What do you think is the biggest barrier to breastfeeding In Australia?

[Smoke Jaguar]

Oh, Tanby, :hugs: - I know how much work you have done to have the boy you have now
Mikenzees mum - in hindsight, you weren't being facetious, so don't apologise for something that never happened!
Kerry - I fail to see the hypocrisy? I, like many on here, would like to see the minimisation of formula use where BFing could have taken place once one or a combination of the barriers that Kelly lists are removed. If you choose to see it as a criticism then that's out of my control.
Chloe - I completely understand the modesty/shyness aspect, and I definitely believe there needs to be catering for that in building design. For non-religious people, though, a lot of it is still stigma. My mum doesn't cite religion when she tells me I should be using a blanket (I kid you not, a blanket is what she says), she cites convention! She'd rather call me an anarchist than support me in something that is as natural as hair on your head. Being that I must lack that shyness gene, I like to just feed where we are both comfy. But like I said, women who use coverings don't bug me, it's being told that I'm an exhibitionist that bugs me, IYKWIM

[Smoke Jaguar]

I think you're onto something, Tanya. I'm no counselling expert, but I would have thought that if a sexual abuse survivor could, through therapy, see that their body was more than just a crime scene, and that it could triumph over such trauma by nurturing a life (I mean, it's gone through a pregnancy, and that's got to be confronting to someone who hasn't worked through those issues yet), then BFing as the next step in healing isn't out of the question, is it? Dunno, my mum was abused and she BF us (continues to have these 'modesty' issues, but was able to see her boobs as more than just traitors) - not to say that everyone should be able to get over it, but it IS to say that encouraging BFing in a sexual abuse survivor shouldn't be taboo, it should be used as a tool for recovery and turning around that negative body imagery. Just a thought, and I hope I have not offended anyone in this situation, it is certainly not my intention.

[Trillian]

I haven't commented deeper in this thread other than my first initial post. But the choices offered in the poll don't really suit me and my situation. I have had issues BF and had to use formula.

I just want to know that if all of these issues were addressed and something done to correct them, what happens to the women that do everything humanly possible to establish a BF relationship and it still doesn't work? How are we to deal with that? Does she get the "that's OK, you did your best" or does she slink into the 'surely you could have done more' basket? Unfortunately there will always be women who can't BF, despite their best intentions and there will still be some who chose to FF from the outset regardless of what help there is available.

[Trillian]

I think what Kelly was getting at was that private LC do it for a living - they have paid to undertake courses to give them the training necessary to help women to get things going. I don't know how it is in WA, but I know that here is NSW it is like an optional extra for Midwives to become LC's - it isn't part of their mid studies as such, so therefore it is luck of the draw as to getting a good one through a public hospital, depending on how much extra training they did.

ETA - Older midwives didn't even get the training I think. One midwife I know who is in her 50's said that she paid to do extra courses to get her (then) nursing mothers certificate and that many of that era didn't because they weren't interested in going that step further kwim?

[BellyBelly]

Lactation consultants at hospitals don't have a strict standard/level of training and have varying experience - some just designated the title. IBCLC (international board certified lactation consultants) undergo huge amounts of hours of experience, need to study complex medical books, sit an exam and it is very strenuous - it is the highest qualification. My client I mentioned above ended up with mastitis twice from hospital advice and I daresay would have considered stopping... but after one visit with Pinky, in her home without time limits, everything was fine.

I think women need this experienced care, if we promote LC's in general it may not be enough as like I say there is no standard at present in hospitals. Same as MCHN's they have no lactation training unless they decide to themselves - we are surrounded by carers who have no pre-requisite training in breastfeeding.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Sherie, I took part in this discussion under the assumption that aside from physical reasons for not being able to BF, what are the other barriers to BFing. Having read through some of the submissions, it would seem that we are talking about social barriers - education, advertising, poor support etc.
I don't think this thread is meant to deal with all the issues to do with BFing, no-one is aiming to fix anyone else. It's about what we perceive the barriers to be, once we've decided we're not talking about the women who just can NOT BF. Kelly really does spell this out in her submission, and the submission is the catalyst for the thread.
ETA: Sorry, it's taking ages between starting my posts and submitting them (I'm supposed to be writing an assignment!), so by the time I submit, there is usually a few posts between the one I'm responding to!
Yes, when I suggested Medicare funded LC's, I meant the ones with the international qualification, the one that matters to me. And I was deadly serious - how could an LC not be as important as a psychologist or medical practitioner? It's a specialty that affects public health!

[Phoenix]

I just want to know that if all of these issues were addressed and something done to correct them, what happens to the women that do everything humanly possible to establish a BF relationship and it still doesn't work? How are we to deal with that? Does she get the "that's OK, you did your best" or does she slink into the 'surely you could have done more' basket? Unfortunately there will always be women who can't BF, despite their best intentions and there will still be some who chose to FF from the outset regardless of what help there is available.

Great point.
The current measure aren't working. If new measures are introduced then the rates will eventually increase so BF is the norm. With all mothers being supported and fully informed about BF then very few will have to FF. I think also the number of mothers who choose to FF may reduce if they were truly informed about the health disadvantages of FF. So in the end those mothers who truly can't BF may then have the option of giving their babies donor breastmilk (establishment of milk banks across Australia is one of the suggestions put fwd to the committee). So it may not happen overnight but hopefully by the time our children have kids BF will be the norm and those mothers who truly cannot BF will not be frowned upon because they will be so rare that other mothers will know that there must be some thing that has prevented it. Well thats what I feel will happen in an ideal world where the politicians do all the things necessary.

[Bathsheba]

Tanby: *Big Hugs* for working through all those issues and pain... my toes curled as i read your post as I've also experienced a fair degree of excruciating pain as my little man (I call him "Munch") has bitten me fairly regularly over the past few months (he has 8 teeth now)... to the point he has drawn blood and left a gaping hole. I've had to rely on formula to tide me over too as it also was too painful to express. Now, more recently, my left boob has really slowed down production and DS doesn't like feeding from that side anymore... he just squirms until he physically gets himself to the other one. Anyhow, it now seems that i am actually complimentary FF/BF as he has as least one bottle a day because one side BFing is not enough for him. I made enquiries at the pharmacy today about lactation medication... but I might just see how it goes... if I can keep going on just one side then I think I might leave it at that.

Kerry: How terrible that you had to endure being "banished" to another room in your own home! That must have made you feel so undervalued... how could you be expected to relax and enjoy the bonding time with that tension hanging in the air? Do men like this realise that what their wives are giving their children is worth literally more than gold? *Grrrr*

Also I just wanted to agree also that BFing has helped me work through a lot of physical insecurities and past abuse as well. I've never been one who likes being constantly touched because of this and some days I feel so "chaffed" and hypersensitive that I just want to scream.... but that's only some days.... most days I love the whole bonding time with my baby which is also what I meant when I mentioned "what baby might want". Feeding is not just about 'food in a tummy'... it's about a transfer of emotions/connecting and physical bonding. But I agree that this can also be largely shared via bottle feeding so i really don't wish to offend anyone about that.

Once again this afternoon I was able to BF successfully at my local plaza... infact one little old lady smiled at me as she passed by so that was nice. The seat wasn't comfortable but it did the job. Oh and yes i know Chloe about "sticky beaks!" LOL I have a real little nosey Parker here... I just keep my hand hovering over and as I don't have much to hide in the breast department it isn't too hard to deal with, someone would have to be standing right over me to get an eyefull. LOL at you lifting your baby out from under the cloth to everyone's surprise!

[2ndtimeround]

Kelly,

I stopped breast feeding for a number of reasons,

1) I wanted my sleep and didn't really understand anything about expressing and freezing breast milk
2) My breasts became so sore cracked and bled and it hurt
3) I went back to work fulltime after 6 weeks
4) I lived an unhealthy life at the time so I am glad I gave up breastfeeding. eg: Smoked, Drank, ate high fat foods. Now I am wiser and don't do any of that and I would definitely try to give BF a go for a while.

My children are now 17 and 14. The 17 year old is very close to me, intelligent, obese but well adjusted and totally together (other than weight) and is 5.11.

The 14 year old has an iq of 145, no weight problem, is almost 6 foot tall - reads at university level.

So I have to say, although BF is exceptional in some instances, it depends on the lifestyle of the mother. If the mother, drinks, smokes, eats crap and doesn't exercise and is totally unfit, it is probably better if she doesn't breast feed past a few weeks.

Cheers
Tracey

[smylie]

Definately anything that can done to make breastfeeding the 'norm' would be awesome.

As long as women who "have" to FF are not made to feel guilty what is wrong with saying 'breast is best' etc also mothers who go back to work and simply dont have time to express shouldnt feel guilty either.


Too many people I think because of lack of education and lack of continuation of care THINK they HAVE to FF....

I liked Mckenzies threads saying that it is 21st century so we should just be able to have choice.... i am actually surprised at myself for not realising this earlier.... I feel pressure to continue breastfeeding because i have no troubles doing so and i am now a stay at home mum so basically 'what else am i doing'
my hubby likes me breastfeeding as it is 'best' for jemima with regards to her immune system etc

i say things to my friends who have been very quickly convinced they 'cant' breast feed like "who cares where it comes from as long as the baby is getting fed" but to be honest i dont believe that i just dont want them to feel bad

if my friends had had the right kind of support they may very well have had the confidence to keep 'trying' i feel they got too little too late

and yes everyone women has the right to just choose but the barriers that are apparent in society make it TOO EASY for mothers to choose FF over bfing

[Mikenzees mum]

can i just say as a non breastfeeding mum( im a tube feeding mum), this is the first thread about this sort of thing that i havent found rude and offensive and i think that is great so well done all the posters belly belly for that i think thats great,

[Pandora]

Lactation consultants at hospitals don't have a strict standard/level of training and have varying experience - some just designated the title.

I agree that on the whole that may be true, but did want to add that at least one midwife/LC (who was also my MCHN) and at least 3 other LC are IBCLC certified, so its great to know that some hospitals at least do have them.

[smylie]

I have been thinking, I'm at that "crucial" 3 month mark with feeding Jemima now... I have heard a lot about my supply going up and down and stuff about now... the way she was feeding today was like she was sucking me dry.... but I have no idea to be honest....

so perhaps follow up appointments from Lactation Consultants 2 weekly when you first come home and then at 3 and 6 months would be good??

[Trillian]

IK, I realise what you're saying, but I was trying to take it to the next step - what happens after we have a model BF culture? (Just more of a hypothetical really but it is something that may arrise in the future) What happens to the Mums who give birth in the perfect world where ABM is just a story you think your Mum/grandmother made up (you mean babies actually survived on artificial milk?) and despite having the perfect environment to do it in with loads of external support from both health workers, family and social aceptance, in depth educational resources, and zero promotion of ABM - she still can't get it together even though she has no physical barrier stopping her? What happens to those mums?

I suppose it is asking for too much to expect that in 20-30 or even 40 yrs time that there wont be a need for ABM anymore as there will be milk banks on every second corner, meaning that the only options for infant feeding become BM or BM from a milk bank.

Maybe I think too much sometimes, but even though I know that this entire submission and enquiry is so very very important to setting up the 'ideal', there are still always going to be women with problems that need help isn't there?

[Mum2boy]

I think this thread is saying SO much just going by the number of replies. Its just terrible that there are people out there with such horrible experiences.

I had an emergency caeser, and when they did the epidural, they did it wrong and had to do it again. They told me that I would have some mild headaches afterwards. MILD?????!!! Are you kidding me?? My headaches started full on (unfortunately) the same day my milk came in. Basically, every time I sat upright, I felt like my neck wouldn't be able to support my head and felt like it weighed a tonne, and the pain was excrutiating. On top of that, Cooper wouldn't latch onto my left nipple and I was constantly having to look down, trying to get him to latch on, whilst I had this horrible pain. This went on for 2 weeks...And do you know what? I never once thought of putting him on formula.

I say each to their own and all, but I hear friends of mine say about their babies, 'oh, he didn't want my boobs' and 'I just didn't want to go through the hassle of it all' so their babies go on formula, and I just say nothing, because I still say each to their own, but I am happy to say, that through it all, I perservered and we got through it. I just feel really disappointed to hear mothers attitudes because there is an easier option - they take it.

I went to antenatal classes and they talk so much about how good b/milk is, but they DON"T tell you what to expect with breast feeding, and like so many people I know, about what to do if your milk starts to dry up! In my mothers group, there are 3 mums whose milk dried up, another got mastitis, and only I was left breastfeeding. What does that say!! The ones whose milk dried up, well, they were really disappointed, but didn't know what to do until it was too late.

I think there is a lot that needs to be done to better inform pregnant women. Motherhood alone is very confusing, there should be a lot more information given to pregnant women about what to expect.

[Rouge]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and share with you all my experience in hopes that helps bridge the gap that I feel causes a lot of anger and guilt from both sides of the fence.

With my first child I read books I educated myself as best I could I joined a parenting forum and I surrounded myself with people whom I thought were educated and experienced. I was very lucky in that even though I had a c/s and often complications can arise with milk coming in and latching vs positions I was able to feed quite easily. My milk came in within 24 hours, we had no real latching problems (other than the usual latching issues that arise for new bubs & new mums). I was at a hospital that was pro breastfeeding I thought everything was going great. I got home and I had over active let down a baby with reflux (in a time where dr's didn't really offer solutions for reflux ie. medications AR forumula etc). Because of the reflux and the over active let down we went through weeks of screaming. We went to our GP and they referred me to a paed. The paed saw the pain she was in checked a nappy and told me it was a form of gastro and that as a result my daughter was now suffering from lactose intolerance and needed to go on soy formula for a couple of weeks for her digestive system to settle down so that she could then go back on the breast. Being new parents and wanting what was best for our baby we did what our paed told us. Our MCHN had copies of all the paed's reports etc and it wasn't till we saw the MCHN we have now that she read it and shook her head and said he had it all wrong. We had a baby with reflux who had normal breastfeeding BM but we had been totally misdiagnosed. Anyway we fought to get her to take a bottle 24 hours of hell. She finally did and she still cried for the breast every time she went near me only wanting to take a bottle from my husband. She was on the bottle for 2 weeks. And at first I thought it was great no more screaming, somewhat happy baby (although still refluxy) and things seemed to be going well. So we tried to reintroduce the breast. She wouldn't take it, we had LC's I spent days at the hospital with feeding tubes and skin to skin contact, baths you name it we did it. It got to the point that the LC told us it was impacting on her psychologically, that you could tell that because if you held her anywhere near your chest or in a nursing position she would scream the house down. The LC told us we needed to make a decision that was best for us, and sometimes you have to know when you've had enough. And we had got to that point. So I expressed for a few months, we hired an electric pump and I took tablets to help with my supply. Then I got cracked nipples and realised that spending 8 hours a day attached to a machine was not a good quality of life for me or my daughter so we switched to formula. I was devastated. For years I was convinced we did the right thing (we didn't know the paed had given us wrong information) that I had tried everything possible, and if someone challenged me I would take that as a judgement. I would hate going to shopping centres and using baby rooms for all these women breastfeeding and here I was heating up a bottle of artificial milk because *I* couldn't breastfeed. And I'd get those looks or the questions "How come you aren't breastfeeding?" 'Oh you bottle feed" as though I was some disappointment to the human race. Like I was abusing my child. Then I thought to myself you know what I did what I could the very best I could, maybe someone else could have done better I don't know but *I* did the best that *I* could and that was enough. I had convinced myself that if I couldn't breastfeed my next baby that would be ok, some mothers can't breastfeed and thats just the way life is. Then as time went on we started thinking about TTC #2, I joined a website called BellyBelly (you might know it) and I started to become educated all over again. Then I started to learn more, I met a new MCHN who told me a few home truths about the lack of support and care I received. About how I should have been told how to manage overactive letdown and reflux and that would have helped. These things I didn't know. But you know what? Instead of blaming myself I thought to myself... why don't people know this stuff? Why is it that 3 different medical professionals think 3 different things? How can this be right. Then I had my son. And we started feeding again, and I had over active letdown and he had reflux (no way near as bad as paris luckily), but because of the things I had learnt I tried new things new ways and I noticed that things started working and I enjoyed it. I still had times where I would stress over his latch, or his weight gain, or the reflux etc But I persevered and I breastfed for just over 12 months until he self weaned. It wasn't always easy (even being a second child) but I knew what to expect. I knew about the steak & cheese cry, I knew that some babies needed a little bit extra help to latch, I knew that sometimes with overactive letdown you need to feed differently. And I realised that when I had my daughter I really wasn't that informed. I knew the basics but I didn't know the stuff that really mattered. It baffled me that there are books on what to expect when expecting... but where was the section or better yet the book that said "what to expect when breastfeeding".

I have heard so many stories over the years from friends and people who say they chose formula because they had no choice because they had to do what was best for their baby. And when someone brings up something to suggest that there might have been another way they get angry and defensive and feel persecuted. And I know I was exactly the same... exactly. But I think its moreso people want to share their knowledge they don't tell you so you can feel like an idiot who was uneducated. But the thing is we shouldn't have to tell each other, we should know. We should know before we conceive. And if a mother decides she doesn't like the steak & cheese cry, or she doesn't feel comfortable breastfeeding or she prefers the option of formula she shouldn't be ridiculed or mocked. And at the same time a woman who chooses to breastfeed her baby at a family function or a cafe shouldn't be scoffed at. The problem is our parents didn't have the information we have today. And we have the information but not everyone has access to it, or access to all of it. We should know all this stuff so that if you see someone who has a formula fed baby and they say "I chose to use forumal because I was more comfortable with that option" or whatever your reason is it will be accepted and not challenged because everyone knows the benefits, the trials and tribulations and the techniques for breastfeeding and everyone has the support to breastfeed if they choose to. We live in an information hungry era and people are just as passionate to share the information as they are to get it. But sometimes that gap that small tiny gap leaves FF mothers feeling like monsters, and BF mothers feeling like hippies or nipple nazi's. When the reality is neither is the reality. So next time someone accuses you of being a nipple nazi, or next time someone accuses you of being uneducated think about what they have been through. Think about their motive. Very rarely do people say and do things because they want you to feel bad. Usually its because they've had a bad experience or because they want to help. And just because you BF/FF doesn't mean you can't support or accept the other side. I prefer breastmilk for my children if they can get it, and I'm sure if it came down to it and we had some way of having breasmilk on tap everyone would choose that option for their child. But if someone chooses formula it doesn't mean they are ignorant or care less for the safety of their child. It just means they made the decision that was best for them. BUT and this is a big but, we need more education, we need this stuff to be taught in schools to be part of our every day life. So that when our children have their own children feeding guilt is a thing of the past. And inconsistent information is a thing of the past. Formula pushing chemists and medical professionals is a thing of the past. I do believe that this is the only way we will step forward. And I do think no matter how you feed your child we can do it united.

*hugs*
Cailin

[Phteven]

^ word!

mum2boy, I'm horrified that none of the midwives helped you to breastfeed lying down. After Imran's birth I fed him lying down for about the first 8 hours.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Well said, Cailin Thanks so much for that, I hope it didn't take too much out of you to type all of that!