Isn't it funny.... (i.e. so wrong...)

[BellyBelly]

... that once you are pregnant, you belong to the system. If there were anything else wrong with you, organ transplant needed, cancer etc... you have choice and options regarding your care and its respected. But soon as your pregnant, it's my way or the highway, and you are not so fortunate to have choice.

Religiously speaking, a JW can refuse treatment, blood tranfusion etc, but pregnant and you are a bloody idiot for not listening, or there is verbal abuse, no choice, bullying, and scare tactics. If you make a researched, educated decision you are a hippy or irresponsible. So wrong.

[Lulu]

Oh yes, if you were a cancer patient and decided to research alternative or complimentary therapies that would be fine.
If you are a women wishing to research alternative therapies/ways to birth your child - all of a sudden pregnancy and birth are LIFE THREATENING.....

[BellyBelly]

I am loving it that people are looking for alternative methods to help move their labours into action, we get loads of women trying for labour inductions in the centre... but their stories are making me so frustrated at the care they are getting!!! Lots come days, even a day, before they are being induced and you know its hardly any time, women need to think about starting it around week 36. Funny, never thought it would get to me!!! I always tell women, 'You know it's your choice don't you?' but the majority just say they have pushed for all the time they have. Frustrating.

[LaDeeDa]

Hi Girls,

I found this at the angliss FBC when I initially booked (just had a crappy midwife I think coz all the others have been great)
she gave me a massive verbal earbashing as DF and I decided not to have ANY tests for DS (Dan's brother has Downs) our deicison was that we wouldn't abort even if the baby did have a genetic abnormality so whats the point in testing for it????
Then when we went for our dating scan we got another ear bashing from the sonographer.....
It's amazing how everyone seems to know whats best for you and makes you that you know it

[BellyBelly]

Maybe because they do it because they know it works to make you feel guilty or irresponsible. Power trippers.

[Lulu]

Wow, you must have had the crappy one! I didn't even bother going to the doc till I was over 20 weeks (I KNOW when Im preg!), didn't bother with most of the tests and no one seemed to mind. I had the exact same reasons for you refusing those tests....

Seriously, there is one crap middy there - she gave my sister heaps too. The rest are great.

[LaDeeDa]

Hey Lulu - I think I found her ....LOL all the other ones's I've seen have been BRILLIANT!!!!

Kelly - I agree with you some of them are on a power trip, at the end of the day it's my baby and my choice

[Beach Mama]

I'm not sure I will verbalise this the way I need to so bear with me!
There is so much emotional baggage and guilt placed upon mums, right from when we fall pregnant to when these babies are born, and so much of it is for the care of our little ones.

With other illnesses and diseases we are making choices for ourselves esentially and that seems to be ok, but because during pregnancy we are making decisions for our babies too -it seems to be a different shift from teh medicos ie: oh your chioce will mean baby will be sick/threatened/at risk/stillborn etc.....(The amount of times I have heard the term "dead baby" during my VBAC journey is disgusting)
The thing is, who cares for these babies so much more than anyone else!?? US of course! One line I wished I had used with senseless obs at my last 2 appointments is "I think I love and care about this baby more than you do so I will be the one to make the decision in his best interest". The usual doubt/guilt etc does come in if you aren't sure about your decisions because you would think the experts know what they are talking about and you start doubting yourself and want the ultimate best for your baby and can end up feeling a bit powerless or confused.
Does that make sense?

[Butterfly_Princess]

The usual doubt/guilt etc does come in if you aren't sure about your decisions because you would think the experts know what they are talking about and you start doubting yourself and want the ultimate best for your baby and can end up feeling a bit powerless or confused.

Totally agree with that.

I have to admit, I had wonderful midwives, they never, ever, pushed me to do something I didnt want to do. The decisions I made I felt were respected and followed. Everything was explained to me perfectly, and I was happy. This actually surprised me, coz I was 18 when I gave birth, I thought they would have over looked me a little bit, being so young and "uninformed" (little did they know I was a member of a great, informative forum called BellyBelly).
The only issues I had was my after care and the fact I was out the hosp within 24 hours.

I do think its sickening that it seems a LOT of midwives, OB's, GP's etc are using scare tactics and pretty much making the decision for the mother, when really, mother knows best...I think all they are entitled to do is inform us of everything we need to know, so that WE can make our own decision. When things litereally become life-threatening, then its in their hands, but while things are still perfect and ok, then we should be able to do what WE choose to.

[LaDeeDa]

Hey Tan - you make perfect sense!

[tsgirl]

I agree completely that pregnant women are not afforded the respect & consideration they deserve when it comes to their health choices!

However, I have to disagree that this is a problem solely faced by expectant mums. The health system as a whole (particularly the public system) doesn't cope well with educated, motivated individuals. It is focussed on a paint by numbers approach that is designed for a 'best fit' outcome where as many individuals as possible can be pigeon holed with the same care. It is outrageous that patients are not treated with more respect, offered more choices, expected to be more responsible for their care. This is mostly about economy .. far more cost effective to offer a paternalistic system that gives 'most' patients 'adequate' care.

From personal experience your choices as a tx patient are zero. You're a number in the system and it takes a LOT of energy to demand individual care. There is NO private care available for tx ... which is a ridiculous waste of tax payers money, but that is a whole other argument.

If you chose to supplement your cancer treatments with natural therapies you will be patronised at best. Heaven forbid you choose alternative treatment exclusively, you better be ready for abuse on a grand scale.

Something as simple as choosing a vegetarian diet is enough to invite ridicule and judgement from many in the health system. And don't for a second think having researched your decisions and being armed with the science to back them up makes you immune.

Health in this country, including that available to pregnant women is following a frightening path. We are heading towards the US system of diagnosis & treatment determined by bean counters, not medical experts. The best chance we have of reversing this trend is to inform ourselves thoroughly and NOT be intimidated by members of the system who's best interests are served by quieting our protests. If you are not comfortable or satisfied with the health care you are receiving SPEAK OUT. Then put it in writing, to the professional & institution involved, to your family and friends, to your local member & to State & Federal Health Ministers. This country is witnessing a crisis in health that is appalling, but the most frightening thing about it is that much of the witness is silent.

Sorry .. long ramble, happens to be a topic close to my heart.

[Mumma2three]

I can't imagine Dr's would promote "alternate therapies" for cancer patients. I think we all have choices and part of the research is finding the right carers to let you make your own choices, whatever the situation. I don't really see pregnancy as the hard done by minority group.
I have never found (3rd pregnancy) that I have ever been pushed or swayed to do anything except what I want. Maybe Im lucky, but I dont' think so. Most of my friends have done things "their way". If I have not been happy with something, I go elsewhere. The only issue I've come up against is the hospital wanting me out within 24 hours, but that is more a financial issue. I just went somewhere else.

[BellyBelly]

Yeah well you all know what I mean, maybe cancer was a bad example as its seen as one of the most serious health problems around, but you know what I mean.

[Mumma2three]

Maybe Im just fortunate not to have had the bad experiences regarding women's choices. I hope this time is no different!! Wouldn't birth centres be a better option for women wanting more control? (and arent' they usually in all hospitals?)

[myson]

Tanstar, you are right in your comment about who the choices affect. That has a great impact on the decisions. And Doctors deciding that they always know what is best is a huge part of the problem IMO.

Kelly it interesting that you mentioned JW's and blood transfusions. I have had this discussion with my (previous) Doc in the past. He was ok with the fact that I will refuse a transfusion under ALL circumstances.(but not without a watertight legal medical disclaimer) But when I stated that my beliefs will also stand for my child he was once again the all powerful Doc and decision maker. He basically said if he thinks the child needs a transfusion for any reason (is a baby seriously at risk of bleeding to death from being born???) he will get a court order and take possession of my baby and treat it however he likes.

So it certainly seems that if a decision is going to affect your baby then you dont have the final say in it. When more than anyone else in the world, the mother is the one who wants what is best for her child.

ps. i got a new doc a week later...

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

HUGE RANT HERE!

Blood products. Do you know how hard and how long I had to argue to NOT have blood during my pregnancy? Sure, my iron's a bit low and I'm rhesus negative but I am NOT ILL and DO NOT need blood products! Is there anything in my blood to indicate I am killing my baby? You don't really want to test? Well I don't want your injection... oh, you'll test now after you and DH giving me an ear-bashing.

Then post-partum not only let in visitors but wait until one is there and demand I have an injection... no, I can't see my results, I can't know my baby's blood group, I'm having an injection.

THIS IS SOMEONE ELSE'S BLOOD! I don't want it! But no, you've got to have it. Even the JWs I know get someone trying to bully them about this in pregnancy. (For the record, I'm having my religion as JW if I'm ever in hospital for a pregnancy again to ensure that if this happens I can make the biggest stink in the world. At least that way no-one will raise an eyebrow if I tell them I'm reading my Bible during labour.)

Bloody awful system.

[myson]

I hear you rosehip. but claiming to be a JW might not work... there is some very specific paperwork that goes along with the claim of being a JW. Docs are wise to people trying it out for an easier time and are making sure its authentic.

BTW ... i may be wrong... and we are going a bit off topic here... but i thought there was a completely synthetic rhesus vaccine now...????? ....just one of those little things in the back of mind....not sure if im remembering correctly.??

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Not in the UK - I asked my local JW friends about this! Although I'm not one, they do recognise it's the easiest way to avoid blood products and would be fine with this claim, just so long as I am prepared to follow scripture at least whilst in hospital and thus not give them a bad name. (And, of course, it would be easier if I converted...)