Is your partner as well informed as you?

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I love reading the birth stories on BB, they're all so beautiful But I've noticed a fairly common theme when people talk about their support people - generally partners.

So, we have a woman who is pregnant. She researches EVERYTHING and is determined to have an empowered birth experience, vaginal or caesar. She makes sure she is completely confident in her answers to professionals who threaten to induce her big baby, or cut her so she doesn't tear, or anything else that goes against her birth plan. *All of which is GREAT, I promise I'll get to the point*

She also decides to have her partner with her for support. The only thing is, while she's done all this research, has her partner? When she goes into labour, and its too late to Google things, is her partner as confident in the face of cascading interventions? Or is her partner more likely to be scared by the (sometimes) OTT warnings, and then become a support person for the doctors rather than the labouring woman?

I've noticed that a lot of women feel let down by their support person, because when they really NEEDED support, their support got intimidated. So my long awaited questions are - How important do you think it is for your support person/s to be as informed as you are? Do you think it would have made a difference in your birth experience if they were more informed?

[thepixie]

In my case the Bear was probably more well-researched than I was. I read books but he has a way of researching things within an inch of their lives so he was pretty on top of it all. It might have helped that his first wife was a doctor and they were together when she went through medical school and did her post-grad years in hospitals so he was pretty cluey about hospital procedures etc too. Also when I was a week overdue he prompted me to go and get some acupuncture (and researched to find a truly awesome acupuncturist) to try and induce labour or at least get things moving a bit so that even if I did need to be induced my body would be ready IYKWIM.
I have to say he was the most unbelievably awesome labour support and the only times I felt like I really wasn't coping or didn't know what was going on were when he left the room - once to get some food cause it was about 7pm and he hadn't eaten since breakfast and then after she was born he went with her to NICU.
I really don't know how I would have done it without him.

[AliB]

Great question Berenice and one I have been pondering lately.

My DP is a very 'supportive' 'support-person-to-be and really listens to and takes in anything I've told him.. but fact is, he hasn't read all the books, birth stories, online articles and threads, so although I imagine we're on the same wave length, we might not be when it comes to the crunch!

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

What a brilliant support for you Pixie - GO BEAR!!

Thats what I mean Ali, you can prepare yourself and be confident in yourself, but your support is another person! Do you think you'll give him some stuff to read, or just trust him to support you when you need it?

[TeniBear]

I think it is important, but my DH isn't as informed as me. He knows a lot of the basic stuff - what I don't want, etc. - but a lot of it, he doesn't know why I want things a certain way. He just knows he has to go along with what I say I try to test him, too, with certain situations - "Okay, pretend I can't answer for some reason, and the doctor says they need your permission for an epidural. What do you do?!?"

He's pretty much on my side though, he knows I don't make big decisions lightly so in his eyes I must have done the research. And I have, I tend to get as much information as I can about things.

I've also typed up a very detailed version of my birth plan for him to read, with a lot of the "whys" answered. I try to get him to read books, and BB, but he's not much of a reader I'm confident he'll come through for me though. My mum on the other hand... I should get her reading, she's not able to be swayed as much by me as DH is...

[Liviam]

Don't have time to respond now but will be back later.

[AliB]

Do you think you'll give him some stuff to read, or just trust him to support you when you need it?

I am trying to get him to do some reading but he just falls asleep when he picks up a book!?!?! Usually because he's been so busy shopping, cooking, doing handyman stuff, etc so I can hardly rouse on him! Although I did seriously tell him on Saturday that I was getting concerned and wanted him to read the 'Birth Skills' book. [ He was about 10 mins into when we discovered that the gutter had backed up and water was filling the cellar and dripping through the bedroom ceiling, so there went the afternoon! ]

TBH I've been frequently surprised with how much he knows, I think he does google stuff while at work

Tenibear that's a good idea to test some 'what if's' in our birth plan.

[Snowy Love]

My DH only knew what I told him and what we got at antenatal classes. He read my birth plan & knew and accepted my wishes, but if something had gone pearshaped (and we were at a less supportive hospital) I don't know if he would have been able to advocate for me. He wouldn't read the books.

[Cherished]

I haven't had a bub yet I imagine my dh will be just as informed as me! I had to giggle about your google comment because I could imagine dh there with his laptop open googleing everything as it's happening Seriously though I think it is important for your support person to be informed because that is who the dr's will be listening to. I am confident that dh will stand up for whatever he believes and whatever I want, I also trust him to make the right decision for our wellbeing because he is really in tune with me and thinks clearly under pressure.

[*star*]

I have been pondering this a lot lately too, particularly as I found out some more information about my labour (which was long >24hrs, epidural towards end and resulted in a c-section, none of which I wanted).

I too had confidence that DH would support me and my decisions before my labour. I had stressed how I didn't want an epidural and was not comfortable with a c-section unless there was foetal distress. BUT he didn't know why and refused to read any of the literature. The only things he knew was what I had told him, and I don't think he really connected with the pregnancy at all. He said I went on about a lot of things he wasn't really interested in. Now, this doesn't sound like a loving supportive husband, but he really, really is. We tried the pink kit together, but he made fun of it and couldn't see the use of it all. This stuff just didn't interest him and the process of getting the baby here seemed trivial to him, as long as it got there (I have only just worked this out, as I am TTC#2 now).

He was very supportive during the first parts of the labour, walked with me, etc. But I think it all dragged on a bit long for him, especially when I found the pain of DD's head against my pelvis unbearable. I found that instead of him supporting me, I felt I wasn't getting the advice my brain that couldn't work all this out needed (partly midwives fault too). I vaguely remember him being involved with initiating the epidural discussion with the midwife. At the time I was happy to accept, I needed the break. But maybe I needed to be challenged that I could do this, and given some different positions to help?? As far as I currently know, noone was aware that DD was posterior until during the c-section (getting my records from hospital now to confirm this).

Now DH admitted to me recently that he brought up the c-section option when after 2 hours of pushing there was no progress. To him, I think he thought he was hleping me out. He really didn't know when he told me how angry this would make me feel. I currently feel very undermined and don't know where I stand with him. He is such a great partner and father, this doesn't change that, but it does make me question his value at the birth.

To be honest I had questioned this before labour, but was more concerned about him being queasy, and he was a little unsure himself. I read up about whether you should have your partner at the birth and came to the conclusion that I really wanted him there and that he would provide more help than hindrance. I also thought it would be a real positive and he would be glad he had been through it all when the point came for the baby to arrive and he would see how this labour produced something so beautiful.

This time around (although we aren't pg yet) I have said that he would not need to be present for the labour (and in my mind I currently prefer him not to be, perhaps until the pushing part where he can see an alternative to the c-section we had last time). He has said he wants to be there, but we have a while to discuss. One thing that I am definitely going to do is have a doula there who understands me and why I would like the things I stipulate. I feel comfortable that this time I won't be undermined.

DH is so uninformed that he thinks I must have another c-section, although I have told him that I will be doing everything I can to avoid that. I was told straight after birth that there was no reason I couldn't have a vaginal birth next time, but because he hasn't checked it out, he thinks that they were just trying to be nice to me-???!!

Sorry for the really long post, I know a fair bit isn't relevant, but it is a topic I had been thinking of posting myself sometime soon, and it has all just come tumbling out.

I guess, don't think that my story wouldn't happen with your DH (as I did when I'd read others)- DH is very loving, etc., and very capable and intelligent if he had WANTED to look into these things, but in the end it wasn't something important to him, certainly not as important as it was to me!

[Mummato2]

:yeahthat:

My DH is the exact same! God knows I've tried. I booked a Calm Birth course thinking that maybe if he was involved in a class it would mean he could just absorb - but he did none of the follow up. Then I bought him Birth Skills (JuJu Sundin) and thought it had pictures and summaries so he could skim......it's still on the bedside table.

When I had it out with him in a hormonal rage the other day he simply said "I am just not interested - sorry!"

Now this would make him sound extremely horrible and selfish - and in a way it is - but on the other hand he is the kind of guy that does well under pressure and thinks well on his feet.

He knows my birth plan and wishes and when faced with intense situations, he actually does pretty well.

I think men are wired differently to women and if you ask a man to research which is the best oil for their motorbikes they'll have the patience to read it. But ask them to research the hormonal responses in natural labour etc - you may as well put the fake open eye glasses on them because I'll tell ya their brains have already gone to sleep.

I tried guilting him into it, saying he'd regret it down the track and I'll blame him if I don't get what I need from him on the day - but it still didn't make a difference.

But when I said to him "so if I am told that I need AROM to get things moving and I can't respond, what will you say" and bugger me if he didn't answer me perfectly.

So although I agree that it's really important that your partner be up on the information, some just don't have the same yearning for research - but I'll bet if you spend 9 months explaining what you want and why some will sink in

[AliB]

Then I bought him Birth Skills (JuJu Sundin) and thought it had pictures and summaries so he could skim......it's still on the bedside table

DITTO!!

If it makes you feel better, I also did Juju classes and two friends I made from the class couldn't get their DHs to read the book either.

Sigh. Men really ARE from Mars, aren't they? It's not that they aren't totally committed, they are just DIFFERENT! I'd love to know if mums to be with female partners have the same issue? Somehow I doubt it!

Berenice this thread may end up being a good advertisement for doulas, methinks!

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

LOL, thats why I think Doula's are getting more popular - as loving as most partners are, they just don't generally 'connect' until after labour, do they? And while I definitely agree with the Men are from Mars mentality, I think I would push harder for my DH to get into it. Because, at the end of the day, its something that is SO important to the woman, I feel that the least the partner can do is be on the same wavelength, KWIM?

I would hate to have a birthing experience that deliberately excluded my husband, but at the same time, I don't wanna be undermined because he couldn't be bothered doing the reading ITMS...

*Star* - thats exactly why I started the thread, you're not going off on a tangent!

[mummato1]

Then I bought him Birth Skills (JuJu Sundin) and thought it had pictures and summaries so he could skim......it's still on the bedside table.

When I had it out with him in a hormonal rage the other day he simply said "I am just not interested - sorry!"

Same here!!!!

I have discussed using a doula next time around and I think he was quite offended until I explained why. I want DP to be there of course but having had a c-sect the first time round I know I will need a lot more emotional support etc to try for a VBAC.

[human bean]

Great question! My DH has not done any reading, and I haven't even tried to get him to because I know he wont! But we talk alot and I've gone over alot with him, and we're both coming from the same angle in regards to the birth we want. We have just written our birth plan together, and whilst he dragged his heels a bit to start he really got into the antenatal classes (which were fantastic and very all for natural active birth) and the active birth workshop we did.

However we do have a back up - our lovely doula! He knows that I wanted a doula as much for me as for him, and that's how we've looked at it from day one. Not long ago he mentioned he's feeling a lot more confident that he/we will have her as support as well in case he just isn't sure what to do or what's going on.

So nope he's not as informed as me, but I feel he's been really 'included' if that makes sense, and I'm glad he's feeling more confident as we get closer and closer.

[AliB]

Well! When DP got home from work last night I told him about this thread ... he went very quiet and after dinner we had an argument about it and other things. He feels that because he does soooo much for me (which he does, you would NOT believe it, he really does do the vast majority of indoor and outdoor house work, food shopping and lately all the cooking and washing up, and is an awesome handyman and has done so much to prepare for bub's arrival) - that he was showing how devoted he was which meant he didn't need to read the birth book/s. Blokes aye? He also told me about some of his gripes and concerns so it was very interesting.

Anyway it was a great chance for us to have a vent and a cry and a cuddle about being on the precipice (sp?) of a new life together as a family.

We ended up cuddled up in bed soon after, reading Birth Skills together

[Mummato2]

Well! When DP got home from work last night I told him about this thread ... he went very quiet and after dinner we had an argument about it and other things. He feels that because he does soooo much for me (which he does, you would NOT believe it, he really does do the vast majority of indoor and outdoor house work, food shopping and lately all the cooking and washing up, and is an awesome handyman and has done so much to prepare for bub's arrival) - that he was showing how devoted he was which meant he didn't need to read the birth book/s. Blokes aye? He also told me about some of his gripes and concerns so it was very interesting.

Anyway it was a great chance for us to have a vent and a cry and a cuddle about being on the precipice (sp?) of a new life together as a family.

We ended up cuddled up in bed soon after, reading Birth Skills together

Naaww - Your DH sounds like mine. He does so much around the house because I can't, deals with my toddler, makes sure he provides enough that I don't have to work unless I want to - but I slam him for not reading a book!

It's so nice that you guys worked through some stuff and he has FINALLY started reading the book.

I've had a day of pre-labour yesterday and it's started again today - so I might just suggest a nice cuddle in bed with the book - great idea!!!

COMPLETELY off the topic - I noticed that you are also a PCOS lady? How did you find your pregnancy? I stayed on Metformin throughout both my pregnancies and both times never got GD - in fact, the 4 losses we had was getting pregnant while NOT taking it!

Good luck sweetie - you and are aren't too far off our dates xxx

[AliB]

Thanks Mumma2 - yeah when they're nearly perfect, it sucks to have nag them about something!

[I'll PM you about the PCOS stuff so I don't TOTALLY hijack Berenice's very interesting thread!]

Hmmm I was just rereading Human Bean's comment : "We have just written our birth plan together" and a penny dropped...

During my 'discussion' with DP last night, when I was reminding him of all the prep, reading, and purchasing of dozens and dozens of baby related items that I've done (all of which required loads of research and thought - well that's my method!). He replied "Yeah well I feel a bit left out of the decision making there".

So, the problem might well be that I (and others) don't genuinely empower our DH's to learn and get involved. We say we do but true engagement requires us to involve the other person in the way they feel comfortable and that will empower them to learn and make decisions. We just think "well I research endlessly online, why doesn't he?". Or "I have read all the pregnancy books twice from cover the cover, can't he just read ONE?".

Yet, Human Bean's comment hit a chord with me. DP and I didn't write OUR birth plan TOGETHER. I wrote MY birth plan and presented him with a copy. Reflecting back, he did express interest in working on it together a few weeks earlier, but I couldn't get my arse into gear in the evenings to want to do so.

Gulp!

Very interesting.