From what I understand, Diva, (and this helped me enormously during labour and birth), it *may* not be a problem, because it is (normally!) impossible for endorphins to fire at the same time as adrenaline, it's an either/or. My neuroscience books never mentioned exceptions to the rule, so take heart in that!
That's why breathing is so important - and not shallow TV breathing, either. Nice, big, deep breaths that make you feel nice...cos once you're feeling nice you KNOW that it is the endorphins responsible and you know that the adrenaline is hiding until it is required to come to play right at the very end of the process (essentially, expulsion of that baby).
Anyway, the HB post by Yogababy will elucidate this further, I'm sure.
Rule of thumb - if you feel good/relaxed/'zen', there is no adrenaline, because they don't fire at the same time
Mayaness - Thanks for that ... I'm the queen of deep breathing cycles, it's a surefire way to get a panic attack under control ... but I wouldn't hold your breath on me not doing the impossible ... I'm the queen of that too ....
Infact I'm staring at the fridge that has my FS's report saying I have 0% chance of natural conception ... right next to our 9w6d u/s ....
everyone works at different levels at every stage of life...pregnancy just being one of them...your body adjusts to the level of hormones that is 'average' for you and works from there....this is why so many women find HypnoBirthing a wonderful too, because you personalise it for your needs, and it becomes an unconcious response (with practice of course)...and we do need adrenaline...Ive got loads of it to diva, but have learnt to use it in a positive fashion
when I do post the HypnoBirthing blurb, just so you know that I teach form a practitioners perspective (BirthSkills) and a personal perspective...and having used the BirthSkills I still did suffer AND and PND with my 2nd pregnancy but it was so much easier to work through it all...so I really do understand
what's coming up next?!?!?!? natural pain relief? i need this as my ob asked me if i'm not going to use an epidural then what am i going to use instead?
Diva, I just wanted to clarify something:
Adrenaline pumps when the parasympathetic nervous system is working - that's your fight or flight response. Certain body functions go into a 'freeze', diverting blood flow to only the vital organs so that you can theoretically 'flee' the danger that you're telling your body you are in. Yogababy mentioned this in her post about hormones, I'm just going over it in terms of the parasympathetic nervous system and the function it performs.
Endorphins are released within the sympathetic nervous system, and because the parasympathetic and sympathetic never operate simultaneously, never the twain ought to meet, so to speak. The sympathetic nervous system gets your digestion going, blood flowing etc.
During sex and childbirth (funny how they're related, but pregnant women are not allowed to be sexy!!) both systems do a little dance where they take it in turns to work. It's endorphins for most of it, then right at the end (orgasm and baby expulsion) adrenaline kicks in to finish off the job. And you don't need to work on getting the adrenaline working, it will happen by itself if there's no drug intervention (same for endorphins - drugs interfere with their production by replacing them, it's like sending in drones so that the real thing has no job anymore cos the drones take over). The endorphins, in an age where childbirth stories are riddled with fear and horror messages, need a bit more coaxing and training to come out - hence CalmBirthing and HypnoBirthing and preggy yoga practice etc!
I just thought I'd give you a bigger picture of the adrenaline an endorphin exchange, so that you can have more faith that no matter how big that gland, it can't hurt you while endorphins are playing...kind of like sharks won't hang around where dolphins are, if that helps!
Geez, second year psych has really come in handy!
so I have talked about the uterus, the importance of hormones, the outline of labor and birth and why we feel pain...now natural pain relief
again Kelly has a few different articles for further info
Natural methods of pain relief on a number of factors
1. gate control theory...I have already put this in the thread (somewhere)...but basically you can shut the 'gate' to the cervix nerve impulses in the spinal cord (before they reach the brain and are interpretted as a painful or intense senstation) by stimulating other nerve impulses that flood the 'gate'...these nerve impulses can be triggered by light touch/massage/counter pressure to the skin...in particular the lower back/sacrum...TENS (Kelly has info in the articles)
2. endorphin release...our wonderful natural pain relief...is encouraged by feelings of safety, security, calm etc...so familiar smells (aromatherapy), sounds (music) and regular relaxed breathing (just simple in and out...no holding the breath or tensing the breath)
3. distraction...flooding the brain with other sensory stimulation to process...vocalising/chanting (which also encourages great breathing), rhythmic patting (not 'smacking' your partner on a surface or rocking (pelvic rock), again music, key words that your support person uses to help refocus you during a contraction
I will pop this up...and write one on HypnoBirthing now
HypnoBirthing (im talking in particular about BirthSkills) is a method of learning to relax the conscious mind and release fears surrounding childbirth/pregnancy/mothering, to allow you to work with your body to birth your beautiful baby.
It is sooooo very important to choose and empowered support team...fearless, supportive, encouraging, nurturing...
HypnoBirthing is a different expereince for every woman...every birth. For some it may mean no pain...others it will mean an intense experience but no fear...birth is very personal, and to expect the same result with every labor and birth would not be realistic
Natural methods of pain relief work in conjunction with a calm and relaxed mother, a supportive and nurturing support team/partner and a caregiver who will simply sit and observe, wait and listen, guide and encourage
i hope this helps...please feel free to ask any questions...and thanks for showing interest, I really enjoyed writing up these posts
Can't tell you how freaky that is, yogababy - just as I read your post I was listening to an online lecture...about gate control theory!
Got a wriggly kid who is NOT helping me write an essay...
Thanks for all this wonderful information yogababy and mayaness, it's quite hard sometimes to get an objective view of a whole range of things when you're living with disabilities, thank you for helping me stay positive ...
I have two illnesses GAD, and a personality disorder ... (just to tease Mayaness, it's the rarest one , wonder if she can guess) ... so because my brain isn't wired the way everyone elses is, it sometimes throws up little pickadillioes that need dealing with in a special way.
I have never taken drugs for either one, I'm certainly not against them, but I feel that they are a "bandaid solution" for my own problems and instead have slogged through 4yrs of pyschotherapy (so sorry Mayaness again, you're unknowingly teaching someone to "suck eggs" )
So I'd be very interested in hearing all about Hypnotherapy, no doubt I've used some of the techniques in a different guise (I lurve distraction therapy in all it's forms) ... and I suppose I want to hear more about it to make sure that if we did go down that road it's the right "key" to unlock the complicated and messy lock that is my brain ... ...
Phew! Why do I now feel like I've been on the Dr Phil show??? Or perhaps Jerry Springer???
In THAT case, Diva, you've got the theory already, so I reckon your pesky adrenal gland can still be quieted with a goodly dose of practice with breathing and visualisation techniques!
Also, have you tried Emotional Freedom Technique? It works on your meridians whilst you unblock inhibitions and fears - worked for me Granted, I didn't have any condition that could be found in the DSM IV...that I know of...
(ETA: what I have posted thus far is paraphrasing what I learned and put into practice from my HypnoBirthing classes in April last year...and have since been confirmed by my study in my Grad Dip since I returned to school )
speaking of which, I'll get my hands on that diagnostic manual and see if I can find which disorder you have been diagnosed with!!
Hijacking thread now, will stop, sorry!
Last edited by Smoke Jaguar; August 27th, 2007 at 11:39 PM.
yogababy- my ob was telling me about the TENS machine, but then she said you can't use them and use water- i'm a big shower person so decided this wasn't a great idea. do you think TENS is really helpful?
I have not personally used the TENS machine...but you can't use it in the shower or bath
it does require practice, as with anything, but women who have used do find it very effective...it works on the same principles of massage and counterpressure (which can be used in the bath and shower ) and the gate control theory
Have you thought about HypnoBirthing as an option?
yogababy: I'd like to be the first to buy that book as soon as its published, or sooner!
I especially like the explanation of how the uterus works, and why we feel pain.
I don't know whats its called, but when I feel pain (which is regularly as I am quite clumsy... my specialty - picking up pans that have just come out of the oven with my bare hands... actually off-topic but anyway, I managed to chip my forearm bon in the toilet while pulling my pants up... lol, did that give you alla giggle?!?! Its funny now, but not really at the time!!!), I shut my eyes and imagine that it is not pain, and I just breath through it until it stops being pain. Is that something you can do in labour? I'm guessing it is, but wondering, does it have a name?
Actually, funny thing, I use music cues on a day to day basis. Usually it is because I am at uni, and get very nervous before an exam, or find it hard to concentreate if I have an assignment due, I listen to music in a relaxing place first, like in bed or in the bath, and train myself to relax when I hear the music, and then I take my iPod and before the exam, or while I am studying, I listen to the songs. I even sing them to myself in my head during the exam. I also take big breaths and imagine I'm breathing all the tension out. Works a treat!!!!!
I have told Shel that this is what I will be doing - music cues to help relaxation. But I thought it was jsut something I had made up, and that it probably wouldn't work! Thanks for all this info, its really great.
I feel so confident that I can have a natural, intervention-free, drug-free birth (when I actually get pregnant and up to the stage of actually giving birth!!!), even if people around me seem to think otherwise!
Last edited by Indadhanu; August 29th, 2007 at 01:18 PM.
Here are some simple breathing exercises that you can practise for labor and birth
1. relaxation breathing
take a full breath in, and relax the breath out...visualise relaxing the body, softening the face
this type of breathing is great for early stage of labor, calming and focusing...and is also excellent for any time when you are feeling a bit overwhelmed (such as the first few weeks as a new mummy )
2. controlled breathing
this helps during a contraction...visualise the contraction as a wave that you need to float up and over, breathing steadily and calmly with the wave as it rises to its peak and then allow the breath to relax as you move down the otherside of the wave
labor is like a hill...take it one step at a time, work with your body, maximise the work of your breathing to facilitate oxygen intake and hormone release
3. birth breathing
fouses on releasing your pelvic floors
practise on the toilet...as you can then really let the pelvic floor relax
with an exhalation, gently bring the lips together and slowly release the breath as you would blowing on an imaginary feather...as you do this focus on relaxing the pelvic floor, releasing tension.
this helps not only create pelvic floor awareness, which helps promote pelvic floor tone, but also facilitates the 2nd stage...delivery of your baby
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You'll make it do-able!
on a surface or rocking (pelvic rock), again music, key words that your support person uses to help refocus you during a contraction
)
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