What is the role of suffering?

[Bathsheba]

PB: I see God as like a parent. Sometimes a parent has to allow a child to suffer so they can learn. As parents is it really our role to protect our children from all suffering? When my child desperately wants the lolly that another child has should I make sure he gets one every time? I refuse and my child will scream until they are blue in the face... but I know that if my child gets a lolly that the consequences won't be positive. I think we are like children sometimes.... we scream and scream wanting things that God in his wisdom knows is for something that is not right for us. Being loving is not being kind. A "kind" God would prevent us from making mistakes... would that really be in our best interests?

[Visitor3]

I know what you're saying in terms of discipline. But I'm talking about the big picture. A child vomiting thier own bile and dying because they are starved is not really the same as not giving your child a lolly, although I know what you're trying to say. But then in saying the "lolly" metaphor it negates free will doesn't it ?

I understand that sure you need to put in an effort in life to get what you want and you may not always get it which may mean perservering, but what I'm talking about is the role of children suffering which is vastly different.

[Bathsheba]

The role of a suffering child (starvation scenario) could be many things. Firstly, like i said in my first post: maybe the spirit of that child will enter Heaven in a more perfect state due to his suffering. I don't think he or she will find a "better Heaven" just that because the spirit of that child has experienced such extreme suffering that their spirit has graduated up a heirachy of perfection. In the Bible it states that there are angels and arch-angels (like Gabriel) who seems to have a higher place in Heaven. Maybe your standard angel wishes to "grow" spiritually.... so they decide to return to Earth specifically to suffer. Now this is just my own theory... maybe it just helps me deal with the helplessness of knowing that there are suffering children But even if we stop the suffering of a returned spirit then that's ok too. God will rejoice in that too. Secondly, the suffering of innocents really makes most of us feel really humble. How easy is it for mankind to feel proud of all that he has done??? Oh yes we are good aren't we/ how clever we are... we can put a man on the Moon!!!... we are sooo clever. Oh but wait... we can't ensure that no child suffers from lack of food. Hmmm.... so, are we really that great afterall? What a valuable lesson. That's my big picture perspective.

[Visitor3]

The role of a suffering child (starvation scenario) could be many things. Firstly, like i said in my first post: maybe the spirit of that child will enter Heaven in a more perfect state due to his suffering. I don't think he or she will find a "better Heaven" just that because the spirit of that child has experienced such extreme suffering that their spirit has graduated up a heirachy of perfection. In the Bible it states that there are angels and arch-angels (like Gabriel) who seems to have a higher place in Heaven. Maybe your standard angel wishes to "grow" spiritually.... so they decide to return to Earth specifically to suffer. Now this is just my own theory... maybe it just helps me deal with the helplessness of knowing that there are suffering children But even if we stop the suffering of a returned spirit then that's ok too. God will rejoice in that too.

I won't comment on this first part because it's clearly your own personal belief and you are perfectly entitled to that.

Secondly, the suffering of innocents really makes most of us feel really humble. How easy is it for mankind to feel proud of all that he has done??? Oh yes we are good aren't we/ how clever we are... we can put a man on the Moon!!!... we are sooo clever. Oh but wait... we can't ensure that no child suffers from lack of food. Hmmm.... so, are we really that great afterall? What a valuable lesson. That's my big picture perspective.

Completely agreed that I feel humbled to the ground when I think about such suffering (Which I choose not to focus on too much, otherwise I?d go mad !) Anywhooooo, I am also hubled when somebody does something nice for me for no particular reason. I?m not sure what you mean by "what a valuable lesson"? Is the lesson to feel humility by suffering of such children ? Or that we ensure that no child suffers from lack of food? Not really a lesson that has been learnt. Sorry I don?t mean to argue the point but the reason that have been given for children starving, you know, so that we might get a clue, learn a lesson, really just seem a cruel way to teach to me???

[Bathsheba]

As mankind develops all his skills in technology/medicine/science etc it could seem to many of us that we are becoming God-like in our power. I think it is a good lesson to be reminded that we are far from being God like. With power comes responsibility. Mankind seems happy to take the power but not to take responsibility How valuable is the death of a hungry child to remind us that we not God-like at all. Yes it is a bitter pill to swallow. It's not God that is being cruel... it is mankind that is being cruel. God cannot make us be good and take responsibility... that would go against free will.

[Visitor3]

Yeah, I really don't need or want the death of a hungry child to remind me that I am not God-like. I do agree that it is man being cruel that these children are in this position but I also think it is cruel of God to create the child knowing it would die in such a horrendous way. I think that sometimes people can justify these things as a lesson or a better place in heaven or whatever because it will never be thier child that they will be looking at and see thier soul escape their tiny little body and go cold. If it were thier child I think it would be a lot harder to justify, you know what I mean ?

I dunno, I appreciate your responses and at the end of the day, we all need to come to terms with why suffering happens in our own way. For me I just cannot in my heart of hearts ever accept that a child should die like that.

xx

[Phteven]

I don't think that any of us find it easy to accept that children or adults endure terrible suffering but the way I see it going to war with God about it is utterly futile but going to war against humanity might just achieve some small change.
We sponsor a child in Peru and also donate to Oxfam and Medicines Sans Frontiers. They're pretty small things to do but for me it helps to know that I am doing something - I can't stamp out poverty but I can help a few people less fortunate than me.

[Bathsheba]

Just personally I don't think I am "justifying" anything. It has been through my own personal suffering that I have developed the thoughts and ideas that I have written about in this post. I haven't come to these conclusions simply by observing the suffering of others. I know 100% that I am a better person for enduring the pain that I have. It's not for us to determine what challenges we "need or want". Our comfortable Western lifestyles have convinced us that not having a choice is outrageous. Well... I think it would serve us well to learn to get on and deal with things whether we like them or not... stop tantrumming like toddlers and screaming "IT'S NOT FAIR!!!" and just deal with it like most of humanity (especially in Developing countries). I'm not addressing this comment at you PB. I'm talking generally.