just an little "unnecessary intervention" vent

[Lulu]

This was a vent thread about crappy advice. No obs bashing at all, in fact everyone has pointed that fact out.

Crappy advice has been given, it's ok to vent about that isn't it? I'm not sure what is 'brave' about offering a counter to a point that doesn't exist, in a venting thread. It's about as brave as going into the c/s support thread and banging on about the dangers of the theatre.

[Trillian]

I took the orginal vent as one of just a long line of misinformation kwim? And just more of a frustration at hearing the same old worn out myths over and over again. Not everyone does research the net or join a web forum to educate themselves. Many people will rely on the experiences of family and friends when making their own decisions about it and you just know that when you hear something like that said, that someone is going to take that as gospel simply because the person saying it was told that by a Dr .

[Roryrory]

yes, being told at 30 weeks that you'll need to be induced because you're likely to have a large baby again is a crock - however, we don't KNOW what the context of the conversation was. we dont KNOW how traumatic the initial birth was for the mother. was don't KNOW why the decision to induce early was made. yes, it's sad. but we don't KNOW and can't judge.

BG I agree with you here a little - my initial vent was very generalised and I tried to point out in a later post that there are often extenuating circumstances that need to be taken into account. But....

I took the orginal vent as one of just a long line of misinformation kwim? And just more of a frustration at hearing the same old worn out myths over and over again.

Trillian you hit the nail on the head. I was more having a general winge about how almost every pregnant woman or woman who has birthed who I talk to seems to say similar things. Like "I tore last time so this time I have having a c/s" or "my sister and mum had c/sections so I expect one myself" or "Last time I was administered an epidural right away because my baby was posterior". You have got to wonder how many women who have "extenuating circumstances" are in that situation because of a lack of info/awareness, rather than truly unusual or unavoidable medical complications.

So I guess my two cents after the last two pages of posts is - how many traumatic births where the women and babies are saved by intervention were actually precipitated by unwarranted intervention in the first place? Sadly, because so many women who endure birth trauma seem to only find solace in assurances from their doctors that they "would have both died" but for the intervention itself, I doubt we will ever truly know the answer to this question. Because if we look for the answer we risk going to places where many women dare not look (and by this I don't mean that we should be looking to blame women themselves!)

(And BG while I know you have bowed out of this post I do applaud your having put forward a different POV)

[Tegam]

So I guess my two cents after the last two pages of posts is - how many traumatic births where the women and babies are saved by intervention were actually precipitated by unwarranted intervention in the first place? Sadly, because so many women who endure birth trauma seem to only find solace in assurances from their doctors that they "would have both died" but for the intervention itself, I doubt we will ever truly know the answer to this question. Because if we look for the answer we risk going to places where many women dare not look (and by this I don't mean that we should be looking to blame women themselves!)

well said!



but does the answer lie in the fact that whilst intervention has sky rocketed in the past 20 years child and maternal death has stayed the same? if all this intervention was needed then wouldnt the rates have dropped????

[Patooties]

I will admit to having given BG rep points with regards to her posts. It's not that i wasn't brave enough to say anything, more that BG is able to voice her opinion, and one that I agree with, more eloquently than I. Thanks BG. I understood exactly where you are coming from.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I had VERY medicinalised care for DS - something that I didn't want, but DH pushed all the way. I didn't get a say because he DID decide what was going to happen to me - then wussed out when he saw what those evil people did to me. Not his fault. Oh no. He just didn't want me to give birth.

I had constant measurements - too big baby and too small bump. Told off for both.

I was even told off for being "too relaxed" - pregnancy is, of course, a state of stress and we all NEED to give ourselves pre-eclampsia: I'm sure the midwives would have raised my blood pressure if they could. Good thing I knew enough to ignore them.

Pregnancy, 99% of the time, is not an illness. There are times you need the doctor but in most pregnancies you could go from conception to birth all by yourself, without dates, without bullies, without being told what to do.

BG, you do have a pregnancy-related illness that is not in any way your fault. And you're doing the right thing discussing with your carers (you seem to be getting care, wonders never cease) what is going to happen that is the best thing for you and the baby. But I'll be honest, I got no discussion whatsoever.

As for "growing balls the second time around." What are you thinking? That I just lie there and say "chop me up without permission please?" That I didn't fight tooth and nail? Just shut up before I get really upset about that. Just because I now have a REASON not to tell DH about any pregnancy or labour doesn't mean I did the wrong thing by letting him know about Liebling. He needed a chance to fail, don't anyone dare tell me that I should ignore my child's father on a whim and not concrete evidence.

[Tegam]

1) Pregnancy, 99% of the time, is not an illness. There are times you need the doctor but in most pregnancies you could go from conception to birth all by yourself, without dates, without bullies, without being told what to do.


2) As for "growing balls the second time around." What are you thinking? That I just lie there and say "chop me up without permission please?" That I didn't fight tooth and nail? Just shut up before I get really upset about that.

i dont know how to multi quote....

1) here here

2)Are you telling yourself to stop talking by saying shut up or the rest of us in this thread?

also

Do you really believe that you couldnt get a better birth for yourself next time (if there was to be a next time)...Thats all i meant about women tending to have a more positive 2nd birth experience, that whilst you can fight tooth and nail the 1st time.....2nd time you know the system better to fight maybe not harder but more strategically? If the answer is no to that question than i guess that the system is stuffed and there is no hope in making it better for others........... That would be a really sad future for all ourselves, our sisters and daughters!

[berrme]

I was even told off for being "too relaxed" - pregnancy is, of course, a state of stress and we all NEED to give ourselves pre-eclampsia: I'm sure the midwives would have raised my blood pressure if they could. Good thing I knew enough to ignore them.

Would just like to point out that you don't give yourself pre-eclampsia. I was perfectly relaxed about my pregnancy until I got preeclampsia... that made me stressed.