What role does the father of baby have in the decision of where & how to birth?

[Cassius2]

mine is B. it is about creating a supportive, informed and empowering environment and if your partner is not comfy then IMHO it it cannot be any of those things.

that said, your partner feeling comfortable is not necessarily about reneging on your birth wishes but rather of showing your partner that your wishes are valid and informed ITMS.

anyway just my two cents...sorry cant linger...hungry baby!

[Cranky Kitten]

I was discussing this with DH this morning on the way to work - for us it's very much a D. His theory is along the lines of my body, our baby. I respect him and care about him enough to know that if he's not comfortable with something, that it's for a good reason and most probably because he's concerned for both me and bub. And if he's not comfortable in a situation, he's not going to be in the right headspace to be what I need which is that support and encouragement.

Mind you, the only thing thus far he's expressed he wouldn't be happy with would be a homebirth. He would be far more comfortable with the reassurance of having highly trained professionals close by (as in not a car/ambulance ride away) just in case something did go horribly wrong. So comfortable and happy with things like FBC and midwifery led care, if that had been what I wanted to do. Such as it is, I've decided to go with a private hospital birth with ob. Which he is completely fine with.

[Arcadia]

Just wanted to say that I had two highly trained professionals at both my births...midwives at homebirths are as trained as hospital midwives and carry lots of equipment. Birthing at home is different to unassisted birthing.

Truly I think men don't like the idea of Homebirth because they don't want to be responsible. They want to hand over the risk and I think that's fine. But a homebirth with midwives does hand over the risk and responsibility to others. It's almost like men imagine they'll have to take on some special role at a Homebirth (play doctor maybe?). They're just a husband, but supporting you at home not hospital.

Throughout this thread we have all said we respect our partners opinions etc, but are they truly respecting ours if they won't even consider an option? And to what extent is it our responsibility to educate them? If they truly want a say, then they should research and debate the options, or at least be open to information.

[Smoke Jaguar]

E. But then I have a DP who knows that my body knows how to do birth best and interference compromises good outcomes. So E, and not because I'm a dictatorial cow, but because he trusts the birthing process and how it has evolved over millenia. It's not a power thing, just a respect thing. It's the one time he is unconditionally supportive of me.

[HotI]

Throughout this thread we have all said we respect our partners opinions etc, but are they truly respecting ours if they won't even consider an option? And to what extent is it our responsibility to educate them? If they truly want a say, then they should research and debate the options, or at least be open to information.

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

As i said yesterday hun i think maybe you should BOTH write a pro's and con's list about BOTH options, homebirth and hospital birth.
Give them to each other to sit and read alone and then discuss or if he can't do that then maybe suggest he research both his and your fears and you do the same.
Make sure you list pro's for his suggestion too, there ARE pro's for both situations and con's for both, maybe opening up to each other about your fears and aspirations will help.

I do agree that he should be showing you respect by listening to your ideas and your fears but it's also to be returned, listen to his fears aswell and i know you said you don't really 'talk' about these things but if possible explain your fears, if you really needed to maybe ask him to look at some of the stuff you've written here and what bothers you.

[onthefly]

Well said Arcadia!

[Smoke Jaguar]

With me wanting a HB, DP's objection was cost. I told him that if he really didn't want to pay for it, I'd take out a personal loan, because he was not getting me into a car during labour if not medically necessary ever again. It WAS his only objection and we worked around it.
I really don't see why a father should get a say in how things are done, unless he is optimising a peaceful birth - prioritising the mother's values, not his own. His own values don't have a place in the birthing space - the baby is not coming out of HIS body, and if he is going to be a liability in the birthing space he needs to be somewhere else. Just because fathers are accepted into the birth space now, it doesn't mean they need to be there, especially if they think their terms must be accommodated.
I know my view is really unpopular,, but women's rights are not really evolved if we are expected to respect the father's wishes in birth. If you do then that's fine and up to you, if you are also getting everything YOU want from the birth. If anything you want is compromised by something the father doesn't agree with, then I have major ethical problems with that.
It wasn't the 'bad old days' when birthing was women only - birth worked out really well back then, considering hygiene practices were questionable and women's diets were crap (because men got the best food and no-one thought women had to be healthy to make more people).
It's YOUR body birthing - birth is YOUR way and if your partner isn't on board with that, then consider that you don't have to do it with the father present and he must EARN his place in the birthing space by being supportive. Seriously, birth CAN happen without your partner there
Deferring to someone else's wishes for birth is just so problematic. I did that the first time and acquiesced to the financial advantage of a birth centre. Never again. And it wasn't horrible or traumatic, is just didn't align with my values in the end and I know that if it had been up to me completely I would have birthed at home. The next time it WAS up to me, though DP wasn't aware that I had decided it would all happen on my terms - he thought we were still 'debating' homebirth, but my mind was made up. He cottoned on. He gave over to more overriding and powerful mammalian instincts!
The baby is coming out of YOUR body - birth needs to happen on YOUR terms and your partners are either going to realise they don't call the shots here or they're going to get a say in something most of them are really quite unqualified in. You don't ask your dentist for advice about where to service your car.

[loulabelle]

I'd say c. Although it might be different if dh was different itms. I want a homebirth this time around and he's very happy and comfortable with that. He knows it's going to be what is best for me emotionally and physically. He has also seen me give birth twice now and knows that my body is capable. It might be different if it was the first time, who knows. He understands that a midwife at home is no different from a midwife in the hospital. So, it's a shared decision for us.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk so forgive spelling mistakes

[Cranky Kitten]

Would you say the same though if the father's reasons for not being okay with a homebirth had nothing whatsoever to do with cost or even belief that births just happen at hospital because that's the way it's always done but everything to do with previous experiences of birth in his family? For example, my SIL wound up needing an emergency caesar with my nephew, without which both of them would not be with us today. DH knows that this is not a common or normal occurrence, he knows that the vast majority of birthing women do not require that level of intervention, but he doesn't want to take the chance of winding up in a situation where it becomes necessary and isn't readily and quickly available.

[Cassius2]

With me wanting a HB, DP's objection was cost. I told him that if he really didn't want to pay for it, I'd take out a personal loan, because he was not getting me into a car during labour if not medically necessary ever again. It WAS his only objection and we worked around it.
I really don't see why a father should get a say in how things are done, unless he is optimising a peaceful birth - prioritising the mother's values, not his own. His own values don't have a place in the birthing space - the baby is not coming out of HIS body, and if he is going to be a liability in the birthing space he needs to be somewhere else. Just because fathers are accepted into the birth space now, it doesn't mean they need to be there, especially if they think their terms must be accommodated.
I know my view is really unpopular,, but women's rights are not really evolved if we are expected to respect the father's wishes in birth. If you do then that's fine and up to you, if you are also getting everything YOU want from the birth. If anything you want is compromised by something the father doesn't agree with, then I have major ethical problems with that.
It wasn't the 'bad old days' when birthing was women only - birth worked out really well back then, considering hygiene practices were questionable and women's diets were crap (because men got the best food and no-one thought women had to be healthy to make more people).
It's YOUR body birthing - birth is YOUR way and if your partner isn't on board with that, then consider that you don't have to do it with the father present and he must EARN his place in the birthing space by being supportive. Seriously, birth CAN happen without your partner there
Deferring to someone else's wishes for birth is just so problematic. I did that the first time and acquiesced to the financial advantage of a birth centre. Never again. And it wasn't horrible or traumatic, is just didn't align with my values in the end and I know that if it had been up to me completely I would have birthed at home. The next time it WAS up to me, though DP wasn't aware that I had decided it would all happen on my terms - he thought we were still 'debating' homebirth, but my mind was made up. He cottoned on. He gave over to more overriding and powerful mammalian instincts!
The baby is coming out of YOUR body - birth needs to happen on YOUR terms and your partners are either going to realise they don't call the shots here or they're going to get a say in something most of them are really quite unqualified in. You don't ask your dentist for advice about where to service your car.

my only gripe with this is that it is not simply "fathers" anyone that is not there 100% shouldnt be there.

[Epacris]

A very interesting question and thread HotI. Thinking about this and reading the replies I unexpectedly feel like for me it’s an E (unexpectedly because I’ve never thought about it before and I guess I was expecting to be a D or a C, but now I really think about it I guess I am an E). I think I’m an E mostly because my DH the kind of bloke that is happy for pregnancy, birth and newborn babies to be women’s business. He trusts that I have researched all the options and made the best decision for me and for us as a family. And he’s just not really that interested in it, I mean, I’m really passionate about birth and babies but for him it’s just a function of being a family and not anything more than that. From this position if he then tried to tell me what to do I’m sure I wouldn’t be happy about it at all, but he doesn’t, so it’s all good. I also don’t need my DH at all when we’re at the pointy end of the proceedings. I need him to get me to my care givers and get me home again, but for the rest of it, if he just stands a few meters back and lets me do my thing, for me, that’s exactly the support I want.

[Trillian]

Mayaness, some women don't have the luxury of being able to have anyone else to support them, so often it is their DH by default. That is why they HAVE to be on board with what the woman wants and any problems need to be worked out. Someone said earlier 'your body, OUR baby' and I think that it is so relevant to the situation. Why shouldn't the father be able to say what he thinks about a situation that is involving his child? I know my DH would be incredibly ****ed off if I told him I didn't want him at the birth of his child simply because he disagreed on something I wanted. THat's a pretty negative thing that can impact the entire relationship. It's not really about women's rights, but it's about the relationship you have with your partner. Of course if the partner is placing his entire opinion and choices on the woman, then that's not cool at all, but why is it so hard to accept that some fathers might actually like to have a little input into the birth of his child? Why can't both people in the relationship work on it together? However I have always said that ultimately the choice lay with the mother because her bodily autonomy is of vital importance, but it doesn't mean that the father should have absolutely no input.

The baby is coming out of YOUR body - birth needs to happen on YOUR terms and your partners are either going to realise they don't call the shots here or they're going to get a say in something most of them are really quite unqualified in. You don't ask your dentist for advice about where to service your car.

I don't know why a man is always deemed to be unqualified in the process of birth simply because he doesn't own the vagina. When I was pg with my first baby we were BOTH totally clueless about the process of birth until we educated ourselves on it. If anything, he knew MORE about birth than I did because of his work with birthing livestock. You don't need to own a vagina to be able to be well read and educated about birth and be able to contribute equally to choices made. Women generally don't know much about the process of birth either until they need to. It's not something our brains come automatically wired with so we just have to think about it and we know all we need to know.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Trill, I said 'most men' for a reason, and not because I was referring to obstetricians
I'm not saying I go to DP and say "this is how it's going to happen and whatever you want I won't listen to because you don't own the vagina", I'm saying I tell DP how I want to birth and any input he has to facilitate such a thing can be considered and included. If he's not comfortable with something (and he hasn't been uncomfortable with anything) then I talk to him about why I want it and if he still isn't with the program, then he needs to seek an alternative arrangement for himself for the birth!
I had the 'luxury' of having a GF with us last time, and didn't have anyone but DP the first time. If he hadn't been on board with HypnoBirthing or waterbirth I would have sent him away and done it alone with the midwife (who was happy to be hands off anyway).
Cranky Kitten - I don't get the idea that birthing experiences are hereditary! I've heard his cited so many times, and there is really no evidence of there being hereditary birthing ability...apart from the ability to birth. If the father has issues about previous births in his family and is wanting his partner to have unnecessary medicalisation of the birth and she doesn't, then HE needs to debrief and and get educated. It's not fair on his partner to have to conform to a just-in-case. It is just not fair to rip her off that way if she wants something else for her birth. Education sorts this one out, anyway. Independent midwives see a lot more labours of all sorts and instead of looking up text books to hospy policies they call on their extensive experience to pick up on complications early enough to do a transfer for homebirths. These are done in such a timely manner, that most transfers don't end up in emerg C situations at all. I've known quite a few homebirth fathers who had these fears and allowed themselves to learn and listened to the wisdom and knowledge of good midwives and they are now very strong homebirth advocates. So, that's what I say to that
Cassius - I was just keeping to the OP about fathers, and I definitely agree, anyone who's not on the same wavelength needs to be outta there.

[meow]

So I asked my H about his thoughts on this. His first response was the "your body, our baby" line and he thinks fathers deserve a say in the birth process... only if the mother isn't responsible enough to make a good choice. We're talking pretty extreme. Like a drug addict who decides to free birth in the bush. He thinks Dad should be able to call it in for the sake of the baby. I'm unsure on that one still. I don't think a woman should ever be made to undergo any procedure she doesn't consent to.

We realised though that there is no real room for compromise in this choice. There are only two people voting. If multiple people were voting you could average the results but this way you're only going to get 100%-0% or 50%-50%. In the case of 50%-50% we agree the woman gets veto power, except if she's not usually the sort of mother who makes safe choices about her pregnancy/children, then he thinks the man should get veto.

[Trillian]

I get you now Mayaness We're on the same wavelength with this - afterall if someone isn't going to support you they are going to hinder you more than help.

[Arcadia]

From a feminist perspective, I think it is problematic to assume the power dynamics of a male/female relationship are ever 50/50. That is a very loaded statement I know, but on iPhone so can't explain further now...except to say society in general puts more weight on the opinion of men, even when it comes to birth (think of how male dominated obstetrics is)...so I think it's vital women get the majority of the say in her own birth. No one wants to put their life or baby's life at risk, so I think we should trust women to make the best decision for her and her baby.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Just remembered something (hey it was just over 5 years ago, give my memory a break!):
my compromise for the homebirth the first time (FBC in the end) was the HypnoBirthing. I would have done HB regardless, but DP didn't even want to pay for the Hypno course (he wasn't working at the time, but he had some other money tucked away). I told him that as I wasn't getting a homebirth I needed the HypnoBirthing as a kind of insurance for a peaceful birth, to align with how I saw myself giving birth. I told him that if he didn't pay for it I would ask my mum to pay for it. He knew it was what I wanted and I wasn't going to say "ok, I won't do it" just because he didn't think it would help or didn't think we could afford it. It was going to happen, no compromises. I'd compromised enough. I definitely credit my insistence on learning HypnoBirthing with two very peaceful births that allowed me to trust myself and my body to do the job it needed to do. Even if I'd ended up with interventions, HypnoBirthing was going to get me through with the best outcome for my emotional wellbeing.
So, yes, I've been to that negotiating table and pretty much told him what I wouldn't budge on and that if he wasn't on board, I'd leave him at the pier