Here is my submission as it still isn't yet online, there seems to be much backlog. As I mentioned it was rushed but I just wanted to get something in, so it isn't my most well-edited piece!
Conflicting advice after birth
Interventions at birth
Lack of continuity of care
Accessibility of artificial milk
Marketing of artificial milk
Lack of education
Health professional influence e.g. MCHN, Paed
Family &/ friends ideals/advice/expectation
Going back to work with lack of bf support
Lack of availablility/affordability of support
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Here is my submission as it still isn't yet online, there seems to be much backlog. As I mentioned it was rushed but I just wanted to get something in, so it isn't my most well-edited piece!
Kelly xx
Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
Registered User
I dont think a booklet would help... how many booklets and leaflets did you get when you first had baby? or got pregnant... it is overwealming and goes in a bag until baby is 6 weeks old and you have a chance to take a breath... by this time if you were going to "give up" breast feeding it would have happened by now.
In your face on telly..... get rid of all the freakin knife ads and put something on tv when the new mums are up feeding or trying to feed???
at home education.... a visit from a nurse no matter what week two when maybe it is 'not too late' to help
Registered User
I picked Lack of education,figuring that could cover all bases when it comes to breastfeeding and the promotion of it.
I was lucky enough to have a fantastic experience with breastfeeding my daughter(not without it's ups and downs of course)and was glad she was a self-weaner at 19months old because i wasn't exactly sure how i was going to stop breastfeeding.
I am a larger women,so of course,having larger breasts made it a challenge to begin with,until i figured out a rolled up towel under the boobs made for great support and allowed our daughter to feed more comfortably.
A shame the nurses felt free to voice their personal comments about a 'fat chick' trying to feed her baby,all along with trying various positions to put my daughter and boobs in.
Already feeling bad enough after having an emergency c-section and a newborn(and 1st baby)to look after,everything aching,boobs so sensitive(and extremely sore when milk come in 3 days after the birth)..did they really wonder why i just burst out crying and said don't worry about it,i'll figure it out myself.
Which we did,just my daughter and i..and from then on,was nothing but a pleasure to be able to breastfeed successfully for her first 19 months.
They(some of the nurses)were just as horrible and nasty to the new mum in the bed next to mine.
Not that anyone should ever have to explain themselves,but before she got pregnant,she had suffered from breast cancer(and recovered)and was told that she would probably never have kids due to all the treatment etc.
Miracles,she did fall pregnant with her daughter,but because of the breast cancer and surgery etc her only option was to bottlefed.
Of course,bottlefeeding was a crime punishable by death to the nurses,and not taking the time to find out why she couldn't and didnt want to breastfed,didnt help her with bottlefeeding her baby..who i guess was probably near starving..till about 2 days after the birth.
I think one of her boobs was producing milk a little bit,so at least the baby had a little something,but to be so horrible and nasty and force the women in near tears to tell her story again about the breast cancer before they 'caved in' and helped her with the bottlefeeding and formula..just cant be right either.
Non matter if it's your 1st baby or 10th,each birth still has to be a 'shock' to the system,and a time when you can hardly think straight,and basically,just at your worst,no matter how joyous you are at finally having your baby.
All support and help should be given,no matter what your choice is.
At the end of the day,as long as each and every baby is happy and healthy,that's what matters.
I also feel that breastfeeding should be promoted just the same as formulas are.
There still seems to be this stigma of boobs only being needed for sexual pleasure(or objects)when their real primary function is to be able to breastfeed any children we have.
Once society can look at a mum breastfeeding out in public without staring and having nasty hurtful comments thrown at her,or for a guy to walk into a parents room where a mum is feeding her baby in private and grope her breasts..then we might be getting somewhere..
Now with #2 on the way,i once again cant wait to be able to breastfeed!!
All from a 70's premmie baby who was bottlefed.
Perhaps teaching and letting mums know to trust in their instincts when it comes in looking after their babies would help too.
I had never held a baby until i held my daughter,had nothing to do with other babies or kids when growing up,and had only ever mostly seen babies being bottlefed when out and about..i think it was a great surprise,and so rewarding to realise that i could actually breastfeed successfully,and i can only hope that the skill will be passed onto my daughter,and that my son in the future will support his wife in breastfeeding
I think the more kids/people exposed to mother breastfeeding their kids where ever and when ever can only be a good thing..cause once it's seen as 'normal'(which it is of course..)and routine..sooner or later,there has to come a time where nobody will even blink and eyelid at seeing mothers breastfeed..the same as if a baby is being bottlefed.
Last edited by Clearbrite; May 24th, 2007 at 11:27 AM. : fixed a few typos
Registered User
Brilliant submission Kelly.
I was fortunate enough to attend the hearing the committee had in Cairns. It was very informative (both good and bad in some ways) and all the members of the public got to say their 2 cents worth at the end. At that time the committee had received over 350 submissions and despite the feb 28th Deadline they were still accepting submissions. they admitted that when they started this inquiry they beleived it would be quick easy and over in 6 mths, they expected about 100 submissions. hehehe they got a big shock I think!!! I was lucky I was able to get mine in early and has been up for a while now. I'm still trying to read through the rest-I'm up to 277.
Oh and completely agree with Cailin.
In Innisfail a breastfeeding counsellor started a program where she talked with all expectant mothers about BF-after a while no more funding so it had to be stopped. Some refused to see her, some came to groups and some rang when they needed help. What has been a bigger success has been the Breastfeeding Education Classes where people pay $70 and get a membership, a book and undertake a class (about 1/2 day I think) learning about BF. This should be something the government can do. Make private health funds pay for their members to do this course, fund low income and at risk groups to do the course and for everyone else make it a tax deduction if they do it.
With Gemma is was lack of support from health professionals who told me it should come naturally and had me sobbing one night.
With jasmine she had problems sucking and latching on so lack of support again to help me with teaching Jasmine how to latch on properly. The Midwive tried to help me but after a couple of hours on and off of Jasmine crying she told me to just ff.
Registered User
Caro, it's on page 9
Kelly, I read it and I think it's very effective. I'm also pleased that they would like a copy of this thread - it will be like listening to a conversation of women who are disappointed, confused, surprised, encouraging...all the things they need to hear to know how far-reaching are the implications of allowing breastfeeding to become a lost art.
Life Subscriber
After reading more of these posts, I am changing my vote. Yes, lack of education and conflicting advice and lack of continuity of care and availability of artificial milk etc all play a huge part. But the fundamental problem is our culture. Most people in our circle of friends, playgroup etc will ff (at least by 6 months anyway). Most of the babies we see being fed on TV, elsewhere in the media and in real life are given a bottle. Most of us that do bf feel uncomfortable to do so in public so we hide away in feeding rooms or try to avoid feeding outside the home. And this just contributes to the problem. Also, the symbol for a feeding room is usually a bottle. And when you look at the baby section at any pharmacy or supermarket, what is the largest and most noticeable item - formula tins! Just try finding bulk packs of breast pads, reusable breast pads or breast milk bags. Believe me, I know how hard that is. A new pharmacy opened near me a couple of weeks ago and when I checked it out, it had all those items. I bought some and congratulated the pharmicist for stocking bfing friendly items. Another lady at the counter then said, "yes, thank you for saying something. I have so much trouble finding the breast pads I use". I felt so good to know that it's not just me that thinks shops are against me bfing. Others out there are having the same experiences as me, traipsing from one pharmacy to another until we find one thing we want at one and one thing at another. Pity I don't use formula - I could get a choice of 10 brands at any shop I walk into. Well, this new pharmacy is going to get a lot of my business.
I also make a concious effort not to contribute to the problem. After initially feeling very uncomfortable about feeding around people, now I do it quite freely. If a feeding room isn't convenient when I'm out, I'll sit anywhere. One day I sat on the floor in the supermarket to feed Jack and a staff member brought me a chair. I also talk quite openly about extended feeding and how disappointed I was that Jack self-weaned before he was two. I ignore the "looks" I get and talk about how it's recommended by WHO etc. Maybe I can make just a small amount of difference. After all, it's not that long ago that my friend was feeding her daughter who was nearly 2 and I thought that it was weird. Amazing how some education has completely changed my mind on that!
Now, how to change the minds of the rest of the world?!?!
Registered User
I love the suggestion of all mothers being given a free 12 month subscription to ABA!
I have had to go to the FMAU a couple of times already(and have to go again tomorrow!)
FMAU=Fetal Monitoring Assessment Unit. Over 4 hours they take your blood pressure average,take some blood and get out on the baby monitor for their heartbeat/movements just to make sure everything is AOK
Anyhow,the ABA is offering a breastfeeding class over a weekend for 1st time mums(well,i guess any mum really)to learn about breastfeeding,what to expect etc..all for $95!
Of course that includes a years membership.
That's all fine and well,anything to promote and help out with mums breastfeeding is only a great thing..but to be 'suckered in' to paying for something that somes free and naturally..i dont know..kinda runs me the wrong way.
I think ABA should give(or offer)a years membership to all mums(no matter what number child)for free,then only if you decide to stay for longer then that year do you pay a membership fee(im sure they need financial help too to keep things going)
We,as Australians can get most medical things(and especially when having a baby)for free on Medicare..so why not also have membership to ABA on Medicare too if a mother chooses too?
Sounds great to me!
Registered User
Hi Clearbrite, just wanted to re-iterate what IK mentioned - ABA is a not for profit organisation that receives no subsidies (that I am currently aware of). All Breastfeeding counsellors and Community Educators are volunteers, we give up our own weekends for training, nights for meeting planning, time off from paid work to make hospital visits (luckily I have a very understanding boss!), but our organisation desperately needs these funds. When planning a seminar - be it breastfeeding education, or mother's returning to work, we do carefully plan costs of hall hire, tea and coffee and nibblies and the literature handed out as well as hoping to be able to contribute a small amount back to the organisation for advertising etc. It is a difficult balance to strike - but the more people who support ABA, donate, join membership and come to our seminars, the more we are able to moderate pricing! So please talk to your local group if pricing is an issue, but promote as many people as possible to join the organisation or even better - promote government subsidies for ABA!!!
Registered User
Clearbrite that was a very moving post, I sat here with my mouth open imagining the nurses treating you and this other poor women that way how appauling.
I am a big breasted women too and I found that to make it even harder for me as my breast was bigger than my babies head, and yes having the roled towel helped so so much.
Alphia I think you touched on something very important about the main rasons as to why some women choose not to breast feed, I wanted to feed but it felt 'wrong' to me and I didnt like doing it at all, and what you said about women not accepting thier bodies in that way is very true, I think at the time I was feeling that breasts were infact sexual and I was confused about what I was doing and was it the 'right' thing for me to be doing, I have matured alot over the past 6 years and feel more at peace with my body and its real functions and I now trust in my body too, and I also agree that I think this is because people dont see breast feeding as important as it actually is, I think its very important that we start to make the public aware that breast feeding is very natural more so than formular feeding, so that we as women can feel comfortable, and not judged, I have heard so many women here on BB over the time I have been here saying how someone said this or they were asked to keave a restraunt etc I think that is utterly appauling and that just makes it more about breasts being sexual when it has nothing to do with sex at all, and that is a lack of understnding and education of the people around us.
Registered User
Clearbrite, the ABA is a not for profit organisation that runs off its subscriptions and donations and every once in a while, a government grant. It needs to be a government initiative to fund free memberships for the first year. Until then, it is the perfect baby shower gift. If the ABA were to become a government body it would be compromised and lose its independence. All that wonderful research would have a government agenda.
I Breastfed for 10 months and my milk supply got so low that I couldn't keep going.
I saw a few different lactation consultants and whilst they were all very lovely and full of advise they were sooooo pro breastfeeding that they didn't think about how I felt.
Until I meet Diane, she too was a pro breastfeeding advocate (and lactation consultant) but one of the first things she said to me was: don't worry darling if we can't get you feeling like your getting somewhere today we swap to the bottle and you're bub will be fine and you'll be happy and much less stressed.
This happend when my Daughter was about 10 days old. If it wasn't for her considering my feelings, I think I would have been too stressed to continue trying. But luckily for my beautiful Daughter this made all the difference. I was able to relax a little more and things started to get better.
Sometimes the "Probreast" (don't get me wrong, I'm "probreast") consultants would have a lot more success keeping people trying if they relaxed the message a little.
Regards,
Mum of Charlotte and one on the way (I hope to breastfed again. Maybe even longer this time)
Life Subscriber
I was thinking about this last night, about how lack of education is such a key factor, and what sort of things it would help to educate people about. Certainly I believe all health professionals need further education in the benefits and difficulties of breastfeeding, but in terms of educating the general public, and in particular girls/women of childbearing age/expectant mums, the following are the things that in my experience and those of my friends that would really help:
- How great the benefits are, that it's not just immunity that bf bubs get, but also thinks like better eyesight, jaw development, lower rates of leukemia etc
- How the benefits can really affect you in day to day life - eg in 12 months times when your child is around other children at day care, playgroup etc, how wonderful it is that they rarely get the bugs that so many of the other kids get regularly - my son is over 2, has been attending day care since 7 months and has never had an ear infection or gastro, despite being exposed lots of times
- That initial attachement can be, and often is, difficult for a variety of reasons - large breasts, tired bub, flat nipples, tongue-tie etc etc etc. How this does get much easier over time as the bub gets bigger and more experienced, and some ways of dealing with it - different holds, bfing pillows, nipple shields etc etc, also that resources like lc and ABA are out there and can make a huge difference.
- That most of us worry about not having enough milk, even when we actually have too much. That we should trust our bodies more, that frequent sucking causes more milk production and that inability to produce enough milk is actually very uncommon. That the growth charts in the health books are based on ff bubs. And that supplementing with formula can hinder instead of help, as it affects the supply/demand cycle. Again that the ABA and lc are available for help
THere are many other things, but I think those are the things that would be most helpful to most people. Also the ABA 24 hour help line should be more widely publicised. In the QLD health book it simply says "ABA" not what it is for etc.
BellyBelly Member
Just some random thoughts on the education aspect you mentioned Kelly.
*There needs to be a uniform, centralised means of advising pregnant women of the resources available to them if they run into problems breastfeeding. This should be as far as it goes with pregnant women because for the most part everyone thinks they won't have problems and everything will be fine for them - so it all goes in one ear and out the other anyway (a bit like the c/section information at antenatal classes). Women should not be scratching around the phonebook with a screaming baby that hasn't slept for two days trying to find where "Lactation Consultant" is listed in the yellow pages as I had to
*The ABA needs to get more realistic with it's education. It needs to acknowledge to women that while breastfeeding is a natural function, it's almost never easy at first. They need to acknowledge that sometimes it hurts like hell. That sometimes you will go days without sleep because the baby won't take a bottle of ebm so no one else can feed him. They need to acknowledge that while in a perfect world mum's could feed without discrimination in public, every breastfeeding mother can tell you a horror story of at least one thing that's happened to her when she DARED to get her boob out at the local shopping centre. I could go on here but you know what I mean. Let's talk about the realities and how to cope with them, rather that fluffing on about how "wonderful" breastfeeding is. Yes it is wonderful, but for many mums it is not at first and no wonder they feel ripped off, or like there must be something wrong when all they hear is this fluffy b/s from the only support organisation that they can access for free.
I think the ABA does good work for the most part but in all my dealings with them I felt they really minimised my issues by talking to me in terms like I've described above.
*When we talk about breast milk being the best thing for baby, we imply the artificial milk is the norm and breastmilk is "a step up from that". This makes artificial milk a more palatable substitute. When we really look at it, breastmilk is the norm, which makes anything less than that a poorer substitute. I think there really needs to be more of a focus on the "human milk for human babies" aspect, that shows that breastmilk is the NORMAL thing to be feeding babies, not that it's some holy grail that only some women can produce in satisfactory quality and quantity. The language needs to change, they're coming at this the wrong way I think.
Registered User
Kelly - I'm more than happy for you to use anything I said here; good on you for presenting to Parliament, sounds fantastic, can you let us know how it goes?
A key thing to me personally that I would want to reiterate is that its important for nurses and others involved in the week after birth to layer on the positive reinforcement, helping mums feel proud of their breastfeeding accomplishments. I felt even a tiny amount of criticism of breastfeeding success in the first week could be detrimental as you are so exhausted and emotionally vulnerable that it makes you feel like a failure to be told you're not doing it right.
Registered User
Kelly feel free to use anything I have posted if its helpful.
On the ABA memberships, when I had DS in 2005, one of the coucils near me - I think it was Hobsens Bay but not sure - was subsidising ABA memberships for people inthier council area. I think this was a fantastic initiative. I am not sure whether it continued and what the take up rate was.
Breastfeeding. Something I was extremely well educated about. Something that I longed to do for my baby; who I had wanted for soooo long. I breastfed for 36 hours.
But after not sleeping a wink, that second night my daughter and I spent together, after being told by a midwife that I needed to 'just breastfeed her 45 minutes each side (again)' and then she'd stop screaming... I decided the breastfeeding world and I were not compatible. I might add that this midwife told me to buzz (after trying for an hour and a half with my baby's eyes and my eyes closed from fatigue) but there was no way in heaven and earth I would trust my precious bundle in that midwife's care.
Yes I wanted to breastfeed, and I had no nipple issues etc. But when mother and baby are overtired, what is wrong with one bottle to get them over the hurdle???
Real quick and real smart I decided bottle was best (at least I could feed my hungry baby) and wouldn't it be abuse not to? Women who force their babies to breastfeed (for the so called nutritional benefits) need to think about the long term effect of depriving their child of food and what effect this has on their personality. Also, I knew what formula to give my baby (because I'd also researched this) one with LCP's - which I might add - How many breastfeeding mother's include a good source of Omega 3's in their diet such as sardines etc? Because if they don't do this, perhaps their baby would be better on formula? Perhaps breast is not best if the mother is overtired, has no time to eat properly (remember that includes the sardines!!) and the baby is screaming to be fed.
My baby has never gone hungry, is not overweight and meets all the nutritional requirements she needs. She has been formula fed from 36 hours old. If breasfeeding works for you, have fun with it. But don't make new Mum's feel bad if they tried and it didn't work. More education is not the issue (don't you think it's in your face and suffocating enough??) but 'informed' midwife support and more lactation consultants are needed 24 X 7.
Luvabub
Luvabub
Registered User
I agree with you on the point of not making formular feeding mums feel bad, I had alot of this when I stopped feeding both of my children but it was mainly from the SIL from hell LOL, I also agree that Breast feeding can be an in your face thing, but having said that I do think that this and education are very different, I think that yes when I had my DS I was not given the oppurtunity to even say 'hmm maybe I will just formular feed' I just had no choice or it felt that way for me anyway, but I also had no education, no one to sit with me and show me how to attach him properly no information, nothing at all, I think the aim of the advertising needs to be to make public more accepting of BF and not so shamed about it, I dont think it needs to be there to make formular feeders feel terrible about their decissions, as I dont feel thats fair either, I know how hard it was for me to make the choice to stop BF and with the added pressure I was made to feel like i had commited a crime against my baby and that felt truly awful.
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