Fussing and Tugging

[snowchickie79]

I have had a small win tonight. A RN from my hosi suggested I try using nipple shields to make her think it's the teat of a bottle. Needless to say I gave it a try and voila, she fed for 30 minutes and happily with no screaming or tugging. I could see she was getting milk as it was leaking out the side of her mouth so that was a small win. I did try at the end removing the shield to give her bare nipply again and she starting fussing once again. I'm wondering if her mouth is sore or something as to why the teat or shield would be nicer for her than my bare nipple. If the shield is meant to protect us from pain maybe it was doing the same for her???? Any thoughts anyone???

Kmn - My LC in hosi told me she had a fantastic suck and previously, up till about 5 weeks, I've had no problems with her suck or attachment so not sure if it would be a weak suck. The first week of BF'ing she actually grazed me and the LC told me due to her strong suck. When she does suck she gets so much milk that it leaks out the sides of her mouth. But hey it's something to consider and I'll ask my LC to check it again when I see her.

Kristin27 - No this stuff certainly isn't easy but made all the more annoying as we've had no major BF issues until last week. Initially i believe the fussing started because my supply dropped off but I know that it is much better so I'm thinking, and by all means could be completely and utterly wrong, that it's not so much of a supply issue at the moment but an attachment issue. At the moment Chloe is feeding every 4-5 hours during the day but does sleep from around 11pm till about 5am. At 5am I either given her a feed if she won't settle or she sleeps with me after her daddy has left for work. She then normally wakes at 7am (on the dot i might add) and she has a feed. Her morning feed is her best and I try to lay and feed her in bed. I have not had to comp her first morning feed as she seems content afterwards and normally falls back to sleep. Then wakes around 10am-11am for her next feed.
I did a dream feed with her last week but gave her 60ml of FF as my supply was still off a little. She drunk the 60ml without a problem. I didn't get her out of bed at all but at the end she let out a huge f@rt and knew I needed to change her so she woke up and then wanted more food which I gave her. When I first left hosi I was told to wake her at night but trying to wake her is near impossible and when I did manage to get her awake she would then not want to feed but also not want to go back to sleep. At my first clinic check they told me what I was doing was fine and to just demand feed and let her sleep if she wanted.
I'll try waking her tonight but if that fails then I'll express at the very least. I know this will only increase my supply but I'm also just worried about getting her attaching properly and consistently. I'm curious why the shields work but when i removed them and gave her bare nipple she begun fussing again.

[Kristin27]

Hmm not sure about the nipple shields, I would have thought the nipple shields would be more uncomfortable that just a nipple for the baby, nipples are nice and soft, better than plastic? Maybe thats just what Chloe likes at the moment. But if it works go with it.

Yeah it takes me a while to wake DD for a dream feed, but I do know some babies won't wake for it. I guess you can only try if she doesn't want it put her back to bed. And you're right if shes getting enough during the day you don't have to wake her for a feed. I do D/feeds to get DD to sleep longer through the night, but your DD is already sleeping very well!

How did you go last night?

[snowchickie79]

Morning Kristin,

Well Chloe woke at 4am so i popped her in bed with me and offered her a feed. She took it and didn't complain. She fed for about 20-30 minutes and fell back to sleep so i popped her back in her cradle. She then woke at 7.45am and i fed her again. 4am feed was normal BF without shields and this morning was a mixture as she fussed a little. She fed for 40 mins and was falling asleep. So far no comps needed.

The shields I have are a rubber silicone, so nice and soft and flexible. They are actually softer and more flexible than the teats and very thin. Very comfy to use i must say.

I will see how her next feed goes. I'm just curious as to why she likes the shields. I'm hoping she does not have a sore mouth or something.

[Kmn]

I'm glad the shields are helping! Have you in the last week done something that might change how your nipples (as opposed to your milk) taste?? like new soap or lansinoh or a change in washing powder from a week ago??
And that picture is just very special...

[Kristin27]

Thats great she had a couple of BF's. Lets hope it continues today - small steps!

[snowchickie79]

Kmn - No i haven't changed soaps or anything. Not that I can think of anyway. I have noticed that Chloe's wee is smellier than it has been to the point I thought she has done #2 a couple of times and gone to change her and found just wet nappy. Could that be indicating something??

I tried to give her a BF around lunch as we were out and she was fussing and would only feed for 5 minutes or so each side. I came home, put the shields on and away she went.

If my nipples taste different to her then I'm not sure what could be causing it. Only difference this last week has been I'm taking aktavite but otherwise no changes. I'm also taking motilium but I've been taking that on/off since around week 2.

[MumInTheVines]

Hi snowchickie,

Just wanted to say a huge well done to you on persevering when it seemed in the early parts of your post you were really considering giving it all up. Breastfeeding is often very difficult to establish in those early days, your hormones are all over the place and you're both brand new to this thing! It's hard to know how much they are getting? are you producing enough? These things you can only answer in time when your confidence grows, which will happen as your bub grows and before you know it 6 months will have passed and you are a pro!

Just wanted to add ... did you know that expressing is not an accurate measure of how much milk you can produce? Your bub is WAY more efficient at extracting milk from your breast. The pump really is no indication. I can only express 10mls, but have managed to breastfeed my DD for almost 15 months.

It definately sounds as though your DD has nipple confusion. She is confused between the bottle and the nipple and is obviously preferring the bottle as she can extract the milk easier from that. Well done for using shields. We used these in the early days as well and gradually she will let you take them away, one feed at a time. So don't be afraid of using them, but still try and give her a couple of feeds without them so your supply isn't affected.

Brewers yeast is also very good for your supply and can be baked into yummy cookies that you can snack on through the day. Do a google search for the recipe if you are interested!

I hope things continue to improve for you. Remember that there are ABA councellors available 24/7 if you ever need help or someone to talk to.

[Marlene]

I have noticed that Chloe's wee is smellier than it has been to the point I thought she has done #2 a couple of times and gone to change her and found just wet nappy. Could that be indicating something??

I would be getting your DD checked for a Urinary Tract Infection, just to be on the safe side. We had the same smelly wee situation (I also thought he had done poos) with our DS when he was only 10 weeks old, I got fobbed off by 3 doctors when I asked about it being a UTI, they said he was too young to get one, especially as he was a boy. It ended up that he did have a UTI. I'm not saying that your DD has one, but, I would definently get smelly wee checked out and do not let the doctors fob you off, demand a urine test.
I don't know if this would have any relation to your breast/bottle problem, but the hospital (where he eventually ended up) was asking me if he was fussy or not eating.

ETA: I didn't mean to panic you about this, but, it is such an easy/painless test to do you might as well get her checked out just to be safe. She probably is too young to get a UTI, but it's always good to be sure, as there are always exceptions. (like my DS)

[Barb Glare]

Hi,
You really are doing a great job. Re the nipple shield, nipple shields are often a good tool that can be used in the short term to assist your baby to latch. Babies are designed to breastfeed, and if they can't that means that something is preventing them, not that they just don't want to. Often the nipple shield will hit a spot on their palate that stimulates them to suck. It is fine to use if it helps. Your story is a good illustration of why we are so reluctant to use bottles in the early weeks at least. Rather than the bottle being easier, I think it's more realistic to say that the two forms of feeding are different - like driving a manual car or an automatic car. You can do both, but it might just seem a bit easier at the start with an automatic.
A 200g weight gain is fabulous - well done for sticking with it and solving the problems that were thrown in your way

[snowchickie79]

Quick update:

Still having issues.. I think my supply is now suffering because Chloe is not feeding properly with or without the shields. I have an appt with LC on Wednesday (was today but they had to change it). We had a shocker day on Wednesday after I had a chicken stir fry for dinner Tues night. She was up most of Wednesday with belly pains and no poo followed. I ended up sleeping on the lounge with her Wed night as she wouldn't lay flat on her back for more than 30 seconds without screaming in pain, and a blood curdling scream I might add. So yesterday we were much better. Then last night my supply was low so I had a 90ml EBM in the fridge and gave it to her. About an hour later she started screaming again and that was when I realised that half the EBM I'd expressed on Wed Night and half the Thurs morning so she'd gotten half a feed from the stir fry incident. Not happy jan and I felt so bad for her. I ended up giving her a full FF at 9pm to try and flush her out and voila!!!!! Mind you it resulted in her 2nd bath for the day and with mummy in with her.

This morning at 4am she fussed with BF and I had another 90ml EBM (from last night) so i gave her that and then she slept with me till 8.45am. I gave her 35 min BF at 9am but then she was fussing afterwards still even though she went to sleep on me so i gave her a 60ml comp FF and she finished it in record time, gave her another FF and she took another 30ml so I'm really not sure how much she is getting from the BF'ing at this stage.

I'm wondering if I'd be better of just expressing and giving her EBM and then a FF afterwards depending on what I've been able to express. At least I'd know what she was getting and would be less fussing with making up FF's etc.. So not sure what to do!

[snowchickie79]

Ok so I've been giving EBM for almost a week and was supposed to see LC last Wednesday which got postponed. I go tomorrow to see her and hopefully might be able to sort out this attachment issue although after this long on EBM I'm thinking this is the path we'll be on now..

So today I went and had Chloe weighed at the clinic and she put on 400g in 10 days!! Nurse was impressed and said that it was fine. Considering 200g is a good gain for a week and she was only 4 days off a fortnight then 400g is on the good side of it. Nurse said she is possibly making up for the fortnight she only gainde 50g in total and also might be having a growth spurt. She said her feeding schedule (which I've written down) was fine as she was having small feed, then a big feed, then small etc. She said if Chloe wants food to give it to her as she obviously needs it so that made me feel much better.

When i total up her feeds she is getting between 500ml and 700ml per day. Clinic nurse said that I don't have to wake her every 3 hours to feed anymore and just go back to demand feeding with EBM and FF. I finally have an appointment tomorrow with my LC (another thread) so see if can sort out BF'ing issues or if I stay with EBM/FF situation which is obviously agreeing with Chloe.

See what my LC says tomorrow and I'm also considering upgrading my pump to a full blown electric pump. At the moment I have the medela mini electric but if i'm pumping full time I'm not sure it'll keep up.

[Shanti]

Hi Snowchickie,

I've been reading through your read.... just wondering how you ended up? Did you persist with the BF'ing or did you end up expressing and giving EBM with FF feeds?
Just curious as your story and issues you've had are similar to what i've been experiencing at the moment.....

(I have a BF thread in this area too as to whats been happening with me)

I hope you worked through the problems and was able to BF even if only half the time. Be great to hear from you.

With the pump, I have a Medela Mini Electric also but my LC says they burn out after 48hrs (total usage) so they are only for only the occasional expresser. I ended up getting a Medela Swing it's great.....