I know what you're saying in terms of discipline. But I'm talking about the big picture. A child vomiting thier own bile and dying because they are starved is not really the same as not giving your child a lolly, although I know what you're trying to say. But then in saying the "lolly" metaphor it negates free will doesn't it ?

I understand that sure you need to put in an effort in life to get what you want and you may not always get it which may mean perservering, but what I'm talking about is the role of children suffering which is vastly different.