independent play 2 & 3 year olds/ juggling toddler & baby - how do you do it?!

[skeetaboat]

Star - I hope you get a few answers too.

Alioops - thanks for your reply. Wow you've got a full plate, sounds like you're handling it well though! Sorting through the toys is a great idea, I'll try that one. The problem is toddler wont play with things by himself, he wants me there to play WITH him... I think I will try something like colouring while I stay in the room and rock bubs to sleep (I usually walk the hall/bedroom with him until she falls asleep).

I think the noise is part of the reason bubs is so unsettled and such a catnapper. She never gets a full sleep, wakes up grumpy and still tired, cries and whinges until she's tired enough to sleep again. Gets back to sleep, gets woken up, repeat. She's 5 months now though, I thought she might've gotten used to the noise by now. When did you find your bubs settled into sleeping despite the noise?

[alioops]

I usually have the tv or a radio on so I have found that helps her to sleep, because she is now so used to noise in general. do everything you can to avoid making it quiet when bubs is falling asleep and that should help with the sleep cycles. Catnappers wake at the light phase of the sleep cycle so if nothing has changed when they enter that light phase they find it easier to get back into a deep sleep. I can't remember when she started finding it easier, but if you spend a little while with constant background noise, like a radio it wont take long, maybe a week or 2?

[Emma1979]

just wanted to ask how old your baby is? the reason i ask is, my nearly 3 year old has gotten remarkably better at entertaining herself now that we have a new baby, he is 5 weeks old... in the beginning she was always asking me to do things for her, or play etc, but i was always feeding the baby, so she has sort of adjusted... she does watch more tv than i would like, but i am recovering physically from the birth and am meant to be on 4 hours bed rest a day (yeah right), so i am not beating myself up too much about the tv watching...

also with our new baby, initially i was spending time trying to get him to sleep, but now i have given up on that as i just don't have the luxury of spending time doing that, so i put him down in his vibrating chair/rocker with his dummy and he will sometimes drift off, sometimes i put him in the cot and leave him to it, and other times when nothing will work he goes in the baby swing, or in the pram... if he doesn't sleep he doesn't sleep, i provide the opportunity for him, but i just can't spend lots of time trying to get him to do it, if that makes sense...

also perhaps instead of your baby sleeping at home, you could go out for a walk to the park etc, and baby has the opportunity to sleep in the pram... i know that doesn't help much with you getting some quiet time.... perhaps build a cubby with a sheet and let him take toys in... sorry i'm pretty hopeless... i usually sit on the couch and ask her to do things, like set the train set up, or get a book for me to read while i feed..... another thing to do is take away half his toys and put them away for a few weeks, then slowly reintroduce them, and hopefully he has a renewed interest in them.... or put them away and get one out the next time you have to feed etc....

good luck xx

[Emma1979]

crap i just read your baby is 5 months.... i sleep our baby in the loungeroom during the day so he is very used to noise, as our toddler is always yelling/screaming/singing etc.... with our first born who was very highly strung and would wake if we flushed the toilet at the other end of the house (no joke), i put music on in her room to try to drown out the other household noises....

[*Belle*]

Hi there

I got Julia involved in the process of changing nappies, grabbing things for the baby etc which is loved doing. Also made sure she had something to do while I was feeding Tara. Also having snacks available is a good idea, make sure you put them near the toddler beforehand and they have them while you are feeding the baby. Reading a book to the toddler at the same timeas feeding sometimes works. Mind you I did revert to the TV too. Also Alioops idea of noisy and quiet toys are great. I also had a box that just came out while I was feeding the baby, which had craft, quiet toys etc. I also assured Julia if she was good while mummy was feeding the baby when the baby went to bed, we would have special time together just us.

Its not easy! definately challenging!

[skeetaboat]

crap i just read your baby is 5 months.... i sleep our baby in the loungeroom during the day so he is very used to noise, as our toddler is always yelling/screaming/singing etc.... with our first born who was very highly strung and would wake if we flushed the toilet at the other end of the house (no joke), i put music on in her room to try to drown out the other household noises....

I used to do the same - sleep bubs in the loungeroom, and he wasn't too bad then. But now he's the same as your firstborn, in that he wakes at the slightest noise. We sleep him in our room now but any time he's sleeping, I can't flush the toilet (or go in or out of the front door, or use the kitchen, or turn on a tap, or risk getting toddler upset & argumentative, etc etc - the noise just travels right down the hallway and wakes him).. so the white noise might help with that. I've been thinking I need it for a while but haven't got my butt into gear to go out and buy a CD player (is it just me or is taking a baby & toddler to the shops a royal nightmare?) I'm going to start that tomorrow.. thanks for motivating me!

[skeetaboat]

I'll try the background noise too, thanks Alioop

Anyone got ideas about encouraging independent play? Or is it too much to ask of a 2y9mo old?

[skeetaboat]

Hi Emma, Congrats on your bubs. Whoever told you that you need 4 hours bedrest has obviously never been a SAHP of a baby and a toddler! My baby is 5 months old. I was the same as you early days re: tv but now he seems to have developed a preference for passive entertainment over any kind of independent play, hence the reason I'm concerned about changing things.

We do set up cubbies, but he won't play in it if I don't join him.. Likewise with his trainset... he's not interested if I'm not doing it with him.. It's the same with just about anything. Which I don't mind, of course, but I think he needs to be able to play by himself *sometimes*.

I did rotate some of his toys out a couple of weeks ago so I might have to reintroduce them and see if he's interested!

What other sorts of things does your 3 yo do to entertain herself? Was she good at independent play before bubs came along?

[YoYo]

Good thread...I have a feeling I'll be dealing with the same kind of thing once my #2 comes along. My DS always wants me to be involved and doesn't really have the concept of indpendant play either....I'm hoping it comes along before May!!

I have a feeling I'll be at a lot of parks with bubs in a pram while DS plays!

[Fig]

My DD is 2.5 and my baby is 5 months so similar ages. DD is also really bad at independant play. Particulary if that idependant play means I am doing stuff with the baby.

My 5 month old only has 2-3 day sleeps (mostly only for 40 mins). Occasionally I get the odd 1.5 hour sleep out of him. Most mornings of the week I have something on with the toddler so baby sleeps in car or pram. If I am having a bad day he just goes into a sling and I wear him while he sleeps - DD doesn't really like that very much though and tends to get a bit cranky. Whenever the baby is sleeping I make a big thing of doing stuff with her and letting her now it is special time cause the baby is asleep. That way she is happier for me to spend the time putting him to sleep.

I don't do housework during the day and try to find games that I can involve both kids in. Reading books, playing outside, paddle pool, blocks, etc. I also involve her in everything to do with baby. So its her job to get the clean nappy, spew rag, toy. Somedays it works really well other days nothing is in sync and its a nightmare

Sorry not really any great tips there. I am sure it will get easier as the baby gets older and more interactive and able to play with the toddler. That way they can play together (fingers crossed).

[Saffi]

My initial thoughts are to change your baby's routine to reduce the number of sleeps but to sleep for longer. My 6month old is a catnapper too and she would only sleep for 20 mins or so at a time. When she wasn't sleeping I was either feeding or occupying her as she's a bit of a velcro baby. Have you tried resettling when the baby wakes up after the first sleep cycle?

I have started being really strict with DD in enforcing a sleep routine. Its still a work in progress but already I'm noticing she is starting to get into a routine and also sleeping for longer. I am lucky that my 2 year old is at daycare 4 days a week so I have had the luxury of being able to focus on getting DD into a routine which has been time consuming.

I agree that as the baby gets older the two of them can start to occupy each other and you will be less in demand.

I know this wasn't what you asked but IMO getting #2 sorted will benefit #1 and you too.

[~Kim~]

I think it is an age thing too, but what you are describing, while frustrating does sound normal. hun. I remember how hard it was. It's like you have to prove you love them.

My DD wasn't great either at first and it has probably taken her the better part of 10months to get better.

She was 2 and 10months when DS was born and was a great help - but some kids just aren't into that.
What helped was me giving DD some time on her own away from the house and away from the baby.
Playing with other kids helped as well. Do you go to playgroup? Does he go to CC?
DD really looked forward to her daycare days. I found that she was more independent the day after CC...and then it went downhill until the next week.
DOes he choose what to do? Do you reward him when he does play on his own? Are his communication skills good enough for you to explain to him that you need some timeout?

[skeetaboat]

Saffi - I think you are right in that if I could get the baby into a better routine then managing the toddler would be easier. But! How to do!? Got any tips? I've just tried the white noise today and she's currently having one of her longest sleeps in a very long time (70 mins so far!), so hopefully that will be the key. I have tried resettling after she wakes, but most of the time she wont resettle.

Kim - DS wanting interactive play isn't so much an attention thing - he'd happily play computer/iPhone or watch TV by himself for hours if I would let him. It's more that he doesn't want to play with ordinary toys and activities without someone playing alongside him. He's really quite good in terms of jealousy/understanding when I need to take care fo the baby. He understands what I mean when I say he needs to play alone and I need a rest, but he just doesn't *like* it.

We go to playgroup once a week, childcare once a week and grandparents once a week. Sometimes a playdate with friends/cousins thrown in too. He is good at interacting with other kids although he had a patch there where he didn't want to go to childcare because there's no computer there! So I stopped letting him use the computer shortly after that happened which remedied his disinclination and he's happy to go again.