In an ideal world we would all be able to calmly deal with our children and give respectful discipline and have it work on every occasion. In an ideal world our children would all be perfectly behaved at the shops (or other public venues).
We are none of us perfect. I don't like to see parents smacking their kids or calling them names - I do find it distressing. But I can't in all honesty say I have never done it. I am mindful most times of how I speak to my kids, and I avoid smacking because in most cases I don't believe it works as a form of discipline. But that doesn't mean I have never done these things.
So I try not to judge, because its hard to know the circumstances.
You get disapproving looks and comments in supermarkets if your child is throwing a tantrum and screaming the place down. You hear comments like 'in my day, I would have gotten a kick up the bum for that.'
Then the same people also look disapprovingly when you are trying to sort the screaming child out, whether it is a small smack or some firm words, or dragging them along by the arm while you juggle a baby in another.
I've never been in either situation, as I had perfect toddlers (they were suppressed with mental problems and I'd rather them be horrible brats out of the house ie, normal children, than be the way they were) but I saw it over and over again with quite distressed mothers. I felt so sorry for them, all the way being tut-tutted for whatever way they went.
Obviously there are extremes and bad parents that are very harsh on their kids and say and do horrible things, but there also are alot of frustrated mums at their wits end.
I agree totally... FRUSTRATION is the biggest cause, and also a lack of knowledge and support. Look at what we have here a collection of mature supportive women ready to offer advice or support whenever we need it... we are lucky. There are alot of people out there without previous experience, mothers, aunts, sisters, and sadly even friends with no one to reach out and offer a helping hand when they are at their wits end. Maybe we need to make up BellyBelly cards to give out when we see a mum in need...
When I was in the hospital waiting for an u/s I heard a mother say to her child in the nicest tone ever "you are such a stupid baby. yes you are! you are stupid"
Honestly I was absolutely furious. This was said in such a happy tone there is no way it could have been from frustration or anger. I can't figure out why she would say that.
Absolute shocker today in the shops including Matilda vomitting in the parents room in a tantrum in front of around 10 parents... totally embarassing... had to drag her out by the arm because she kept biting when we picked her up... I was crying and DH kept making jokes to the other parents "so we gave our child red cordial for breakfast, will think twice about the chocolate for lunch...."
Christy , you are an amazing woman... Sorry to hear you had a shocker day... I hope tomorrow is a better day and in the meantime have a nice red and try and unwind...
I know i'm not a perfect mother in the shops! My son is into tantrums and will sit on the ground so my DH and i will say to him 'bye, see u later' and walk away. If that doesnt work, which it usually does, i continually ask him if he's finished yet until he says yes then we carry on shopping. When we have walked away from him (with him still in sight) most people around actually smile at us in agreement. My DH has even stood next to him saying 'is that the best u can do??' and the 5 or so people nearby thought it was hillarious! It made him quiet quick smart. Otherwise i just ignore his complaining so i cool down aswell and then ask him why he was like that and say he didn't need to as he has been so good all day. He reacts very well to positive feedback.
I can understand all those frustrated parents out there who give their child a little smack in public, been there done that. Those parents that never get frustrated and handle everything u deserve a medal!
NP please don't take this thread as a personal attack hon I'm sure you are a great mother, and I am certainly guilty of barking at Paris on occasion. But I also know how lucky I am Paris never had tantrums, she rarely asks for anything when we are out and she's generally a joy to be around. Most of the time I bark at her its because I'm stressed and its usually not warranted. All kids are different and some mum's definitely get more of a rough trot than others and I think thats definitely something to remember. As I said before in one of the other posts I did, the reason why some situations upset me is because it reminds me of some things I went through as a child. And lets just say i didn't exactly grow up in a happy home But I doubt if I saw a mother with 3 kids who was obviously having one of *those* days I would judge... in fact I would more than likely (and have done before) offer a smile or nod of understanding...
I think that if we took out of the equation that other people are annoyed at the noise our child is making, we would have more headspace to deal with our children more constructively in public. That's what is a huge factor in frustration - trying to get our kids to squeeze into the mould that other people want them in...i.e. quietly following you and making as minimal a presence as possible.
I think it DOES help a parent a lot to make eye contact, maybe say something that implies you can relate. Because then that parent feels more normal, and not as if they are being judged for letting their kids 'get out of hand'. I think it has a lot more to do (the frustration that is) with how that parent perceives other people judging their parenting, than the behaviour of the child, in many cases.
We're not in a very child-friendly society and this adds to the frustration. People tend to ignore you in that situation and you just know it's because they are not dealing well with the children. If only they knew that it would make life easier for EVERYONE if they could just look at you and say 'just one of those days, huh?' - I've said that before to mothers with their hands full, and I have seen the weight lift off their shoulders! I'm telling them that it's ok by me if the kids are reacting adversely to an environment that is very geared towards adults and is rubbing them the wrong way. It's neither of their fault, in most cases.
A bit of solidarity really helps when out and about!! I'd hate to be left out to dry by other parents when Oscar is of tantrum age, and I've been acknowledging parents 'in need' for a long time, having seen these patterns for years working in the retail trade.
I must admit that one time I visibly flinched when a child just randomly squealed very loudly and it pierced through my head! The mother looked offended and I just told her that the noise went through my head, but I didn't ignore the child because of it. If someone bumps you, you stumble. My hearing was assaulted with a very sharp noise and I reacted.
I have a colleague who is very critical of screaming kids in shopping centres. She has no kids! She says it's the parents' fault and they should control the kids. This kind of person contributes to a child-unfriendly society. I really resent it. My uni has a policy saying that children are allowed in study areas like computer labs and libraries so long as they are virtually undetectable (not in those words, but it's trying to say that)...
Maybe it helps me, when I'm in a situation with a frazzled mummy and kids in a shopping centre, to know that it's an adult environment and the kids are overloaded with all the messages that are screaming from every shop, every department. It helps me understand why her kids are 'ratty' and to let her know that she is not responsible for my peace and quiet.
Then again, I really do avoid shopping centres like the plague, even without Oscar!
NP I understand where you are coming from - I have had some absolute shockers at the shops with my 2 and 4 year old. It is not easy to stay calm in those situations at all, especially when soothing and explanations just don't cut it! You just cannot reason with an unreasonable person, and toddlers are definitely not reasonable! I just have to remind myself when we have an "episode" that it will pass, and going off my head will probably not help the situation. Generally these days I just avoid going to the shops with all 3 kids if I can.
I'm so glad I've been reading this thread. As someone who has yet to have any children I probably am a little quick to judge parents with tantruming kids (though I don't ever give them nasty looks, and I do feel sorry for them), but reading this has opened my eyes somewhat - that will likely be me one day!
Yesterday at the shops I got into a lift with a woman with two children, one in a stroller about 2, and one little boy walking with her who was about 3.5 I guess. He wanted to push the buttons (fair enough!) but wouldn't listen to mum and kept pushing the level we were on so we weren't going anywhere. I actually thought that mum kept her cool really well and eventually she just pushed the right button, didn't tell him off or anything. Well he just lost it! He kept crying "SHUT UP MUMMY, SHUT UP MUMMY". I felt so sorry for her, and when she looked at my belly, I said "I've got so much to look forward to, hey?". She smiled and we had a little chat, and I felt better that I hadn't thought anything bad about her.
So well done to all you mums who take your kids out and about - I can't wait!
For sure, there is a huge difference!
That's what I mean about parents being a model for these kids (I might not have said that in this thread, I know I've said it somewhere else!). My dog was yelled at by a rough bag woman last week, and I was subsequently growled at and then called a 'stupid b!tch'. The woman had her partner and 3 kids with her. I had Oscar. I decided it was better to leave her with her own words in her head and I just kept talking to my dog, telling him 'good boy' (because he was actually being obedient, not like their dogs who were straining at leashes!).
The rude talk is not just restricted to their kids, you can bet they treat other people like this, too! And then their kids will treat others like this.
i agree kate, and thats why i started this thread. I wasnt talking about tantrums or unreasonable toddlers.....these were babies i saw - ie they couldnt talk or walk. An ever so slight whinge and i saw the mother get the dummy out, shove it in one of the twins mouth an say 'stop your whinging'. She was behind the pram whilst saying this, so they're wasnt even any eye contact. YOur right Cailin, these people may not have support/outlets/info around them to teach them good parenting....
I have noticed the same thing alot of people do tend to speak horible to there kids and i think its realy mean
on the flip side though and i am teling you guys this for a laugh not to argue what this thread is about cause i do so agree but this is an example of how sometime you only see half of the situation
I was at the shop the other day and my DD had puked on her self again i lost count of how many times she hd done this in th hour at the shops keeping in mind as well she is a 1 yearold refluxer so we have been dealing with this for ages so this particualr time she i said to her "for godness sake when are you going to stop puking its driving me nuts your a litle Pukey monster" she laughed and so did i wasnt teling her of just playing and this stupid women said to me its not ehr faust she is vomiting if you dont like her puking when you are out perhaps keep her home whan she is sick i was so angry my dd is awaitng surgery for her reflux and is always unwel due to medical conditions and i though how rude
There's a huge difference b/w people who might be frustrated & say/do something in the moment, to those who just talk badly to their children as a matter of course. We all get frustrated at times, epecially those of us who have refluxy, colicy babies & if we're sleep deprived. Not excuses, just reasons. ETA: Or those of us who have tantrum chucking toddlers, or older children who can be a handful.
A lady used to live nearby who would constanly yell at her kids to "f'n shut up!". You could hear her two doors away! When she moved in she had a 3 yo & was pg. When baby was born she would swear & yell at her too. I would cringe every time I heard her scream, I felt so badly for these two poor little girls.
I agree Kate. I should have elaborated further in my post as you did in yours.
Off topic but in response to IK: I don't think that society is "child unfriendly". I think children have the run of most places these days and I can understand why it sometimes gets up other people's noses whether they have children or not. I would go so far as to say that there are some places children should not be. I would never expect to see a child in a university library and I would probably be annoyed if one was running around in there. That isn't a suitable environment for kids and it is inconsiderate of people who are trying to use the area for study.
Mikenzee's Mum *hugs* I can only relate as I have had 2 refluxers(although not to the same extent as they haven't needed surgery). Sometimes when you have no food in the house & you have to go shopping and they vomit & scream the entire shop you already feel at the end of it without other people's comments. I've had everything said to me & even people give me awful looks for just trying to get through the shop.
Still off topic: Yep, I agree Melbo, the last place a mother should be, also, is in a university - she should be at home looking after her children and if she can't find someone to mind her child, and she has no job to pay for childcare (and VSU has seen the end of subsidised on-campus childcare), then university is just not for her. And of course, all children are the same. Ban all children from places because they are ALL noisy and they all run around places.
On another note: Shopping centres are geared for adults. Even to the point where they design displays to entice children so that the accompanying adults fork out money to pay for the merchandise. It IS an adult world, because especially in a retail environment, the children are not the ones with credit cards or EFTPOS access.
Reply With Quote
, you are an amazing woman... Sorry to hear you had a shocker day... I hope tomorrow is a better day and in the meantime have a nice red and try and unwind...
I'm sure you are a great mother, and I am certainly guilty of barking at Paris on occasion. But I also know how lucky I am Paris never had tantrums, she rarely asks for anything when we are out and she's generally a joy to be around. Most of the time I bark at her its because I'm stressed and its usually not warranted. All kids are different and some mum's definitely get more of a rough trot than others and I think thats definitely something to remember. As I said before in one of the other posts I did, the reason why some situations upset me is because it reminds me of some things I went through as a child. And lets just say i didn't exactly grow up in a happy home 
Bookmarks