Moderator
I do believe in pre-determination and I'm comfortable with it because I think that Allah is the best of planners. That doesn't mean that we don't also have free will to make whatever choices we want only that Allah knows what our choices will be before we make them.
ETA - here is one of Shaikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller's articles.
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/evolve.htm
Registered User
That's what i believe too.
I had this conversation with the guy who i share an office with at work. He was so against the idea of pre-determined life. He asked me then why does God choose to to give some people really short life spans (as in dying during childhood) if he is supposed to be a good God and that we should follow in his footsteps. I had told him, it was a random selection and that if all people lived to 115, then the world would be overpopulated and resources which God has given to us to manage would diminish.
He asked why so many children from his family (back 200 years ago) died at such a young age due to illness? Survival of the fitest.
How does God choose who dies young and who dies when they are 105?
PS thanks for the link - i'll read up on it.
Moderator
IMO, a child who dies young has been blessed in a way. They are gauranteed paradise because they're not responsible for any sins they have comitted. I hope by that you don't think I'm trivialising the pain of those left behind. I guess to someone who doesn't believe in the afterlife a short life would seem a huge tragedy because that's the only life they see but if you believe in eternal existance the human life span in less than the blink of an eye even if you live to 100.
I guess that it does seem unfair that some people get so much and others get so little but Allah is fair so in the afterlife it all evens out. Suffering on Earth expediates our sins so in a way that too is a blessing.
Just my opinion
Registered User
If it is pre-determined and planned for us then the choices we are making are not our own are they?
Does it matter what choices we make if the end result is pre-determined?
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The debate between free-will and determinism has been raging for thousands of years, and there are many websites devoted to it online. It is a very interesting read!
In summary, yes it is possible for man to have free-will (make decisions of his own free will) and for God to determine what will happen. Lemme know if you want some links. There is a few threads about it in the christian section.
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IMO, i believe that God has given us the tools (the brain) to make the most of what have in life. We can use this life to the bestest and go down God's path or take the worst path and have a real miserable, bad life. Yes, if God has decided that i will die at 63yo, then the way i choose to live that 63 years is in my hands. God will give me tests along the way but will allow me to choose how i handle them. Yes, we all come to crossroads and think "what the hell do i do now, i'm in such a bad rut" but i believe that these are all situations which God has placed us in to test our capabilities.
i really think that if people do blame God when things have gone is a real cop out. There have been many times where i've gotten angry at God for some things, but then when i calm down i try and reason with myself as to how i got in that situation and work out some solution. God has really given us the tools to cope and deal with nearly all situations. What He is capable of is truly amazing.Princess Xanthe - BW I understand feeling like people use it as a cop-out. I think both free will and determinism can co-exists, without man blaming God (hey God, you determined this, so I'm not going to take responsibility for my decisions
Salvation - Allah is very forgiving. I am a muslim and i believe in the Koran, but there are some things which i often question, which does not mean that i am disbeliever. I guess it is not wrong to find out the answers to the questions which you seek. Now, Bron with her wealthy knowledge at which i am truly amazed at is reaping many, many, many good deeds in her favour as she is teaching me and us about Islam. Sharing her knowledge. I believe this would be the same for Christianity too. In a sense, we are spreading the word of God, whether it be for Christianity or Islam or some other religion who believe in God. There is a Turkish saying that it is not wrong/bad to seek the answers to the questions that you have but it is wrong/bad if you do not seek them IYKWIM.
I too love talking about the different religions and sharing the similarities or disimilarities. I am not very knowledgeable about Islam but know a little. I am also awed at some of you such as Candice, who can quote from the Bible.
i believe that Christianity and Islam have very similar teachings. We both share the same the God. There is A God and that if you choose to follow Jesus or Muhammad (pbuh) it is just a path to God.
Geez. I had another question to ask... but i forgot
if you guys have any Q's please ask. The more the merrier..
Registered User
I have another question. Well it's not really a question as such...well it is...
I wonder how Adam and Eve knew about DTD? How did they know that "that" goes "there" ????
And what they thought when Eve's bump appeared and when she went into labour and the baby's cord etc...
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It must have been a bitwhen a baby came out. And... no episiotomy, no pain relief... no one to help her how to breastfeed or even to know to put the baby to the boob. Perhaps they relied on instinct? I think it is kinda instinctual to know what to do when it comes to DTD
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Registered User
I just assume God gave them some kind of instructions about all that.
Genesis 1:
I suppose he elaborated a bit, lol. Or maybe just created them with the knowledge seeing as they were created as adults already, not babies iykwim?28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
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There's the thing... pain in childbirth didn't come until after the fall. I am unclear as to whether children were born before or after the fall, and can't really check at the moment (wiggle worm on lap and bible in the other room)
BW
Moderator
Muslims don't belive that pain in childbirth is punishment for Eve's mistakes. Why would all women be punished for the mistake of one? We also reject the concept of original sin.
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