Jehovah's Witness'

[Nettie]

No Christadelphians out there?

[Peg]

No Christadelphians out there?

I used to work with a Christadelphian. he was a lovely boss, a really nice person. We used to have bible discussions and i learnt that their beliefs are quite different to mainstream christianity...even moreso then JW's

it was quite a few years ago now so my memory is hazy, but i do remember one of their main teachings is that they dont believe in the Devil...who is a fairly prominent bible character. They believe that 'satan' is actually the evil inside each of us.

they do view themselves as christians, they dont know much of the bible, they dont have bishops or priests specifically but similarly to JW's all members are teachers (except for females). they have a 'creed' which are their fundamental teachings which are used as the basis for their meetings. At their meetings individuals will be assigned to give a talk and it can be about anything so long as the talk abides by the creed and does not introduce new ideas or change the existing creed in any way.

they are also a very small community and tight knit... similar to a bretheren type community. There are only 5,000 in either the whole of australia (or possibly just victoria, my memory is a little fuzzy on that)

[Lulu]

I have a massive issue with Christadelphians.
Mainly because they had a place of worship near me with the sign out the front

"God hates homosexuals".

ETA - oh sorry, it was actually "God hates Homosexuality"...my bad

[Glamourcide]

Ooh, just stumbled across this thread... I will stick my nose in and ask a couple more 'silly' questions as DH and I often get visits from some lovely JW's (they usually come every Sunday arvo to discuss some teachings with us) and our last discussion has me a bit confused...

I'm just wondering specifically about the concept of heaven and hell, and the idea of an 'afterlife' in general? What is the JW stance on this one? On their last visit, we got conflicting stories - the young lady spoke to me about heaven and hell, and how everybody goes to 'sleep' when they die, awaiting resurrection and judgement, and that those who are faithful and 'good' will go to Paradise... but the man who visited with her was having a separate conversation with DH (about the same topic) and said his belief was that we die, that's it, no soul, no memories, no thoughts... I just don't think I understand? I mean I get the bit about going to 'sleep' and awaiting Judgement Day, but if we are resurrected as 'clean slates', then what are we judged upon?
Sorry if I have this waaaaay wrong or I've misunderstood something that was said I hope I'm not being disrespectful at all, I'm just genuinely curious and really want to learn more - as I said, we get lots of visits from the JW's and we're always happy to learn more and discuss their beliefs and teachings, and DH and I are greatly interested in learning all about this stuff from the perspectives of all different religions, I was just hoping to clear it up a bit
TIA

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I struggle with this one too, Glamourcide.

The basic belief, the one that's in the little brown explaining book, is that on earth, our body dies.

That's it for that body, we're dead.

IF you are one of the chosen 144000 then you go to heaven and become an MP (well, that's how I understand it: Jesus is called "King" but is more like a prime minister). If you are not, you go for the long sleep of death.

Then comes the day of judgement. This lasts for 1000 years.

It's basically to see if you are willing to accept Jesus as your saviour. If you, in life, have believed and trusted in Jesus and followed his commands, you pass. If you haven't heard of him, but are willing to live as a Christian should live, you pass. If you refuse to follow Jesus then you die properly - no resurrection. That's the "hell fire" bit: your spirit is burnt up and unable to come back. You're well and truly dead. Not that you suffer eternally (well, you do as you don't get to see all your loved ones, but you're dead so you don't feel the suffering).

HTH.

[~Kim~]

Wow, only just found this thread.
Thankyou to all of you, I have found this fascinating.

[Peg]

we got conflicting stories - the young lady spoke to me about heaven and hell, and how everybody goes to 'sleep' when they die, awaiting resurrection and judgement, and that those who are faithful and 'good' will go to Paradise...
but the man who visited with her was having a separate conversation with DH (about the same topic) and said his belief was that we die, that's it, no soul, no memories, no thoughts... I just don't think I understand? I mean I get the bit about going to 'sleep' and awaiting Judgement Day, but if we are resurrected as 'clean slates', then what are we judged upon?

they are really saying the same thing, just in different ways.

The paradise doesnt come straight away...its for a futre time. The bible teaching is that a person doesnt have a soul, but IS a soul. So when a person dies, they loose all consciousness and are in a sleeplike condition. there is no life after death until the resurrection....which has not occured yet.

the resurrection is the hope that in the near future, Jesus will bring all who are in that state of sleep/death back to life into an earthly paradise.

They will not be judged on their past life because they have already paid for all those errors thru death, but rather they will be judged on their behavior once they have had time to learn about Jehovah God and submit to his authority. They will be given 1000 years to come to an accurate knowledge and accept God in their lives.

The ones who will be resurrected are both the good and the bad...those who knew God in their previous life, and those who didnt....this would include children/babies who have died too.

I hope this clears up the misunderstanding, but please feel free to ask if its still not clear.

[diannescruffy]

they are really saying the same thing, just in different ways.
The bible teaching is that a person doesnt have a soul, but IS a soul. So when a person dies, they loose all consciousness and are in a sleeplike condition. there is no life after death until the resurrection....which has not occured yet.

I'm just wondering where in the bible does it teach that a person doesn't have a soul? Mathew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in hell.
This verse tells me that our body and sould are two.

Regards,
Dianne

[Glamourcide]

Ah, thanks ladies, that does make things a lot clearer in my head I appreciate it, I'd been thinking very long and hard about it over the past few days!

[Dansta]

i have two questions - after seeing Berenice post about how she doesn't vote - did a quick google search and it says that jehovahs witness are discouraged to vote how come? (i dont mean to offend i just wondered why)

the other is all the jehovahs witness churchs/places of worship i have seen seem to be very fenced in - more then other Christian places of worship and was wondering why that is - or if its just the ones i've seen?

[Glamourcide]

^ The JW bloke who visits us on a weekly/fortnightly basis was discussing this with us just this weekend gone. He said it was because he believed Church and State should be entirely separate, and that God's law is the only one he feels compelled to follow - that, and he thinks it's ridiculous that we are forced to vote when we're a so-called democracy, so he kind of does it on prinicple, too (he and DH get on like a house on fire, they're both very interested in NWO and government conspiracy theory so sooner or later our conversations turn to that ). I could well be wrong that this is what most JW's believe, but I for one agree with it But voting or not, and being forced to in Australia, is a topic for a different thread entirely!

[Peg]

i have two questions - after seeing Berenice post about how she doesn't vote - did a quick google search and it says that jehovahs witness are discouraged to vote how come? (i dont mean to offend i just wondered why)

the other is all the jehovahs witness churchs/places of worship i have seen seem to be very fenced in - more then other Christian places of worship and was wondering why that is - or if its just the ones i've seen?

It pretty much has to do with our allegience. We beleive that when we get baptized we are declaring our allegience to Gods kingdom. 'Thy Kingdom Come' is a very well known christian prayer.

If we were to become involved in the politics of this world and start voting for human leaders, we are in effect denying our allegience to God and his rulership. We've voted for Jesus and his Kingdom and therefore thats what our vote is. I believe Jesus would make a far better ruler then Mr Rudd if you know what i mean.


With regard to fences around the kingdom halls, i've been to numerous halls that do not have fences. But like all properties, secrurity is fairly important and if fences are erected, i can assure you its not to keep everyone out. Our halls are open to the public for all our meetings and most kingdom halls will display the times and days of the meetings, so everyone is welcome to attend. The gates are always open when a meeting is in progress.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Ditto to Peg - JW's are always neutral because we believe that no man/woman will ever completely fix the worlds problems, the only one who can do that is Jehovah. Everyone else always has an ulterior motive

WRT the fences, the Kingdom Hall I go to opens the gates for people to come in but closes them during the meetings - we're in a fairly high crime area and there's nothing worse than coming out from the meeting all upbeat only to find your window smashed. It's definitely not meant to make people uncomfortable

[Dansta]

ahh thanks ladies! it makes sense with the voteing! to not get fined do you put down religious reasons or just pay the fine? (sorry if thats out of line)

and the fences. yep. fairly rough neighborhoods that i have seen the halls in - maybe because they looked nice and clean and well kept.

[Peg]

ahh thanks ladies! it makes sense with the voteing! to not get fined do you put down religious reasons or just pay the fine? (sorry if thats out of line)

you may not realise this but we get a 'get out of jail free card'

No, not really. There is a clause in the voting laws (and i am not 100% but i think it may have come about due to the stand that JW's have taken) that allows the choice of voting. If you've ever had one of the fines you'll see that you have the option of ticking a little box about why you didnt vote.

one of the legitimate reasons why you didnt vote is because you are a "Conciencious Objector"
So we do get the fine, but because we tick conciencious objector we dont have to pay it. The requirement to state your reason for being a consciencious object has to be valid and being a JW is a valid reason.

Recently i was still registered on the roll at my old address and because I didnt put a vote in at the state election I recieved a fine. I called them up to explain that i had moved to a new electorate and was on the roll in my new electorate (yes we still have to be registered to vote), I was told that some people who are failing to vote were ticking that box to get out of paying the fine....i guess they know that there are only 65,000 odd JW's in australia and they were probably getting a lot more 'consciencious objector' forms back then they should have. So he said i should writer the name of my congregation and the name of one of the elders in order to confirm that I am a JW. I dont know if all JW's are doing this or have to do this, but It was the first I heard about it.

[sneakysparkle]

Hi ladies, I thought I'd post a couple of questions that I have after our recent discussions! Now I'm not trying to debate here, but I am interested in how you get to the beliefs you have

1. Now I know that you have your own scripture that you use to illustrate your point, but WRT the trinity, and Jesus - how do you go about the verse in Philippians 2 that Cricket quoted in the previous thread? How about in Genesis 1:26 when it says "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness..."

2. Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read (and heard) that the watchtower (which I believe is the authority under which JW's reside) have on a number of occasions changed/added to or updated the scriptures? How does that work? Does that not go against Revelation 22:18-19?

I had thought of other things that Ive forgotten now I'll most likely be back