Reply With QuoteI have a massive issue with Christadelphians.
Mainly because they had a place of worship near me with the sign out the front
"God hates homosexuals".
ETA - oh sorry, it was actually "God hates Homosexuality"...my bad
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I used to work with a Christadelphian. he was a lovely boss, a really nice person. We used to have bible discussions and i learnt that their beliefs are quite different to mainstream christianity...even moreso then JW's
No Christadelphians out there?
it was quite a few years ago now so my memory is hazy, but i do remember one of their main teachings is that they dont believe in the Devil...who is a fairly prominent bible character. They believe that 'satan' is actually the evil inside each of us.
they do view themselves as christians, they dont know much of the bible, they dont have bishops or priests specifically but similarly to JW's all members are teachers (except for females). they have a 'creed' which are their fundamental teachings which are used as the basis for their meetings. At their meetings individuals will be assigned to give a talk and it can be about anything so long as the talk abides by the creed and does not introduce new ideas or change the existing creed in any way.
they are also a very small community and tight knit... similar to a bretheren type community. There are only 5,000 in either the whole of australia (or possibly just victoria, my memory is a little fuzzy on that)
Lucy in the sky with diamonds.
I have a massive issue with Christadelphians.
Mainly because they had a place of worship near me with the sign out the front
"God hates homosexuals".
ETA - oh sorry, it was actually "God hates Homosexuality"...my bad
Last edited by Lulu; February 21st, 2010 at 10:22 PM.
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Ooh, just stumbled across this thread... I will stick my nose in and ask a couple more 'silly' questions as DH and I often get visits from some lovely JW's (they usually come every Sunday arvo to discuss some teachings with us) and our last discussion has me a bit confused...
I'm just wondering specifically about the concept of heaven and hell, and the idea of an 'afterlife' in general? What is the JW stance on this one? On their last visit, we got conflicting stories - the young lady spoke to me about heaven and hell, and how everybody goes to 'sleep' when they die, awaiting resurrection and judgement, and that those who are faithful and 'good' will go to Paradise... but the man who visited with her was having a separate conversation with DH (about the same topic) and said his belief was that we die, that's it, no soul, no memories, no thoughts... I just don't think I understand? I mean I get the bit about going to 'sleep' and awaiting Judgement Day, but if we are resurrected as 'clean slates', then what are we judged upon?
Sorry if I have this waaaaay wrong or I've misunderstood something that was saidI hope I'm not being disrespectful at all, I'm just genuinely curious and really want to learn more - as I said, we get lots of visits from the JW's and we're always happy to learn more and discuss their beliefs and teachings, and DH and I are greatly interested in learning all about this stuff from the perspectives of all different religions, I was just hoping to clear it up a bit
TIA
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I struggle with this one too, Glamourcide.
The basic belief, the one that's in the little brown explaining book, is that on earth, our body dies.
That's it for that body, we're dead.
IF you are one of the chosen 144000 then you go to heaven and become an MP (well, that's how I understand it: Jesus is called "King" but is more like a prime minister). If you are not, you go for the long sleep of death.
Then comes the day of judgement. This lasts for 1000 years.
It's basically to see if you are willing to accept Jesus as your saviour. If you, in life, have believed and trusted in Jesus and followed his commands, you pass. If you haven't heard of him, but are willing to live as a Christian should live, you pass. If you refuse to follow Jesus then you die properly - no resurrection. That's the "hell fire" bit: your spirit is burnt up and unable to come back. You're well and truly dead. Not that you suffer eternally (well, you do as you don't get to see all your loved ones, but you're dead so you don't feel the suffering).
HTH.
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Wow, only just found this thread.
Thankyou to all of you, I have found this fascinating.
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they are really saying the same thing, just in different ways.
The paradise doesnt come straight away...its for a futre time. The bible teaching is that a person doesnt have a soul, but IS a soul. So when a person dies, they loose all consciousness and are in a sleeplike condition. there is no life after death until the resurrection....which has not occured yet.
the resurrection is the hope that in the near future, Jesus will bring all who are in that state of sleep/death back to life into an earthly paradise.
They will not be judged on their past life because they have already paid for all those errors thru death, but rather they will be judged on their behavior once they have had time to learn about Jehovah God and submit to his authority. They will be given 1000 years to come to an accurate knowledge and accept God in their lives.
The ones who will be resurrected are both the good and the bad...those who knew God in their previous life, and those who didnt....this would include children/babies who have died too.
I hope this clears up the misunderstanding, but please feel free to ask if its still not clear.
Last edited by Peg; February 22nd, 2010 at 04:11 PM.
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I'm just wondering where in the bible does it teach that a person doesn't have a soul? Mathew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in hell.
This verse tells me that our body and sould are two.
Regards,
Dianne
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Ah, thanks ladies, that does make things a lot clearer in my head
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In English, Soul means Body - honestly! You think about the SOS - you think those people want you to pray for an immortal part of them? No. "Save our souls" they cry: come and rescue us.
Adam was a living soul (Gen 2:7, 1Cor 15:45), Noah's ark carried eight souls (Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives).
I think the Matthew verse you quoted was for emphasis, maybe "the body and the life in the body" but not the spirit, the personality, which we see will live beyond death when we are resurrected with new life and a new body. The word of God can also split apart the soul and the spirit (Heb 4:12).
Also, Ecclesiastes 12:7 - this talks about the dust returning to earth upon death but the spirit returning to God, who gave it, and will keep it safe until the resurrection.
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Ok, so doesn't this mean that when we die our body stays on earth and our spirit goes with God? So then how can our soul be our body? Sorry still confused.
Regards,
Dianne
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I don't understand what you're asking. Our soul turns to dust and is nothing, our spirit returns to God, the giver of life. Soul = body, they are the same thing.
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i know its confusing, but when we understand the meaning behind 'soul' and 'spirit' we see that they are not the same thing.
If i was to say, "so and so is in high spirits today" you'd know that i was talking about their personality and character. Lady Zaidie explained its difference to 'soul' very well...""the body and the life in the body" but not the spirit, the personality"
IOW, the soul is the physical body whereas the spirit is the life force within that body...its what animates the body.
We know the soul can die from this scripture:
Ezekiel 18:3 "Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die"
then we see the state of death is unconsciousness in this scripture
Ecclesiasties 9:5*"For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all"
and we are also told the the spirit does not live on in this one because all 'thought' perishes so obviously the spirit is not a conscious thing
Psalm 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish"
So from these scriptures, both soul and spirit die. The soul because it is the physical body, and the spirit because it is the life force within that body. Its the life force within the body that God remembers and when he creates a new physical body in the resurrection, he will put his memory of that persons spirit into it.
Last edited by Peg; March 2nd, 2010 at 08:49 AM.
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Thank you.
Regards,
Dianne
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Ohh, thanks for the extra questions girls, this is really interesting!
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i have two questions - after seeing Berenice post about how she doesn't vote - did a quick google search and it says that jehovahs witness are discouraged to vote how come? (i dont mean to offend i just wondered why)
the other is all the jehovahs witness churchs/places of worship i have seen seem to be very fenced in - more then other Christian places of worship and was wondering why that is - or if its just the ones i've seen?
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^ The JW bloke who visits us on a weekly/fortnightly basis was discussing this with us just this weekend gone. He said it was because he believed Church and State should be entirely separate, and that God's law is the only one he feels compelled to follow - that, and he thinks it's ridiculous that we are forced to vote when we're a so-called democracy, so he kind of does it on prinicple, too (he and DH get on like a house on fire, they're both very interested in NWO and government conspiracy theory so sooner or later our conversations turn to that). I could well be wrong that this is what most JW's believe, but I for one agree with it
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It pretty much has to do with our allegience. We beleive that when we get baptized we are declaring our allegience to Gods kingdom. 'Thy Kingdom Come' is a very well known christian prayer.
If we were to become involved in the politics of this world and start voting for human leaders, we are in effect denying our allegience to God and his rulership. We've voted for Jesus and his Kingdom and therefore thats what our vote is. I believe Jesus would make a far better ruler then Mr Rudd if you know what i mean.
With regard to fences around the kingdom halls, i've been to numerous halls that do not have fences. But like all properties, secrurity is fairly important and if fences are erected, i can assure you its not to keep everyone out. Our halls are open to the public for all our meetings and most kingdom halls will display the times and days of the meetings, so everyone is welcome to attend. The gates are always open when a meeting is in progress.
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Ditto to Peg - JW's are always neutral because we believe that no man/woman will ever completely fix the worlds problems, the only one who can do that is Jehovah. Everyone else always has an ulterior motive
WRT the fences, the Kingdom Hall I go to opens the gates for people to come in but closes them during the meetings - we're in a fairly high crime area and there's nothing worse than coming out from the meeting all upbeat only to find your window smashed. It's definitely not meant to make people uncomfortable
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