Religion

[Heaven]

So... because so many cultures and religions share what is essentially just rules of common decency... could they perhaps be universal/divine?

I think so, otherwise how did we all end up with the same rules?
I haven't read that book. It has been mentioned here a lot tho, is it good??

[Bathsheba]

I agree: with power comes responsibility which i think many people forget

"Mere Christianity" is incredibly good. It explains so much about what it means to be a Christian without getting caught up in all the different dogmas of all the different branches eg C of E, Catholicism etc.

It's the best book in my massive book collection... it's The One I would take with me on a dessert island LOL Obviously the Bible is important but I have to be honest and admit to not really knowing how to "unlock" the information contained within it before reading MC.

[Oie]

SaraJane, I'm not so sure about Global warming. You can read in Genisis after Noah came out of the ark that whilever the earth exsists there would be hot and cold, drought and plenty, seed time and harvets - words to that effect. Besides the debate on Global warming has scientists on each side of the arguement saying "it is" or "it isn't". I agree that when God gave man dominion - he didn't give us the license to destroy it, much like he doesn't want us to have sin destroy our lives.

[MistyFying]

God also gave pretty specific instructions about farming/tending the earth with regards to putting in crops for a certain number of years, and then resting the land for a time.

Bath it's interesting re: the 10 commandments what Jesus' response was to the person who asked him which was the most important commandment of all. Jesus replied, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and love your neighbour as yourself". Basically if you look at the 10 commandments, they can all be summarised in those two "new" statements.

A guy called Louie Giglio has a new dvd out about the exploration of space, which he put together with images from the hubble telescope. It is absolutely brilliant to see how beautiful the stars, solar systems and galaxies are in the universe. If anyone wants a look, the dvd is called "indescribable" ... it takes your breath away.

ETA: just re-reading what I wrote... seems a bit random but it was just my thoughts on the last page of posts/topics

[cruemum]

Yes, there are guidelines for wiccan faith.
Ask me questions and I will answer the best that I can.

[Jennifer13]

Cruemum, do you get together with other ppl of the same faith often? Just wondered if there were many other followers of wiccan in your area. Or is it more something you follow on your own?

[cruemum]

It is something that I do on my own as there arent any covens within my area, that I know of. Only moved to this side of town in October. I have few friends who sometimes join a circle with me.
This is something that you can do alone or with a coven.
Power comes from the mind.
Blessed Be

[Nelle]

I have really really enjoyed reading this thread guys. I can't for the life of me remember all the comments I was going to make though!!

I haven't got around to reading Mere Christianity Bath, I'll have to do that, I think I have dad's copy I borrowed with the intention of reading it somewhere here...

As for bible translations, I kinda appreciate different ones for different reasons, am trying to read more King James version but find I need to get in a 'King James zone' where I'm ready to concentrate to understand the old language. New Living Translation's my pick for a quick read.

I really should be in bed, but I'm really glad I found this thread, am really pleased we're getting along well, even with many different beliefs that we might feel passionate about.

[Heaven]

Something interesting about pregnancy in the Bible. I was reading it last night and this is about the Angel of the Lord coming to Manoah's wife to tell her she would have a son (Samson).

From Judges:
14She may not eat of any thing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: all that I commanded her let her observe.

So God told them that long ago that a pregnant woman couldn't have alcohol. Amazing I reckon, they wouldn't have known why.

And something else about birth in the Bible:

Genesis 3:16 says, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain will you give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Now the misunderstanding comes from the word "pain" in this verse, which has been mistranslated. This word is NOT referring to physical pain. It is referring to hard work and emotional travail. The same word translated "pain" in the Greek Septuagint version of Genesis 3:16 is also used in Luke 22:45, and this helps to give us an idea of its true meaning.
"When he rose from prayer and went back
to the disciples, he found them asleep,
exhausted from sorrow."
The word "sorrow" in this verse is the same word translated "pain" in Genesis 3:16. The apostles had not been enduring any physical pain in the garden of Gethsemane; they were exhausted from worrying about Jesus' impending death on the cross. They had worked themselves up into an emotional frenzy that had drained them of their strength and incapacitated them. Does that sound like what happens to a woman in labor?

Because the sensations of childbirth are strange to a woman, and because she has not properly prepared herself for what it will be like, she often becomes fearful. Because she does not know how to cope with these new sensations, she often works herself up into quite an emotional state, and comes to dread and fear each contraction. This creates what has been called the Fear-Tension-Pain cycle.

[paradise lost]

Another quick one as DD has been ill all day and i'm shattered...

In response to someone above mentioning the Holy Trinity, i do know that until around 600AD the Holy Trinity referred to the Father, the Son and the Virgin. The Holy Spirit grew from this, represented by a pure white (virginal) dove.

Bec

[paradise lost]

To begin with i'm positive it was the Virgin in the catholic sense - the (female) mother of Jesus, but i don't know if there was a central decision in Rome to move to a symbolic spirit of heavenly purity or if it occurred naturally as people's way of looking at things changed. History obscures such changes unless they are a) recent or b) violent.

Is that what you meant?

ETA - i need to go to bed, but i think you were meaning in the sense of male AND female and yes, in that sense the Holy Trinity represented the mother, father and child, BUT this is not an interpretation which has been used for many many centuries so i'm not sure how relevant it is to modern Christianity. One of the things i remember talking about in class is about how belief and culture is of the age - it's very tied to zeitgeist. One lecturer (a monk) said he felt that the Christianity worshipped by an 8th century monk might actually be bad for a modern person, just as modern Christianity could be seen as bad by the 8th century monk - it's about what someone (sorry guys, i need more thyroxine, i'm seeing the doc this week - my memory is shot!) above said, was it Bath, or Ryn? That God says if you believe something is bad you mustn't do it (i.e. you mustn't eat meat you feel is unclean) - our responsibility is to our own morality first, that is what Christianity, in fact, to me, most religions, are about. Being answerable not only to God but to one's self. There is no point in trying to live the good life of an 8th century monk when you are a 21st century lawyer, for example, because if that's what God wanted from you he'd have made you an 8th century monk.

[Pandora]

OK no offence intended to anyone, this is something I have read, I will try to find the references..
Its quite possible that given the early christians were converting a pagan, Goddess worshipping people, that there is deliberately a strong feminine presence. There is a school of thought that this was they main reason for Mary's inclusion in the NT.

[Pandora]

Yep, Niass thats what I meant.
I don't know what I believe. I'm not an athiest, not agnostic.
I want DS to have "Christian" values but by that I mean how I was brought up; I'm sure other religions have the same values I'm thinking of.
I have always had an issue with Dogma and "the one true God".
I was drawn to Paganism in my 20s becuase I like the one God, one Godess but taking many forms and personas. I'm pretty sure on census before last I listed witch as my religion (not wicca though, as I definietly didnt follow all the ritual etc, and Wiccans would get offended if I'd called myself that) on the most recent one I don't know what I put.
Recently (since having DS) I've been contemplating it a lot. He is the only member of my extended family (80+ people) who isn't Christened. Before I had him it was not something I wanted to do but now, I'm not sure.

I think I want the unobtainable. I think I want Christianity without Dogma, more tolerance, an without exclusion.

[Lulu]

Ummm, were you getting at the maiden, mother, crone (triple goddess?). I think that is more representational of anything as it represents the cycle of life etc.
That suits me fine...

[Lulu]

Oh the Holy Trinity thing....

[Jennifer13]

So we dont go to church any more, no desire whatsoever (though I sometimes miss the trad anglican style services - but not for spiritual food etc, just the tradition and reverance I suppose).

I think that's why I started going back, for the tradition/reverence thing (although I wasn't bought up Anglican, but still, there's a feeling at most church services that brings back memories). Then I kind of saw the relevance and the importance of the influence in my child's life, whether or not she chooses to accept it as an adult.

For me, it's also being part of a community that holds a similar belief system. I think that's important for all of us, not just Lucy. It's a bit of a revelation to DP, who never attended church, how it can become a tradition. And I hold the opinion (no offence to anyone who feels differently!) that it won't be possible for Lucy to choose to follow religion if she isn't exposed to it as a child. I think our involvement gives her both sides of the coin, so to speak (since we aren't religious in our everyday life).

Our christening of Lucy was for a couple of reasons. Firstly to demonstrate that we intend for her to be brought up being taught the principles of our church and secondly that we could nominate godparents who would take care of her spiritual/emotional needs and keep an eye on her (since we are a bit devoid in the family stakes!). It is a lovely tradition to introduce our child to the community as well.

[Bathsheba]

I agree whole-heartedly Jennifer, regarding exposing children to church/spirituality. The "comfort zones" that you establish for your children are those that they will return to as adults. My DH never went to church as a child, and feels uncomfortable stepping inside one as an adult. Such a shame. Many of our friends say "oh we'll let our children choose their own religion when they grow up..." but will then go forth and choose a football team for them (heaven forbid they support another team!!!). Interesting inconsistency.

I think it's part of being a mature adult to feel comfortable in any public environment. Discomfort can be stilting and even a disadvantage. So it's a real focus of my parenting to ensure that my kids will feel ok in as many situations: from squatting around a campfire with a group of our indigenous neighbours witnessing a corroboree to attending Mass in a city cathedral and countless situations inbetween... which naturally leads to feeling comfortable in the company of every type of person, from the most disadvantaged Aussie to the Queen of England... and everyone in between! And that is certainly one lesson we learn as Christians: inclusiveness, tolerance and understanding of all peoples.

[Heaven]

The "comfort zones" that you establish for your children are those that they will return to as adults. My DH never went to church as a child, and feels uncomfortable stepping inside one as an adult.

Very true. My mum and dad took us to church when we were young.
Then my mum and dad got divorced and mum didn't really go or talk about religion any more for some reason. There are 4 of us kids and I can notice a difference between me and my oldest brother and the younger two. We would be more likely to be involved in religion than the younger two who don't really remember or have had a chance to be exposed to it.
DHs family wasn't religious and he learnt nothing about it and I feel he's really missing out. He is really enjoying reading the bible with me now tho. I finally convinced him he should at least know about it if he's going to decide he doesn't like it (luckily I think he's changing his mind).