Atheism/Agnosticism General Discussion #1

[Aimz]

How do you talk about festivities without them being religious? Such as naming ceremonies, civil weddings, funerals (of those who aren't religious), and of religious holidays?

Our wedding was completely non-denominational. Our celebrant was actually a family friend and we sat down with him and clearly explained that we did not want the mention of God anywhere in our ceremony. It justs did not fit in with our beliefs. So in lieu of prayers and Bible versus we sat down and chose some poems and readings that we felt DID fit in with our beliefs. It's funny because while doing this I didn't know much about Humanism and hadn't done any research, but re-reading our wedding ceremony I can see that it is all still in line with my beliefs. The only person who had a tiny comment to make was DH's mother who is Catholic. We didn't let it affect us and I think our guests just understood that our ceremony didn't involve God - and nothing was said. But in my opinion (and I am biased!) it was one of the most meaningful and loving ceremonies because we shaped every single word around us, not God.

As for Naming Ceremonies, this is what we will be doing for our children. DH is baptised a Roman Catholic and I imagine that in the future we will come up against his mother when we announce that our children will not be baptised. This isn't a discussion I haven't had to have with anyone before - but I am preparing for it!!

In regards to funerals, my Grandfather was very specific in his will that he did not want a religious ceremony. Like me, he was a Humanist and even wrote a book in his day. There were some beautiful versus and passages from that which he had highlighted. Unfortunately, my Uncle, a born again Christian, had other ideas and got up on the podium on the day and read The Good Samaritan (sp?). Because of this, and the lack of respect he showed for my Grandfather, we have not spoken to my Uncle in over 2 years. I think it's definitely possible to have a meaningful funeral without the mention of God, although I can imagine many people attending the funeral feeling uncomfortable with this.

We celebrate religious holidays like anyone else does. Although these holidays generally mean getting together as a family, eating lots of food, drinking lots of good wine and enjoying each others company. The religious aspects of Christmas and Easter don't even play into my thinking and this is natural for me because that's how I was raised.

[Roryrory]

The religious aspects of Christmas and Easter don't even play into my thinking and this is natural for me because that's how I was raised.

This makes me think of my SIL - when she was five and went to school she asked her dad "Is Santa Claus like Jesus Christ - someone other people believe in but we don't?" LOL!!

From the mouths of babes.....

Amysarah, that is awful about what your Uncle did. My mother wants a non-religious ceremony and I imagine I will face the same thing from her family when the time comes.

[echidna]

I lost all that I was typing because I hit some button. It took some text, I asked DF what to do and he said to ctrl+z and that took the rest of it! So never do that! And then we had an argument and then he kicked me off his pc! So thankfully I have a laptop.

Its horrifying to see someone put their beliefs into a ceremony dedicated to another individual who had opposing beliefs! I know of my father's and DF's wishes but I'm not sure if their ceremonies would be religious.

I chose to not have DD christened because I want it to be her choice. I am going to raise her neutral, and take her to services if she wants, but its not up to me. I don't think it's bad if parents raise their children to believe what they do. It would be very difficult to raise children to believe something that you do not share.

[paradise lost]

Hmm, i am clearly, despite my lack of belief in a specific Godhead, not much of an athiest, nor particularly agnostic!

Religious education...? Ceremonies and holidays i am honest about. Christmas ISN'T about trees and presents, it's about the birth of Christ and i present it from that POV. I talk to DD about it as a possibility because it is one. I don't paint it as truth, but i let her know others believe it to be so. Likewise Easter, Hanukkah, Eid and so on (luckily i have many friends of many religions). If she wanted to go to Church, Synagogue, Temple or Mosque then i would take her and if she wanted to stay for a service i would stay with her. My job as i see it is to support her learning and i aim to do so without too much direction because i believe that every person's relationship with Eternity (or god or destiny or the Beyond or WHATEVER they believe in, even if it is permanent and final death) is so personal that interferance from others isn't helpful. If she were to grow up to be a devoutly religious person who believed strongly in a Faith i wouldn't be disappointed or sad. I want her to find fulfillment and for many many people religion is a strong factor in that.

Funnily enough my mum wasn't religious, but she did have a bible reading in her funeral service, which she had planned out before she died (she had plenty of warning). She had a humanist service but at some point in it she had a reading from the bible, from revelations, about god wiping away all tears and taking pain and suffering away. She wrote in her plan "Though i haven't been to church since i was a child, I know many of the people i know ARE religious, and those that CAN be comforted, in whichever way you can, SHOULD be." She never subscribed to the "religion as a crutch" POV many non-religious people do. As she saw it we all have to find our way to happiness in this life and the route isn't important, the happiness is.

Bx

[Aimz]

I was also raised neutral - however, I worshiped my Dad as a child (still do!) and would sit for HOURS with him while we would read National Geographic magazines and he would teach me about history and the world. I sort of followed his lead in everything and when it came to his views on religion, I absorbed that. As an adult I have been able to clearly define my beliefs into a sort of structure where I can make sense of different aspects of life.

I was always given the option of attending RE at school and occasionally went to church services with my Nanna (Dad's mother) when we visited her at Christmas. But I was a very independent child, a thinker, and was able to look at these things free from influence. I can't really remember a time that I ever did believe in a higher power (apart from Santa, tooth fairy etc).

With my children I will teach them about religion, about the siginificance of holidays and the need to have tolerance to all cultures and beliefs. I can't see myself sending my kids to a private school because most are religious. I will educate them with regards to religion, however, the belief aspect will not come from me.

[Roryrory]

With my children I will teach them about religion, about the siginificance of holidays and the need to have tolerance to all cultures and beliefs. I can't see myself sending my kids to a private school because most are religious. I will educate them with regards to religion, however, the belief aspect will not come from me.

That pretty well sums it up for me, too. But that said I will wait until I feel they are old enough to distinguish between "fact" and "belief" before exposing them, consciously, to religious faith. For this reason I would be against my children attending RE in early primary school but ok with it once they are older (in fact I think that RE is very important for anyone to be a well-rounded person in a multi cultural society.

[Roryrory]

Just thought I would revive this thread. I am finally reading Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and absolutely loving it. I think I am starting to come around to atheism rather than agnosticism and it feels wonderflul! I will post more later (I will try to summarise chapters) but just thought I would share the love