Finding it hard to believe

[Pandora]

that any religious organisation/congregation would do this. I know in some its happened within other Churches in the past, but this is within a family, and in the past 10 years.

This is a Christian religion but Id prefer not to say which one.
A closeish (enough that I know her well enough to know whes not making it up) friend has told me that when she sought help for an abusive situation within her family, from her Church, she was told to "hush it up", by congregation members and by the Church (and I use the workd loosely as I dont believe a truly religious person/group are capable of this) leader.
When she refused to do so she was kicked out/expelled from the congregation.

I find it hard to believe a religious organisation could do this, but as I said I dont disbelieve this friend either.

So basically she now has no one to talk to about it from her 'community' and feels conflicted about it because of the teachings shes had her whole life.

Is this normal in any Christian religion?
Do you think a different congregation within the same religious organisation would be more accepting of her? She doesnt want to turn her back on her faith but feels like her congregation has abandoned her so another wouldnt accept (or be allowed to accept) her either.

[Nelle]

So, she was abused and people in her church basically said 'we don't care'? No-one who is serious about following Jesus would act like that. (At least not consistently. Everyone sins, but for everyone to give her that advice and no-one to come back and say 'you know, I was wrong'...that isn't right.)
She was actually told to hush it up? Not 'let us help you work through this, to make sure justice happens, but let's not talk to too many people about it until we can verify facts before we act on this, can we get you some counselling'... I guess I can imagine that happening.

I don't know what particular denomination you're talking about, but surely not all of their churches would be like that. Even if they are, would she consider another bible based church? The differences can be pretty small between some denominations.

[Pandora]

Nelle, yes thats what I thought. Very unlike Jesus.
She was told not to tell anyone, not to report it and shen she did they kicked her out of the congregation.
I couls understand if they took the approach that you illustrated, obvioulsy you'd want to confirm things and not act rashly, but this sounded more like they'd actually accpeted it had happened.
I'll have a talk to her, Im not even sure whether shes able to seperate this congration from the wider Church ATM becuase she thinks they will all be of the same view, which I'd hope is not the case.
In any case I told her to get some outside conselling first, and think on the rest of it.

[Nelle]

Absolutely counselling. Hugs to your friend.

If there's anything I can do, see if I can find a decent church in her area, or reassure her not all Christians think that's acceptable, let me know. xo

[Floweryfields]

No, it's not normal as far as I am concerned. My pastor would not recommend that at all and certainly would not expell someone.
The bible tells men to love their husbands as christ first loved the church (the body of christ is the church), therefore, he should not be abusing his wife. The bible also tells us that if you she a brother (ie another church member), actively sinning - which abusing his wife would be, then you should go and address that sin with him, if he continues, you are to address it with the church and if he still continues, you are to ask him to leave - the one sinning,not the one being sinned against.
I can't see how any christian church would mis interpret those scriptures and mistreat some as you are describing - appalling and gives christianity a very bad name.
I for one, would not want to be a member of any such church!!

[Jennifer13]

This is very similar to the position I found myself in many years ago. I ran away from home after years of abuse and took myself first to the leaders in my church, who consulted with my father (who was my abuser) and because he denied it, I got the, sorry, you have no witnesses spiel, yadda, yadda. I didn't even hear back from them (not even to ask me if I did have any witnesses!) until a comment I overheard months later made me wonder and I went back and asked them what was happening. They did nothing to help me or my family (including my two sisters at home that I was worried about - I had run away). I had an impeccable background and at the time was a 17 year old and was devestated about the position I was in.

My father was eventually convicted of the abuse through the court system. I had to do something. The scars it left to have those I trusted turn me away are very, very deep.

The sad thing is, they never ever dealt with it, even after his conviction. My father left the church of his own accord. I stopped going along one day, completely disheartened, and I got one person come to see me, once. That's it.

When I did safe ministry training through my current church, which is completely a different church/congregation/religion, we touched on 'spiritual abuse' and I very much believe that's what happened to me. The treatment I received from those in a position of spiritual authority almost took away my faith altogether and it took me many years to reconcile myself with God.

to your friend. It is devestating to go through this.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I know we had a problem with it a few years back, with men in positions of authority abusing their power. It doesn't help the victims, but these days things are VERY strict in terms of sexual abuse - as in, even allowing yourself to be in the situation where you can be accused of wrongdoing will generally mean that man cannot hold a responsible position for many years, if ever.

Having said that, there are always going to be 'bad eggs' that seem to be able to cover themselves, but we have to trust that Jehovah will bring them to justice in His time.

If she is of the same denomination as me, I can give you some more detailed info that may help her, just PM me

[Jennifer13]

but these days things are VERY strict in terms of sexual abuse - as in, even allowing yourself to be in the situation where you can be accused of wrongdoing will generally mean that man cannot hold a responsible position for many years, if ever.

Not holding a position of responsibility doesn't sound like much of a punishment, Berenice. I hope there's more that's done than that.

My concern is less about the 'bad eggs' or those who are abusers (because there's no question where Biblical teachings are on that), than those who are in authority and take no action against abusers, or take the action against those who have been abused in the misguided belief that Biblical teachings support them. Does that make sense?

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

There is more Jen, I just meant that if a man is accused of wrongdoing but is actually innocent, if he has let himself get into a situation where there are no witnesses to confirm his innocence, then his responsibilities will be severely limited, if he has any at all, for years to come. Someone who is guilty however, would go through the whole judicial process and be removed from the congregation.

Victims are also encouraged to contact the relevant authorities if that is what they want to do - while this was discouraged in the past, it is certainly not now, because too many men in authority were confusing dealing with internal matters with covering up crimes. ETA - for our own internal judicial system, there HAS to be a witness. Obviously abusers are not going to do it in front of others, and this is where the problems were before. So victims are encouraged to seek secular justice as they feel necessary, and should also be given personal encouragement to put their faith in Jehovah and His ability to bring their abuser to justice. I know it probably doesn't sound much to outsiders, and I'm probably not explaining myself clearly, please PM for further details.

The Bible also says that those in authority, who knowingly do the wrong thing will be held bloodguilty by Jehovah - so while they may not be punished now, everyone's bill comes due eventually. Am I making any sense?

[Jennifer13]

Victims are also encouraged to contact the relevant authorities if that is what they want to do - while this was discouraged in the past, it is certainly not now, because too many men in authority were confusing dealing with internal matters with covering up crimes.

I am very pleased to hear that. Sometimes it is the only thing that can be done to protect further (or other) victims.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Something else I've recently learned through personal experience about this kind of situation is that, when someone accuses someone of this kind of thing, it's supposed to go on the person's record. Then if someone else accuses them of the same thing, they're considered a witness, in that they have witnessed the same behaviour, even if it wasn't the same event.

This whole situation is occurring within my family at the moment, and while the information I've already provided is correct, I feel that maybe I didn't extend as much sympathy/understanding in my previous posts? I understand now how frustrating and faith breaking it is to see this man still getting privileges, despite his actions. It's finally being dealt with - 30 years after the first offence! - and it is giving myself as an observer, and my family members who were involved so much peace and faith again.

Agaid, I didn't intend to come across as callous or unfeeling - hopefully the additional information is able to help

[Jennifer13]

Hun, I don't think you came across as callous at all. And a system is in place, you only stated what it is. Any criticism would be for the system, not you as the messenger.

It's interesting you touch on the 'faith breaking' aspect. When I did Safe Ministry training as part of my current church, it was highlighted that they have added 'spiritual abuse' to the list of abuses that need to be dealt with. Abusing or harming a person's faith is a very, very serious matter, IMO. Using their faith to discount other abuse is devestating. I was very pleased to hear of the recognition that has been given in some corners.

I am so sorry you and your family are personally dealing with such a challenging situation. I understand its a complex situation and I hope a duty of care is shown to those who deserve it.

[krisp]

I would hate to think anyone would say "hush it up" let alone a christian person. All religions Christian or otherwise teach compassion and charity and understanding. Turning an abused woman away is not compassionate or charitable or understanding and it is certainly not in line with christian or basic human values. Shame on them!