(only nat yoghurt and kefir), limited fruit ie no rockmelon, no watermelon, no dried fruits
Lots of brown rice, legumes and veges, fish, coconut oil, olive oil, particular vegetable juices, soaked nuts, sprouted seeds.
Suppliments...some of which- Spirulina, bee pollen, royal jelly, magnesium and calcium, iodine, flouradix(iron), LSA mix, good quality multi vitamin, zinc, probiotic, fish oils, chia seeds, lemon barley water.
Homeopathics, Massage, Yoga, Abdominal massage, Mora Therapy (kind of like accupuncture without the needles working on the meridians and energy frequencies...;)), meditation, tibetan singing bowls.
I also do a coffee enema most days but only while nutrient levels are extrememly high. A bit confronting when you first try...but becomes very normal after a while. This is the second time we have used them for help in a detox...i find them beneficial for me.

You know me by now...nothing is half way. Of course that doesn't cover it all, but most of it. Hope it helps.
Sorry to hear the results but good that you have them and know what you are trying to fight. Look into the research for bee pollen and royal jelly for semen/sperm nutrition. See if it can help hubby. xoxo

Love and luck to you hun. Thinking of you. xoxox

Dores, Hannah must be on my mind. oxox

Hello Ladies.. '

Dory - I hope you are feeling better. Sending baby dust your way... You made me laugh and cry with your description of the floater tester.

Ahurani - I am glad AF is here for you finally, (even though we all hate her with a passion), but it means a new start. Sending Baby dust your way. :hug: Please don;t feel like your cheating, I felt that about Matthew as well, while despretly trying to concieve after loosing him. What I found helped me was a reading called "spirit baby" it is on this forum somewhere. I dont know if it will help ease your guilt, but I can only say what helped me, and continues to help me with this pregnancy.

AFM - Well 12 weeks... and first ultrasound tomorrow **sigh** I have come to the realisation (and forgive me for how cold it might sound) that I have been avoiding medical intervention of any sort truley because I am scared of what we will find out. I have anxiety up the wazoo about what a loss will do to our sanity and well being. And sadly at the moment I think I am in self protection mode and not feeling very "attached" to this baby/babies. A friend suggested that maybe I just need this ultrasound to hear the HB and be sure everything is going great before I made the decision to bond. I am just conciously concerned about NOT bonding at all because of what happened... I dunno

Also another of my though processes are Baby showers..... what is the protocol???? do I have another for this baby? I dont know how I feel about having one let alone inviting people to another shower in 2 years. Is it rude to ask someone to host it for me??? I dont know what do to.

Hey our lovely Lady Tess, always feels like you are royalty when i type out your username! Huge good luck tomorrow! Funny what we do for self preservation. We all do it hun. I would be/am the same. I have had to get bloods done for the last 3 months and not only am I fearful of needles etc but what they will find. I said to Dh...i want to wait until i have more peace of mind...healthier. I found it easier to put my head in the sand a number of time through life. It is hard facing something head on. You will get through this and with all my heart i hope you have a cheeky little monkey waving back at you on the screen to put your mind at rest and help you bond even more. I think you are right...self preservation sounds spot on to me- not allowing yourself to get too close, reveal too much. You have this licked...don;t you worry and we are all here holding your hand.

Baby showers...good question as that raises a bit of anxiety with me too. I think about it often. My first gut instinct is that i don't want one out of fear, then a part of me thinks i should. I didn't have one for DD but that is irrelevant i think as i woul dbe having the same thoughts. I think for me alone, my fears comes down to how i think people will be. Will they think of DD, will they go nuts with being excited like this was my first born and it is not, will they try and make me 'move on'. I am getting ahead of myself here. I have worried people might think i am 'fixed'. I don't want to not do things for another baby but i am not sure i want to share my sadness/happiness- special kind of happy, with them either. It is still a very private world for me. I am scared...and i am not even pregnant yet.
I think with these things, it is what ever you want to do. You still want to celebrate this as you would any other baby wouldn't you. I don't think it would be rude to ask someone. For second babies do they do it differently? I know with my SIL's second, we went out for lunch. I think you do what you feel is right for you, people will understand.

Good luck tomorrow and will be sending you much love and strength. xoxo

Gigi - thanks a heap for the info. Sounds very full on but I hope you are feeling awesome because of it & that it all pays off very shortly. Is that both you & DH? Thanks for the tip about bee pollen & royal jelly also. It is tough for me as DH had to be talked into bubba no. 3, agreed then we had all the m/c. Now for him to find out it is his issue - I dunno - he hasn't embraced detoxing, cleaning his act up like I had hoped :( Perhaps he still needs time....Also he was quite a big drinker partly to manage his chronic neck/ back pain so I guess it is all contributing. Why o why is it so complicated sometimes?
Lady_Tess - much good luck to you for tomorrow. Hoping for FAB news for you x
Sorry for the all about me post girls but promise to be back soon for persies xxxx

Mto2- It is a tough one. Yes Dh is doing it all but we have to be careful with him because he just drops the weight so easily, it is quite ****y...So we have to make sure he keeps his calories up and when you take so much out of the diet, that can be tough. But yes he is in 100% as he desperately wants a child and this is our last ditch effort to fulfill that dream. It would be hard doing it on your own- motivation wise, most of my friends find this. I hope you work it out over time together. It takes commitment and i can understand your frustration when it is now not focused on your body. Sounds like Dh has to face some truths of his own and as a couple. Tough times but i bet you guys sort it out. It is complicated hun...never easy, but worth it too. Will be thinking of you. xoox

Good morning lovely ladies.
Not alot to report, just dropping in to say hi to everyone! I hope everyone is doing well, in baby making and all other areas of your lives. I take my hats off to all of you ladies that have been trying to conceive for months/years! Its only been 2 and a bit months since we lost James and I am totally obsessed with baby making. Its already doing my head in. I started doing ovulation testing this month and was so happy to get the lh surge anyone would have thought it was a positive preg test. Just happy that everything is in working order cause the way my luck has been going not ovulating would be the next thing to go wrong! So now I am in the TWW. The worst thing is that AF is due on James's EDD. So if I get AF it will be a slap in the face and if I get a positive test I dont know how I will feel. Will it be wrong to be happy etc etc. No one told me when I was pregnant with my DD who is now 6, how much guilt comes with being a Mum. After losing James I now know it doesnt matter if they are here with us or not the guilt still remains!
Gigi your detox diet sounds very hard to stick to! I love food (as my once skinny loose jeans and are now tight prove) You are amazing and give me strength to know that no matter what happens I can keep going!! It must be a comfort to know that your DH is in the same place as you emotionally and wanting a baby. It must be hard for women who's partners are not as supportive. I have decided not to tell my DH when I am ovulating etc as I dont want to make sex a chore for him or us.

I have a question for you ladies with older children about how to handle their questions about what happened to your angel baby. My DD asked me the other day if God is going to take away all our babies. We explained to her about James that he was too sick and God needed an angel baby. But it is coming up in other areas too. She was playing babies the other day with her dolls and gave me one and said " Pretend your a mummy and this is your baby but this one lives!" Damn near killed me! I just let it go and said nothing. But she brings it up when we see other babies, like "they have a cute baby and they got to keep theirs" I just dont know what to say, or say nothing? I dont know if this is contributing to me wanting a baby more now than ever, to give her a sibling and have her know its not always going to end in death.

I still have 10 weeks left of paid parental leave before I have to start looking for work and am not sure how I will go with that. I dont know if I want to go back to my old work or start something new. We are in a new area so I dont have to go back to my old job so it would be a good chance to do something different. Might be good for me too not sitting around thinking about babies.
I have started to wear an ipod out shopping too, crying babies are just everywhere. I am trying not to be selfish and be happy for them, but some days it is just too much to hear them. I just want to pick them up and cuddle them.
We went out to lunch the other weekend and a friend of a friend has a 5 month old boy named James and I did find it a bit therapeutic to have a cuddle.
I hope this all makes sense lol. A bit of a jumble of thoughts but I feel like I can say here what I cant say to friends and family. I have great support but I dont know that they fully get it.
I better go, wishing you all lots of luck for this cycle and that your little miracle is on the way!
Love Trace!
PS Are any of you ladies friends on Facebook?

Gigi - you are lucky DH is 100% committed & that you can work together to acheive your goal.
My DH has had 0 alcohol since finding out so I guess that is committment on some level although I would have liked him to embrace it a bit more. Must remember to give him time & space. It can't be easy to learn that you have probably been responsible for 4 m/c's & all the pain & turmoil it has caused us both in the process.....Totally agree though that the sacrifices are soooooo worth it :)
Emily James - everything you wrote about makes 100% sense. The wanting another baby for DD, the obsession about ttc, being around babies at the supermaket, irl etc. It is all totally normal sweet & I am sorry for you that you get to experience this. I hope you are blessed with another bubba again real soon & that we all are.
Last Tess - how did your scan go sweets?
Hi to all the other ladies - hope everyone is well...... xxxx

Lady Tess - hope your scan went well sweetie..... about baby showers? In theory I think that all pregnancies and the expectation of bringing home a live baby should be celebrated.... it's nice to be surrounded by those you love before the baby arrives and be excited about the prospect of a new little soul. And honestly, it's not like having a baby shower is going to change the outcome, it can't. So why not embrace it?

But in practice? I have never really wanted one, mostly because it was hard to contemplate being "excited" about bringing a baby home with my obstetric history.... and I also thought I was not the type to ask people to buy me or the baby gifts and play those silly games. But having said that, a friend of mine arranged a really small one with some close colleagues from work. It was really just a get together and a chance to chat. There were some gifts, but the focus was not on the imminent arrival of the baby. It was really hard to go, once I realised what it was, but I am glad I went, and now I have the memory of having celebrated publically, and feeling special.

A word on the games - they are not for me. But each to their own.

EmilyJames - I know what you mean abut being obsessed..... I think the long termers wax and wane in their intensity of their obsession. If you look at the SANDS website they have a couple of books to help older children when a baby has died. But OMG, it must just break your heart to hear your little one talking like that. I think the best thing is, and I am not talking from any experience here, is just to let her feel free to talk about James, and his dying, let her ask questions and answer as best you can. Death is a really hard concept for kids to grasp because of its permanence. She will get there, and so will you, but hugs for a hard time.

AFM - well the germ fairy has struck again. I have come down with norovirus ( 24 hour gastro) but in addition to the misery of gastro there were fever, chills, aches, cramping ( everywhere but my tummy), and just general misery. Luckily DH has stepped in and has taken over parenting Hannah. Poor kid I was feeding her in the middle of the night when it struck and I had to put her down to go puke. And since then I have barely been near her. I feel awful keeping my distance but so worth it if she doesn't get it. I got it in the middle of the night Sunday ( so really Monday morning) so it's possible I am still contagious. Needless to say lots of handwashing and toilet washing here. I am completely anxious that she will get it as I can't imagine just how miserable she might be if she did.

Gi - you have your mojo! It is so good to have your energy jumping right off the page at me. Wish I had your DH's problem of the weight falling off me.... there's always something we want huh?

Anyway, baby dust to all those trying.

Hey ladies

I never did manage to move over to the pregnant after late loss group, so you're stuck with me.

EJ - A really good response to the "replacing" messages from people is, "if your mother/father died, you'd just go get another one?" People really don’t think and no one who hasn’t been through this hell of losing a baby can relate. Most people we know have been fine, though I did get a couple of people suggest we adopt - this while our son was still kicking me inside.

That's sad about your DD. I don’t have any experience but I know with my niece, who is 6, she was really affected by Leo's death. She wanted to come to Jude's funeral, but her parents felt it would be too much for her. Hell - it was too much for the rest of us. She's religious, so prays for her cousins in heaven every day. I also gave her a little angel - a cherub sleeping - that may help her. I think only time and love can heal the pain, though, like you, your DD will always mourn her brother.

kateo - I hope things are going well for you.

Ahurani - the subsequent pregnancy will be stressful no matter how long you wait. Maybe waiting can give you more time to mourn, but then will that also stress you more? Make sure you have the support in place to guide you through, whatever you decide to do. We didn’t want Jude to be due around Leo's birthday, so waited so it would be later in the year. Now, I don’t care. I just want a living child and I'll do whatever to get there. However, we won't try before Jude's EDD - the next few months belong to him. We're dependent on postmortem/genetic results anyway.

Mummydreamer - lots of luck. I hope the support group helps. I've never been to one, just been to counselling.

dory - your support has been invaluable :hug: I hope you're better soon.

Gigi - your health regime sounds tough but really good. I want to get back into yoga. I just need SPD to leave and will be seeing an acupuncturist to help. Right now, he's concentrating on helping me with grief and energy levels. I've also been getting reflexology. And trying to sleep and eat well. I generally don’t sleep well though.

LadyTess - I'm glad things are going well. I also avoided nearly everything in the first trimester. My thoughts are, if it won’t change the outcome, leave baby alone. Re: baby showers, maybe you'd feel more comfortable with a blessingway.

Mymmyto2 - I imagine your DH is struggling to accept his DNA fragmentation may be the issue. Men often seem to take longer to accept things. I know my DH is very supportive, but still he processes grief differently to me. TBH, I'm worried, as he now has high BP.

AFM - Thanks for all your words of support. I can't believe we're back here again, only now mourning 2 children. It's beyond bizarre. On the one hand, we kind of know the steps to this grief dance, as we've been dancing it for the last 11 months. But add another little boy we miss out on forever - that's just unbelievable.

In the weeks leading up to saying goodbye, I focused so much on Jude I felt I'd put Leo to the wayside. Then after Jude was born sleeping, in the week leading up to his funeral, I felt Leo close by again, helping us through. That sounds weird I know. Over the weekend I felt completely normal and wondered what was wrong with me for not crying much. Then yesterday I just crashed and I feel like I'm wading through mud again just to get through the day.

The strangest thing is this is normal for us. We get pregnant, hope for the best, fear something going wrong, delight in our growing child, birth our baby who dies and then have a funeral followed by weeks or months before we get any answers. Apparently that's not most people's normal.... I just want 1 healthy baby who lives.

We won't be trying again until we have some answers. We both need time to grieve and process this and look at our options. Hopefully in that time, I can get fitter and healthier, though I've been scoffing chocolate and other carbs which seems to be my normal response to grief. Apart from the howling sessions.

I'm not sure how often I'll be in here. I should probably take some time away from BB - all the PAs and BAs feel like a stab in the heart.

Hi ladies,

Just wanted to sneak in quickly and say hello to everyone and spread some serious baby dust!!

And a special big hello to you Tash :hug: I don't post in here much apart from coming in to spread some baby dust :p Just wanted to say that I think you should stay close to BB and get the support that you need as I found it so valueble after I lost Josh. I know it's hard to ignore the BA and PA when you're on here but just come and say hello to us whenever you feel like it hun, we do miss you heaps. Your advice and words of wisdom are just amazing hun and hopefully we can brighten your day when you need it. I pray that in time you'll bring that beautiful healthy bub home. Big hugs :hug:

B xoxoxo

Hi Tash,
Thanks for asking, going fine but I am a bit stressed out. I have got Gestational Diabetes which is a real bugger but other than that all good. I have been very busy and just not up to doing persies for everyone, sorry. I know I am slack but I'm just not able to manage more.
It was nice to read the idea of having a baby shower to celebrate the pregnancy even if you can't be sure you'll celebrate a birth. I think I might have one for this little squirt.
I send baby dust and best wishes to all of you. May the moon cycle allow you to concieve. Hang in there and keep loving the journey as her as that is
Go gently
Kate

Tash

I just wanted to send you the biggest cyber hugs :hug: possible for the loss of your beautiful Jude. You sound so amazingly strong and calm. I hope that you get some answers soon as to why you have been dealt such an unfair blow in such a short time. I agree that BB can be such an amazing place of support but understand what you mean about the PAs and BAs. It took me a long time to be able to look outside of this thread, back into the mainstream of BB where life continues without this sense of grief and loss and definitely without the understanding that the ladies in here show. I hope that in time you can bring your healthy bub home with you.

oxo

Howdy ladies. Scan went well. Dates are spot on. 13 weeks yesterday. Sorry took so long to get on here and tell you, I am just feeling weird about sharing in this thread. I know how it feels to read about a pregnancy or birth when you have lost as we have. I just don't want to appear I am rubbing it in anyone's face. I am sorry, but j seem to be hypersensitive about this.

As for siblings, I know full well how innocent comments can hurt as we have a 9 year old who was at every scan and went to school the morning I went into labour with the excitement of meeting his baby brother after school. Needless to say he was slapped in the face with reality when we arrived later that day. It is a sad truth that our kids know the meaning of loss. They felt the pain as well, but they are simple, and they say it like it is. The words "can we have this baby alive?" " did you see it mum, did you see the baby was still alive" have left my sons mouth on a regular basis since the announcement of ttc and subsequent pregnancy. As adults I think we complicate things, we rationalize things, when our kids will just see the black and white if things. We can't show them that their words have hurt us, because they won't tell us what they are thinking anymore, for fear of hurting us.

It is hard when you are going through the grief process aswell. My son was my rock, his light guided me cause no matter what, I was still his mum, and he still needed me. I needed to realise that although noone feels the pain of a mother after a late loss, they are hurting too. But they are quieter about it. They see it as it is. Which can seem harsh, but then the reality of a 9 year old knowing that sort of grief is astounding. Show me any child on the street who when talking about their mums pregnancy will say something about death, there will be very few.

What also might help is the fact that I was on a mission to get pregnant again to show my son it can end in smiles. I want to show him we can give him what he was so much looking forward to for 40 weeks.

I will be back soon. Persies shortly!!! Xx

Hi girls, I would love to spend more time in here today but i must be quick. Come down with a flu last 48hrs just before Ov, Had an appointment that has obviously ignited a little bug detox. Within hours of leaving the naturopaths office and treatment...bang. Yesterday was pretty miserable but already feeling so much better today. I am trusting this is part of cleansing out my system. I am thankful i have not had any dairy or sugar and totally believe it is why this is already shifting.
M22- good on DH for cuttign the booze for a while, that is a big step. Thinking of you hun.
Tashy- been thinking of you a lot, hope you are doing well. Hope Accupuncture can help with the shift. Yoga is such a connection for me...i am a bit snotty right now, but will still try to do some. It always seems to help.
EmJ- An ipod is such a good idea. Thinking of you as Jame's EDD approaches. My DD's EDD is just over a week away.
Kate- Bummer re the GD hun, hope you have the support you need to manage it well. Thinking of you.
Dores, yes very jealous of a mans ability to drop weight just thinking about it. But I think you and I are pretty hot as we are! ;)
Tess, I am thrilled for you. Great scan hun. Your beautiful boys no doubt keep you going. xoxo

I have to head.

Sorry for my very short Persies, and for all those i have missed.
Love and hope to you all. xoxooxoxox

Just wanted to say thinking of you all and your :angel:

Missy, love how are you...it is Hippy Mum, in case you didn't know my name change. You often pop into my head gorgeous. Hope you are well. xoxo

Got a good feeling in my bones that we have a bub on board. Dh and I have a very very good feeling. Oh how we wish to prove it can be that simple. Fingers crossed and fingers crossed for the other girls on TWW atm. I am CD17 and doing my fertility dance! We have spent the morning very cautiously working out EDDs, Names and different functions coming up. I think we have btoh decided to keep things to ourselves for a good while and only tell BB, Little SIL and one friend, so we have a bit of a support network there for the ups and downs sure to follow. Wow, this really feels like we have done it....
Bring it on!
Heading to Byron to enjoy the TWW as much as we can. Only be there for 2.5 days but we will be making the most of it....very very excited. Going to break a bit of the detox and go out for dinner together. Won't be too bad, more or less just no sugar, no pasta and the rest is not too bad. I had to have throat lozengers these last couple of days to try and dull the razor blades i must have swallowed and i am over the sugar already. Amazing! Rarely craving, we are going a bit easier now, no enemas, no dairy still except kefir and no sugar, no meat...but we have had a piece of sour dough here and there now so that is fine. DH has had the odd bit of cheese etc and the odd meal now that is not so strict for business dinners etc. So we are not really trying /doing anything difficult anymore. Still juicing until the cows come home which we are loving. Always been big juicers but not every day. Will be nice to relax and take it easy.

Listen to me rattling on.
Sorry for no persies...I am a little bit flittery today to concentrate on other peoples journeys but please know you are all in heart and i think of you always. xoxo WIshing you all the very best for you, your angels and families. xoxo

xoxoxooxox

Oh Gigi that sounds incredibly promising. What day did you O?
Obviouisly it is intuition only at CD17 but I'm jumping on your bandwagon & will be hoping like crazy your hunch is right.
Enjoy Byron, enjoy letting your detoxed hair down a little & can't wait for the next couple of weeks to speed by.
Hi to everyone else also x

Hi ladies

Our precious little girl Isabella Grace arrived by c/s this morning. We are both doing well. Will pop back in when I can.

Oxo

Huge Congratulations Chez!! You must be thrilled. Little Ryan will be watching over his little sister and his mummy and daddy.

Gigi1 - everything is crossed for you. I've always been one to "know". Hoping you're now up the duff :)

Tess - I understand your reluctance to post in here. I felt weird about it as well but couldnt get myself to post in the preg after loss group either. Take care of yourself. Subsequent pregnancy is sooo hard.

I hope everyone else is well.

I'm afraid I'm really struggling. Not only are we grieving for 2 boys, I'm also losing hope that we'll ever be able to bring home a living baby. Unfortunately, until we have more information about Jude's condition there's not a lot we can do. So I feel like I'm staring as walls wondering what the hell is happening with our life and crying for our babies. I'm lucky if I have a shower some days. If I get the energy, I cook something because then I feel like I've done something productive. But it's only 2 of us and we can only eat so much.

The really crappy thing is it's nearly 3 weeks since Jude died and we're in the count down to Leo's 1st birthday. There's only 40 days between the 2 dates.

People say I'm so strong dealing with all this. I dont feel strong at all. I feel like I'm drowning and that I'm a complete failure or that I'm being punished for something horrible. But there's only so many times you can say you're sad and miserable before people get sick of hearing about it. So I stay home and cry and if I go out I try so hard to look normal. I just keep thinking we should be planning our baby son's first birthday whilst his brother is growing inside me. I'd much rather have that life instead of this one.

Huge Congratulations Cheryl and Big welcome to darling little Isabella- a beautiful name for a very special little girl. Well done to mummy for resting up and making it through the last months. xoxoxo

Mummytotwo- Thank you love, yes it is intuition at this stage but all the balls are in the right court, stars are all in place and hope is hanging on the line. It will be a good month and thank you so much for being on our bandwagon!! Will let you all know asap the final score.

Tashy- Thank you sweet, i am hoping my inutition is on the ball.
Oh my dear friend, i feel your pain and bewilderment. It is horrible to go through this once let along again. If ever you need to tell your's and your boy's story over and over again, here is a safe place, or you can call me anytime. I will listen. I will pm my number to you. Anytime.
You know all too well, the little things each day help you to move forward. One foot infront of the other. Who cares if you have had no shower for the day...one day you will and you know that. One day...whether tomorrow or the next you will want a shower. Just know that you will get yourself through this. You will feel better one day...that day will come. Right now, enbrace and let yourself go. Not a time to hard on yourself in any way. I think you are doing a well but by that i mean, you are eating, you are moving. Try to be true to yourself too. What you have been through is horrendous...truely tragic. You are entitled to feel broken for as long as it takes, you will naturally want to put yourself back together as best you can as time goes on. You are building your new you and that takes time.

Go easy and be gentle. Thinking of you my friend and here if you need anything.

xoxoxo HM