Routines and Sleeping

[Mel86]

Hi there,
My DS is 4 months old and he was sleeping beautifully until a week and a half ago, he now wakes up at 3:00 every morning for a feed, I am not sure why this is. He has started to eat more lately could he be on a growth spurt? Also he is a very restless sleeper, being in the same room as me at the moment is hard because for some reason I can not go to sleep unless he is quiet and I cant hear him. If he keeps making noise I cant switch myself off. Any solutions for this? Moving him out of my room is not an option at the moment as I have nowhere to move him to until January when I move out.
Also people talk about routines of a night time before going to bed, The routine that I wanted to start was bath, feed, bed. But alot of different people have said that bathing you r baby everyday is bad for their skin is this true? Also it has been a bit hard getting him into a routine as he doesn't have his bottles at the same time all the time he is very all over the place.
Sorry for all the questions but I am still very new at this and the health nurses haven't been real helpful on the sleep and eat issues.

[shazza]

maybe mel u could give him a bath the same time everynight and the after bathb give him his bottle whenever he wants it or read to him or something special .its hard to get them into a routine at that age just do whatever works for u .at that age hes fine to have a bath everynight soon u will have to when it gets hot as he will get sweaty.i haer you on the sleep we have jess in our room and we cant move her anywhere to we buy a bigger house as there is no room for her.so really ive got no suggestions for u there sorry

[Smoke Jaguar]

Hi again, Mel
Good questions!
DS will likely change his patterns quite a bit in the first 2 years, so don't be too alarmed when things change - try going with the flow, which means keeping your 'routines' flexible.
Generally, I prefer to talk about routines in terms of 'cues'. This means instead of doing things by the clock, do things in a certain order. For us, DS knows it's bedtime when the lights start to go off in the house (we wind down the day), the bedside lamps go on in the bedroom etc. Our bedtime routine has changed a few times since he was born, and this is where it's at now.
Don't be afraid to have DS sleep with you - many people do this, many more than will admit to it, too!! We openly co-sleep, though It means I wake feeling rested (as rested as possible, I'd sleep till midday if I could!), I get a better sleep because DS is right next to me for night feeds (some nights he'll go hours between feeds, other times he might want a feed every 3 hours, still!!). And it is just the sweetest thing I've ever done to wake up next to my angel once DP has gone off to work.
MCHN nurses are notorious for giving conflicting advice - conflicting with other nurses and conflicting with your own inclinations. So, don't let them talk to you as if they know your son better. They don't. I don't care how many degrees they have, they don't have a degree in my own child. They tend to be far more dogmatic to young mothers, too, so watch out for that.
Are you sleeping with him in your bed? Only to be done if you're not a smoker, obese or on medication (legal or otherwise) that alters your consciousness. Some kids are wriggly and people abandon this practice because of it, but I wonder if after a few wriggly nights (maybe even a couple of weeks) the babies get used to it and stop wriggling - I don't know, because DS has never been wriggly unless he's sick and he's slept with us since he was born.
As for increased feeds - if he's saying he is hungry (well, not 'saying'!), then his body knows best and he's just obeying what his body says. It's up to you whether you try to 'train' him out of that, but I am of the opinion that "who am I to argue with his body?", so I just feed, even when he feeds more often than usual, and it only tends to last a short time before he spends longer between feeds again.
Just when you think you've got a pattern established, he'll go and change it on you! This could be his body's response to environmental changes (weather, warm or cold), his activity levels, your own daily activities with him etc.
Remember that on breastmilk there is no set amount that needs to be given - his body will ask for it on a needs basis. With formula, there IS a set amount because there is only ever a set amount of nutrients in it and that's the minimum a child should be getting. Your milk will change according to his body's demands, so don't get hung up on when he stays on for longer, or if he doesn't feed for as long.
My SIL was 17 when she had her first child, 19 with her second, and 27 with her 3rd. She has had more outside help and issues with her 3rd than she ever had with her first two! She breastfed both of them for longer than 12 months and she remembers having a lot of trust in her own instincts back then, too. What I'm saying is that you have the knowledge inside of you, you just need to listen to it and trust it There are women who can't seem to do this, and there are usually reasons for this (abuse, drug use, or some other abnormality etc). From your postings so far, I don't think there is any impediment to you being able to tune in to your child and be an awesome mummy. I'm not being patronising, I have faith in you and so should you!
ETA: sorry, I missed the bit about him being on bottles! I'll adjust what I wrote to say that he might just need his prescribed amount of formula more often because it's not enough to give it to him at set times and his body is asking for more. If you were breastfeeding, he might be having longer feeds, or just feeding more often - but it wouldn't be as much of a hassle because you wouldn't need to wake up as fully at 3am. Are you BFing at all?

[mrsr]

Mel, my DS had the same routine for the first 12 months of his life pretty much when it came to the evening routine. Bath, feed, bed - always at the same time....and we kept the noise level the same, not too loud and not dead quiet either. When he started solids, he'd eat first, then bath, boob/bottle and straight to bed. I always used the J&J moisturising baby wash every day and his skin was never dried out. The bath was always a lovely sedate, yet playful, happy time and really helped him I think. As for not bathing each day...how would you feel if you weren't bathed each day. I'd be crotchety!!! Unless they've got an existing skin condition, I'd wash the baby each day without fail.

At 4 months, I started putting him down for a sleep during the day in his cot in his own room, slowly getting him used to being in there and then eventually took him out of our room and he adapted beautifully. I know what you mean though about listening to him...

Even now at 6 years of age, his evening routine is always the same and he knows what he should do when we say, time to get ready for bed. Routine is like a security blanket in my opinion. Babies like what they know.

[Smoke Jaguar]

I don't know about that as a blanket rule, mrsr My DS doesn't seem to have much respect for routines and he's a pretty happy child! Each child is different, though, and that's why we need to tune in to them.
As for bathing every day - they don't need it, but I also don't think it's bad for their skin, depending on what you're putting into the bath. You shouldn't need to use an additional moisturiser unless there is a dry skin condition that's unrelated to the bath product you use. I'd stay away from supermarket brand baby washes and you can just use a vegetable oil in the bath. A jojoba or calendula oil is excellent, as it leaves a soft film on their skin and they feel so nice to touch after a bath! There is also the Gaia Baby bath and body wash that is organic and contains lavender and chamomile - doesn't strip the skin at all, and the essential oils calm baby in mind and on skin.
So, yes, there are babies who crave routine (according to a time schedule) and there are babies that don't - they just need cues and patterns, some don't even need those to be regular. There is no prescription, so play around and find what works.

[shazza]

hey just wondering where u would get the gaiaa baby bath as jess skin feels a bit dry

[*Ali*]

We dont have a routine in our house so much as going by the clock, but like Maya, we have a set of cues that lead up to bed time.
My DD went through a stage of waking up at 3 am but she grew out of it after while, I think it was growth spurt.
As for bathing we have always bathed every night and it hasnt affected her skin at all.
Usually now we do dinner, bath, play and bottle in bed every night, not at any set time, but always in that order.

[Phteven]

Hi Mel, our evening routine is dinner, bath, book, bed.
It works for us and I find that when we change it that it's harder for the boys to get to sleep. The great thing about having a simple routine is that even when we go away the boys will settle really well in strange hotels and the like because the routine helps them know what's coming and gives them a sense of security.
We don't really use anything much in the bath unless they're extra dirty. When they were little I used sorbolene on thier nappy area and now I just use DH's soap. Unless your bubba has a skin problem like excema I don't think there's any need for fancy schamncy products and baby washes etc - it's all marketing designed to seperate us from our money. I use a no tears shampoo.

[Smoke Jaguar]

I'd rather have my separated money go to the SAHM who lives in Emerald who makes Gaia out of a factory in Rowville (right near me! Fulfills the 100 mile diet criteria! Except I don't eat it...) than to the big companies who use petrochemicals in their product to make it cheap enough to buy, but not so good on for my family's skin I'm not gullible, I just don't see a place for petrochemicals in my skin products, and that to me makes them less fancy schmancy, and just more natural. We all make our own informed choices.
Not to say every one's skin suffers from these products, either - you might find them just as good. But they do strip the body's natural oils, and a baby has a good dose of skin softening oils that you want to leave one, and more natural products protect that, whilst calming any redness with lavender and chamomile (the only two recommended oils for young children anyway, as well as a touch of mandarin, if you so desire). I make my own bath oil with these oils and calendula oil. The Gaia was a gift and I use it when I want a bubble effect.
I found that having a Hug a Bub sling next to the bed during DS's more fussy periods (I remember 4 months being one of them!), so that if he woke upset, I would quickly tie it on, feed him, stick him in, rock him in it and he would be back asleep in 5 minutes, so then we could both go back to sleep. A sling for after a bottle could be a good investment

[Rouge]

It depends on your child's skin Mel as to whether or not its good or bad for their skin. My kids had baths every day sometimes every other day and they were fine. I couldn't use things like Gaia on my kids skin as I found it was an irritant and would add to their eczema. I too would love to support the smaller companies but sadly my kids skin doesn't allow it, and second to that their products aren't that cheap and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

With regards to sleeping, sounds like he is doing really well! I remember those noises that bubs makes and how annoying it was for me too. Its hard when you can't move them out of your room... my only advice would be a light pillow, over your ears LOL! I used to do that with Paris when she was little, and yes I still heard her so no I didn't neglect a crying baby :P

I just want you to know I think you are doing an absolutely fantastic job Keep it up!!!!

*hugs*
Cailin

[christy]

A gentle bath product that we used to use (before we found out our girls are allergic to oats) is put a handful of rolled oats in a stocking with a few drops of lavender oil. It smells fantastic & softens skin. All natural and you haven't had to buy anything too special.

We don't use anything in our baths atm, maybe 2 drops of lavender oil and thats it.

We too buy gaia natural products but the bath soap was exacerbating Jovie's ezcema so we are better off with nothing, we do use sorbolene when she gets out of the bath for a massage.

[Smoke Jaguar]

For eczema I recommend calendula oil or jojoba, as well as a few drops of german cham and lavender Also, rosehip oil has a good effect - DS has had some patches lately and when I first didn't know what it was it went red and inflamed, and after making up this mixture, within three days it had gone away. Calendula oil was about $12, Jojoba $19 and about $12 for each essential oil...and it would make about 8-10 25 ml dropper bottles! Might seem like a lot, but it works out in the end.
In the early days, we just used extra virgin olive oil, or sweet almond oil in the bath.

[Trillian]

it sounds to me like you are already following a baby led routine in a way in that you feed him when he is hungry and not when you think he should be which is a great thing to do. You can still adopt the feed/bath/bed habits without it being at a set time too. A bath doesn't have to be the full kit and kaboodle with soap and fancy lotions, just a quiet splash in some nice warm water will achieve the same thing. Are you looking to start a more defined routine of doing things or are you happy with the way things are?

At this age they start to go through a lot developmentally which could account for the frequent wakings and extra feeds.

Have you tried using ear plugs to blot out some of the night noises he makes? They will still allow you to hear him when he really wants you, but you wont be able to hear the quieter sleeping noises.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

With bath products, for small babies just warm water is enough. You don't need ANY products! DS has eczema and it doesn't flare up with plain water.

I did look at DS's baby horoscope to see what sort of routines and games he would appreciate for winding down, that wasa Godsend as he does settle quickly now, but it took a week or so for him to understand. Far better than the unsettled 2-3 months before that of a routine that wasn't working for him!

[Smoke Jaguar]

No, no products needed. If you want something a little extra, though, best to stick to natural Water won't alleviate eczema, but it won't irritate it, either.
Mel - I think you need less advice than you think you think you do! But please keep posting in to bounce ideas off us

[Rachel]

Mel, my DD is now 6 months old. She used to sleep through the night beautifully until she hit 4 months old, then she started to wake frequently through the night wanting extra feeds. Luckily this has settled down, but she still doesn't sleep as long overnight without waking for feeds. We follow a feed (BF), feed (solids - just started so only a small amount), bath, cuddles, bed routine. We do this routine to coincide with a BF that falls anytime after 5pm (sometimes slightly earlier). So no set time but it does occur early evening everyday. Before 4 months of age she would go to bed and sleep through, now she also wakes between 9pm and 10pm for another feed, then she will wake up sometime between 3 and 5am, then back to sleep until usually around 8am. We bath her everyday and have done since she was born (we have gone maybe 4 nights without a bath as it became part of the bedtime routine and it seemed to work). We have not had any skin problems. Also, she loves her bath as it is a time for her to be nude (she loves this) and kick around in warm water. Sounds like you are doing a great job, as for the waking I think that may just be a thing they do at 4 months.

[Mel86]

Hi everyone.
Thank you every one for all your replies. Sorry I have not posted sooner I have been flat out. Well last night DS slept from 11:30 till 5:00 so that was not to bad. Better than waking up at 3 in the morning. I actually do think he may have been on a growth spurt as he has now cut down on his feedings again. Instead of every 3 and a half to 4 hours eating he is back to eating every 4 and a half to 5 hours. He is on thickened formula because he had really bad reflux so I hope that every 5 hours is ok. Well thank you everyone for all your help you have all been great!
Mel