i agree kate, and thats why i started this thread. I wasnt talking about tantrums or unreasonable toddlers.....these were babies i saw - ie they couldnt talk or walk. An ever so slight whinge and i saw the mother get the dummy out, shove it in one of the twins mouth an say 'stop your whinging'. She was behind the pram whilst saying this, so they're wasnt even any eye contact. YOur right Cailin, these people may not have support/outlets/info around them to teach them good parenting....