DD is been quite out spoken these days though she can't express herself by language. So, she decided to scream/yell to whatever she doesn't like. I've been saying "no" in a calm tone slowly turning to more a firm voice but she doesn't seem to understand. I don't want her to turn out like kids whom the parents would have to chase after in order to get their attention. Having said that, I don't want to seem mean but I know that putting a limitation to certain things will do her good later.
For instance, she has such a bad table manner. She sits in her highchair with one or two of her legs up. I tried putting them down each time she does that, and when I do it, she would scream and hit me.
Another thing which I mentioned was the yelling and screaming to whatever she doesn't like (being seated in her highchair, not letting her to take things from the tables, etc).
Am I demanding too much if I want to start the discipline though not much could be done now... how did you do it and when would be the best time to start?
I think there is nothing wrong with starting simple discipline at this age.. I would however tell her what she is doing wrong as such.. Instead of just No.. Say I want you to put your feet down please.. Yes she is young but she also understands a lot more then we realise..
My DD has starting pulling peoples hair. she doesnt do it to hurt but more because she is interested. I don't stop her if she is just playing with it but if she grabs and pulls. I gently take her hand and say that hurts Mummy.. be gentle..
I started disciplining Cooper from birth basically. OK, maybe telling and demonstrating what I expect from him would be more accurate. When he did something like pull hair etc, I would take his hand to make him look at me and say no because ....... (i.e. that hurts mummy or that is not nice etc). You have to be consistent but they will understand eventually and often a lot earlier than I thought he would be able to.
The key for me was consistency (doing it every time and getting DH to follow my lead if it happened with him) and trying never to lose me temper (which was sometimes very hard!). You show that you expect a certain level of behaviour and expect it all the time. They are kids, they will push boundaries and play up but if they know what is acceptable, then the majority of times are good times.
Oh and the most important part of all is PRAISE. When Cooper does something right (even if it is a small thing in the middle of a horrendous day), he knows it. He gets kisses, cuddles, words like good job, great, that was fantastic, you are so smart etc. He lights up because he knows that I am proud of him and it was easy for him to do so it encourages him to do it again.
It has worked beautifully. Cooper is generally a well-behaved little boy though we still get the tantrums etc. After all he IS 2 next month.
If she has her feet on the table, tell her no, we don't put our feet on the table & put them down like you are already. If she hits, tell her no it's not nice to hit etc. Make sure you explain everything to her. She may not understand at this age, but she will learn if you are consistent. Explain that mummy & daddy don't put their feet on the table do they? Then PRAISE!! A LOT!! Tell her how good she is for sitting nicely, that she has lovely manners etc.
Carmen, please please remember that you're still dealing with a little baby, and you have to set your expectations about 'behaviour' accordingly. Unlike adults, babies & toddlers don't have impulse control, from memory it takes a good couple of years before this skill gets mapped in their brains, so you have to be consistent with your rules, but kind in how you implement them, and rely a lot on removal & distraction - ie tell/explain her your rule, but then pick her up & remove her from the situation. THe other thing with kids is that they tend not to hear the "Don't" in the phrase - as in Don't touch the TV Remote", instead what they hear is "Touch the TV remote". so if you can, try to rephrase the request into a positive request like "please leave the TV remote alone". This is also a good way to minimise the number of times you use the word no, although it's much harder work, because you have to think about what you're saying so much more, as it's not as easy as just saying no. And like Sarah said, Praise, praise praise - kids just want to make you happy, and if you notice the good things that they do then these are the activities that they'll repeat. Also, your DD is probably reaching the age where she realises just how much there is to do in the world & how physically limited she is (due to her size & limited co-ordination), and this is frustating - she just wants to get out & learn about everything.
Have a little faith in yourself - if you've got good manners then there is a very good chance that your DD will do just fine, because you are her biggest role model. And, it's cliche, but don't sweat the small stuff - she's probably only putting her feet on the table because it feels interesting, she won't be doing it when she's 4. I think that if it's not hurting them, you or the thing, then go with the flow a bit, otherwise it will do your head in, and you'll be stressed & she'll be stressed and then you'll just have a vicious circle of stressedness.
I agree with you all that consistency is important. I think sometimes I give in because I'm so tired of repeating myself. DD seems to know that she could push my limit since I'm not as consistent as DH. When it comes to DH, he's more consistent but I find that he's a little too strict with DD (she is afterall 8 months old).
I think what made me give in at times is that I'm frustrated and instead of raising my voice at her, I just let it go. Not a good mommy! I will try Sarah's suggestion and praise lots. Maybe that will make her realize what I like so she would do more.
Another thing that I have always done is by saying "no". I was told that toddlers hate to hear "no" and whenever they hear "no" they will do it on purpose. I'll have some word rephrasing to do so I don't have so be a parakeet in saying no!
By the way, is it okay to give a little tap on DD's hand when she's throwing things (food, water bottle) on the floor from her highchair after many "no". Or should I just remove these things from her if she keeps on throwing them on the floor?
I know that this age is very delicate and I really don't want to do anything to have a bad start...
I think discipline starts from the beginning when they decide to bite you on the boob! I take Jesse off, say no & he doesn't get it back.
When they start crawling you discipline them to get them away from power points etc.
My girls are older, but I find they get it better when I explain it to them. Eg, feet on the table is rude, rather than just no. But at her age you aren't going to get too far.
Just keep persisting gently.
I recommend reading a book called "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn as a foundation to your approach to 'discipline'. Also, the Science of Parenting, as well as ANYTHING by the Sears (google them) in relation to anything parenting.
One of the things Kohn says that sticks in my mind is this:
Think about what kind of adult you want your child to be - most people would say independent-thinker, taking initiative, go-getting etc. We tend not to 'train' them this way, oddly enough! We 'train' them to be subservient, not to listen to their instincts, to look for the approval of someone else (i.e. the use and reliance on praise, an external reward, not an intrinsic one) etc. How can the way we 'train' our children result in the adults we want them to be? Food for thought. Kohn goes into it really well.
Rewards and punishments are not utilised in my house to elicit desired outcomes. Love, modelling and sharing (verbally) the value in doing things a certain way are what we use
I have done exactly what Sarah does for the past 6.5 yrs and its worked marvelously. Paris is an awesome kid (I know I'm biased ) She speaks her mind and knows when to be respectful. We have a very open and understanding relationship. This morning she even told me about how a week ago when she'd asked to take a delicate ornament to school for show and tell and I said no, that she was going to sneak it into her bag, then she thought no I better not if it breaks then I'll feel really bad (which was my reasoning for her not taking it). I praised her for her honesty and I said I was proud of her for making the right decision and glad she felt comfortable telling me. So I dunno I look at her and I'm proud of what I've done (and there isn't much in my life thanks to my crappy self esteem that I can say that about). And I look at Seth who is a handful and he's already following in his sisters footsteps even if we've had to tweak it a little I think communication above all, understanding of temperaments and not treating them like stupid adults all leads to well rounded children. Consistency is important but consistency also applies to adults to in this house. If we do something that upsets her and she has asked us not to do xyz she has just of a right to be upset and express that as we do, and it is up to us to try and find a solution to resolve that, and work out a plan to prevent it in the future with her as we would do in reverse. Its not just about discipline its the entire package.
ETA: It crashed and didn't save the last line... grrr... What I said was IMO boundaries don't disempower children (and I'm not talking discipline here) but its about the entire relationship you have with your child, as that can.
Last edited by Rouge; July 31st, 2008 at 01:05 PM.
ok, I wasn't going to come back in, but I can't help myself... the throwing things on the floor is a major part of her development, she's learning about cause & effect. What happens if I drop this toy - where does it go? What sound does it make when it drops on the floor? Will mum/dad pick it up for me? it's really, really normal kid behaviour, and can become a bit of a game. Having said that, if you don't want her to do it, or at least to not do it too much, then don't give her things to drop, and don't pick them up every time. I personally wouldn't make too big a deal about it with her, when my DS is in a dropping mood, I just quietly pick up the pieces and put them away, or if it's food, I just put it to the side. That way they're not getting a reaction (good or bad), so it becomes boring & they'll eventually stop doing it.
I totally agree, I would do the same with Seth until he was a bit older that was then I would say "if you do xyz mummy will take it away" rather than just flat out no all the time. No can be sooooo draining if its all you ever say, and yes I have days like that too but usually when I sit back and go ok lets change tact and converse with my kids rather than just give orders things go a lot smoother.
In my own thinking, just saying 'no' to something you don't approve of only asserts power (when it's not safety related) and doesn't impart anything else in terms of enduring lessons. Definitely explain the rationale - better to bombard them with concepts that may escape them for now than to condescend to such a rapidly expanding intelligence.
Jan - I do this, too DS is now at an age where he can help me clean up after throwing toys around. Unfortunately, we have a small dog whom DS has come to rely on to clean up his food dropping. But I can say that it's a declining activity!
Modelling is so powerful and it becomes very apparent a bit later on. For us, DS is just over 2 and the fruits of good modelling are becoming manifest now. The ladies in his childcare will tell me what he's been doing (2 days a week) and it's lovely to know that he models what we've been teaching him even when we're not there
I consider it guidance. I have no idea what kind of parent I am, but I let them see the consequences of their actions - both good and bad - I hope they choose the right way. Hugs and cuddles for lovely manners etc, and tbh lots of the time I ignore cr@ppy behaviour. They choose the best path most of the time, but hey they are little and even I find drawing on the walls fun....
It's so good to hear from all of you, experienced ladies. After having read these replies, I have found that I definitely need to be way more persistent than I have been. ATM, I shouldn't be stressed that she is starting off badly. I think I should explain the rationale to her why she shouldn't/should do this instead of "no". Also, since yesterday, I've been praising her more for the things that I love her doing (just simple things), i.e. eating well behaved, playing with my chihuahua in a friendly manner. She definitely loved being praised.
DD could definitely differentiate my good/bad moods. When she does something wrong so many times, I sometimes would get irritated and I would find her the same manner. I told myself that if these bad moments come, I should probably leave her in cot or somewhere safe and then walk to another room just so that I could refresh myself without having to upset her in any way.
Mayaness, to hear that you have such good results from being a good role model is just so encouraging. I try being the best I could ever since DD was born just cause I know that babies/kids pick up behaviors very fast. Although she might be young, but I think that she have some understandings of what I do everyday and what is considered acceptable. I may have been not the best in everyway since I've had my bad days, but I will definitely remember your experiences and keep myself in mind that it's important to be a good role model to them and that good fruits will eventually come out of it.
I'm leaving DH for a one week vacation in Mexico this Saturday. I will definitely use this week off to relax and have a good talk with DH so we could both come up with the same behavior in front of DD.
Charlotte is prety much the same age as Nicky, and I find that I use the word no very infrequently.
I have used the word no from teh beginning though too so she knows what it is and what it means. lol she is just cheeky, like most kids, adn she will test the boundaries and experience her world...Like Jan said, about cause and effect. It is important for them to learn when they drop something from the high chair where and how is goes. It is important that she learn when she doesnt keep her footing or tries to let go of the couch that she falls down. That the glass door is infact there even though she can see through it, and she will bump her head.
I am a big believer in not moving my house just because she is now crawling around. That cat food will always be there, so I may as wel teach her not to touch it now.
when she goes for the cat food (as she does daily! lol) I say "Charlotte. No." Firmly. She understands the word, adn my tone and she stops, looks and me, pulls her hand back and then a few seconds later iwll try again. So I repeat myself, and say something like "Leave the pussy cats food alone" or "thats not for Chalrotte" ...She will inevitably try again, so I repeat again and remove her from the situation adn give her something else to play with.
After a few weeks, we are getting to the point now where I very rarely need to remove her from the food, she iwll leave it alone herself and move away. I do the same with the wine rack adn cat litter tray...power points or cables that I cannot hide, etc.
It is only through persistance that she understands "no" and understands more importantly I think, the tone of voice.
I wear glasses and find this the most challenging as she likes to pull them off, both the play with them adn to be able to play with my face (which is adorable really! lol) But I need her to learn so I remind her that "mummy needs those to see your beautiful face". Of course, when they respond to the instruction, lots of smiles and giggles and praise is the most reinforcing.
So I think that it is good that you are setting out boundaries and rules and expectations now, but keep in mind that she is only 8 months old, she will spill thigs, want to puther hands in her food and wipe them all over the table, drop food and things on the floor and whilst you may not want her to do them forever, she most likely wont, she is just learning
PS: Is it a possibility that she puts her feet up because she is slipping or uncomfortable in the chair? Or the harnes sis cutting into her legs or between her legs or something?
Charlotte is prety much the same age as Nicky, and I find that I use the word no very infrequently.
I have used the word no from teh beginning though too so she knows what it is and what it means. lol she is just cheeky, like most kids, adn she will test the boundaries and experience her world...Like Jan said, about cause and effect. It is important for them to learn when they drop something from the high chair where and how is goes. It is important that she learn when she doesnt keep her footing or tries to let go of the couch that she falls down. That the glass door is infact there even though she can see through it, and she will bump her head.
I am a big believer in not moving my house just because she is now crawling around. That cat food will always be there, so I may as wel teach her not to touch it now.
when she goes for the cat food (as she does daily! lol) I say "Charlotte. No." Firmly. She understands the word, adn my tone and she stops, looks and me, pulls her hand back and then a few seconds later iwll try again. So I repeat myself, and say something like "Leave the pussy cats food alone" or "thats not for Chalrotte" ...She will inevitably try again, so I repeat again and remove her from the situation adn give her something else to play with.
After a few weeks, we are getting to the point now where I very rarely need to remove her from the food, she iwll leave it alone herself and move away. I do the same with the wine rack adn cat litter tray...power points or cables that I cannot hide, etc.
It is only through persistance that she understands "no" and understands more importantly I think, the tone of voice.
I wear glasses and find this the most challenging as she likes to pull them off, both the play with them adn to be able to play with my face (which is adorable really! lol) But I need her to learn so I remind her that "mummy needs those to see your beautiful face". Of course, when they respond to the instruction, lots of smiles and giggles and praise is the most reinforcing.
So I think that it is good that you are setting out boundaries and rules and expectations now, but keep in mind that she is only 8 months old, she will spill thigs, want to puther hands in her food and wipe them all over the table, drop food and things on the floor and whilst you may not want her to do them forever, she most likely wont, she is just learning
PS: Is it a possibility that she puts her feet up because she is slipping or uncomfortable in the chair? Or the harnes sis cutting into her legs or between her legs or something?
Anyway, hope that helps
LImeslice,
Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I agree with you very much that it is more important for her to understand why it is to do this instead of hearing my tone of word. I have noticed that DD has gotten a better behavior since I tried to explain her the rationale of each thing instead of saying no to what I don't want her to do.
As to her dropping food, I think it is just a normal development in her age. I am pretty sure she won't be doing this forever. So, I guess I will just have to learn to put up with this for a bit until she understands more.
Charlotte is very much like Nicky too. I also wear glasses and she loves playing with them. Unfortunately, I ended up buying a new pair as she threw my old pair on the floor and broke the frame. So, I've been pretty strict with her in that area. Now, she leaves my glasses alone! And if she tries to grab for them after playing with my face, I'll just tell her "oh oh, mommy can't see anything... Nicky, help mommy to find her glasses so mommy can come play with you."
You're right, I can't move my house around just so that things are away from her. I will have to watch her and be persistent in what I don't want her to get into (my chihuahua's training pads)...
As for her feet on the highchair's table. I don't think it's related to anything. I think that she's just more comfortable to have them up. So this, I will have to be persistent and tell her that it's rude to have feet up and that mommy and daddy don't do it either.
Thank you for everyone's replies. You ladies are my role model!
I do move things around my house according to DS's stage of exploration. Anything I could not bare to lose is moved. Anything that would be expensive to fix is moved until further notice. It's just not worth the risk in our house - it's full of antique furniture and ornaments that have been in DP's family for about a hundred years! I have no compunction to make my house child-friendly for the few short years that it will take for our children will not understand the value of material things (come to think of it, maybe they're teaching US a lesson??). I figure, the rest of our world is un-child-friendly enough without them having to be on their 'best behaviour' at home, too. Now that DS is older, less needs to be kept out of his way because he is realising what we dont' want him into. If something gets broken I don't get mad at him (though I might exclaim in horror, initially!) and I don't consider it to be the 'wrong' thing - he doesn't understand 'wrong', he's exploring and experimenting with his environment and if he got to something and broke it, it's ultimately my own oversight that he got to it.
As you can see, I'm pretty relaxed about the whole thing - there's enough tension when we go to other people's places (where there are no children living there) to want to bring it home! I, personally, don't see anything wrong with catering for children and making things 'about them', including household arrangement of furniture and goods. It's the only time in their lives that this will be the case - the world will set them straight in good time!
So, to add to the mosaic of perspectives here, I never have worried about 'discipline', 'manners' etc. On a forum this can seem so one-dimensional and must point to a feral child outcome - I'm not going to write a thesis about my approach, just that I go by instinct and sensitivity to his needs and developmental stages (putting my psych degree to practical use!).
Do what sits right with you, not anyone else - you're only ultimately answerable to yourself and your child
When do you start discipline and how to do it?
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) She speaks her mind and knows when to be respectful. We have a very open and understanding relationship. This morning she even told me about how a week ago when she'd asked to take a delicate ornament to school for show and tell and I said no, that she was going to sneak it into her bag, then she thought no I better not if it breaks then I'll feel really bad (which was my reasoning for her not taking it). I praised her for her honesty and I said I was proud of her for making the right decision and glad she felt comfortable telling me. So I dunno I look at her and I'm proud of what I've done (and there isn't much in my life thanks to my crappy self esteem that I can say that about). And I look at Seth who is a handful and he's already following in his sisters footsteps even if we've had to tweak it a little 
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