In praise of the C-Section

[Inanna]

Well I have had an interesting situation over the past few days but haven't been able to dedicate time to write about it...

I was contacted by a local woman who wants to birth her baby at a nearby (as there are no birthing services in our small town another thread!) public hospital. She wants a water birth. They don't offer water birth. She wants her family to stay with her. They won't allow it... What can we do? I heard a lot of "it's not fair" "it's not evidence based"... All true. However, she won't pay to have a homebirth or a birth at a nearby private hospital that encourages water birth.

She is being pressured into a c/section (she had one with her first birth)...

I was able to reflect on this thread in answer to her...

She has to make a decision about the type of birth she wants. If to her birth is a sacred rite & as such deserves to be made a priority... I know she believes it is. But right now in Australia you have to pay to get that... At least in these parts.

She was angry at the system, at the hospital, it was all unfair. And it is... However, there is no fairness in engaging a system you know won't support you! An alternative needs to be sought.
I offered to help with working through the anger and the blame. But I can't support decisions made out of trying to manipulate a system to give what it won't. I don't know if I make sense. But I can't support birthing in a tub when it's contrary to hospital policy. It is a negative energy in a sacred rite! I won't do it! I won't because it's not fair to the rite of birth... Nor is it fair to the care providers (in my opinion). It's not safe (IMO) I of course would support a VBAC - but the anger around where & how she can labour needs to be worked through. So, it brought up a lot for me about this thread. Where for her she wasn't grateful for her c/section. She was angry and is angry about it. She wants it different this time. But there is little choice unless she pays.
So, not everyone is grateful for their c/section - or in fact their vaginal birth! It's about the individual birth and how empowered a woman feels.

This Mama either needs to be responsible for her choice to birth in a place that won't agree to her requests (water birth) or she needs to find an alternative. Because that's what our system has come to. Right now we can't get the birth we want in every birthing place. We have to work to change the system and we are. However, to enter a birth expecting to get what is not offered is setting ourselves up for failure. A sense of failure and anger.

That unfortunately is our responsibility. It is our responsibility (I believe) to work to change this system so that our daughters & sons don't birth this way. But right now it's like going to Beijing and drinking the water - youre gonna get sick. Thinking you will get a water birth in a non water birth zone is setting yourself up for failure. That is the way it is.

[skeetaboat]

Well said Inanna. Hence the outrage that women may not even be able to buy such a choice anymore with the changes to homebirth laws!

It is unjust that only those with the resources can get the birth they want; that some women without the resources to buy superior care have to accept birthing in an environment that is hostile or unsupportive towards her choices.

I feel for your friend. I hope she can work through her anger and set herself up for a more peaceful and positive birthing experience.

[thepixie]

Deb, I repped you but I did want to say publicly what an awesome post that was.

However, to enter a birth expecting to get what is not offered is setting ourselves up for failure. A sense of failure and anger.

:yeahthat: so very true.
I was fortunate giving birth to my DD that I didn't need a csection and had a VB without any tearing or epi. As far as the birth itself went that was my main hope. I say hope rather than goal because I don't really feel it was fully within my control. Of course many other things happened which, in a perfect world would not happen next time.... synto drip, confined to bed, continuous monitoring, antibiotics, synto drip afterwards due to small PPH. DD was not breathing and required resus and was whisked off to NICU while I was left alone, bleeding and immobile in an empty room on a drip, not even my husband there, after the most overwhelming experience of my life. All in all I felt more processed than cared for, and subject to a process I was not able/ allowed to fully understand. As much as I would want the next experience to be different, having had a baby who needed specialist paediatric care at birth I don't think I could bring myself to give birth somewhere where that is not available. So it is likely I will have to face being processed in a similar way the next time. Which I can handle, but it would be nice if it could be different IYKWIM.
As for csections, many people swear by them and good luck to them. A friend of mine only has one complaint about her two csections, and that is that with her second pregnancy she had to endure a whole 45 mins of labour and that was 45 mins too long for her! What is sad though is those who feel they were railroaded into them, or otherwise did not get to make a choice, and struggle to come to terms with how their birth turned out. For myself I know I would be upset if after a long and painful labour I had to have a csection so I can understand that point of view completely.

[femme]

Well I have had an interesting situation over the past few days but haven't been able to dedicate time to write about it...

I was contacted by a local woman who wants to birth her baby at a nearby (as there are no birthing services in our small town another thread!) public hospital. She wants a water birth. They don't offer water birth. She wants her family to stay with her. They won't allow it... What can we do? I heard a lot of "it's not fair" "it's not evidence based"... All true. However, she won't pay to have a homebirth or a birth at a nearby private hospital that encourages water birth.

She is being pressured into a c/section (she had one with her first birth)...

I was able to reflect on this thread in answer to her...

She has to make a decision about the type of birth she wants. If to her birth is a sacred rite & as such deserves to be made a priority... I know she believes it is. But right now in Australia you have to pay to get that... At least in these parts.

She was angry at the system, at the hospital, it was all unfair. And it is... However, there is no fairness in engaging a system you know won't support you! An alternative needs to be sought.
I offered to help with working through the anger and the blame. But I can't support decisions made out of trying to manipulate a system to give what it won't. I don't know if I make sense. But I can't support birthing in a tub when it's contrary to hospital policy. It is a negative energy in a sacred rite! I won't do it! I won't because it's not fair to the rite of birth... Nor is it fair to the care providers (in my opinion). It's not safe (IMO) I of course would support a VBAC - but the anger around where & how she can labour needs to be worked through. So, it brought up a lot for me about this thread. Where for her she wasn't grateful for her c/section. She was angry and is angry about it. She wants it different this time. But there is little choice unless she pays.
So, not everyone is grateful for their c/section - or in fact their vaginal birth! It's about the individual birth and how empowered a woman feels.

This Mama either needs to be responsible for her choice to birth in a place that won't agree to her requests (water birth) or she needs to find an alternative. Because that's what our system has come to. Right now we can't get the birth we want in every birthing place. We have to work to change the system and we are. However, to enter a birth expecting to get what is not offered is setting ourselves up for failure. A sense of failure and anger.

That unfortunately is our responsibility. It is our responsibility (I believe) to work to change this system so that our daughters & sons don't birth this way. But right now it's like going to Beijing and drinking the water - youre gonna get sick. Thinking you will get a water birth in a non water birth zone is setting yourself up for failure. That is the way it is.

I agree with all you have said trying to manipulate a system, hospital obstetrician to negotiate with them and think that you have equal power is crazy. It is what you see often though women think they will have a 'chat" with there Ob and that they feel they have a special relationship with them that they can get what they want. I even had one woman tell me she was having another c/s because her ob will remember what her insides look like WTF I almost fell over. He was suggesting she have the c/s before 36 weeks as she went into labout with a previous baby at 36 weeks I informed her of the increased risk of breathing difficulties and urged her to do some research she didn't went ahead with the scheduled c/s and baby was shipped out to a tertiary facility because of you guessed it breathing difficulties they were seperated for days as a result.

[sushee]

I've been reading this thread but have not responded because as someone who's never had a c/s, I didn't think I had much to say.

However I will state that there was much pressure on me to have a c/s with my youngest son as he was in distress. Luckily because I knew a little about how births in hospital can be medicalised quite quickly, I asked for him to be monitored and was augmented instead, and I did manage a vaginal birth in the end. However, my husband was just about ready to divorce me because he was being led to believe that I was putting my baby's life at risk by asking to try to continue labour as opposed to agreeing immediately to a c/s. But that's a whole other story.

I am more interested in the comment about not having a choice, and the guilt associated with it. I had IVF to conceive my youngest son. I didn't have a choice as I simply cannot conceive naturally. Of the myriad of feelings I had about IVF, guilt about having to go down that route wasn't one of them. Why feel guilty about something you have no choice over?

So if you HAD to have a c/s, because there was no other choice, then guilt shouldn't be a factor. It's like saying I feel guilty that I'm Asian, or a woman, or alive even. No choice should equal no guilt.

That's why I don't get threads like this. If you had a c/s because you HAD to have one, how can anyone advocating vaginal birth make you feel bad? I know that nataural conception is preferable, has lower genetic defect rates, is cheaper, is how nature intended, but if I can't do it that way, why would any of that bother me?

And if I chose a c/s then why do I need to defend my decision to anyone? Because if you can be made to feel bad about your choice, then it obviously wasn't a very good, well-considered or defendable choice, was it?

So get over it, people. BB is trying to get a msg out there, a msg that it believes is for the benefit of womenkind in general. It's not about having a go at individuals about their personal choice (or lack thereof). Once you understand that, then we can all co-exist without all this unnecessary angst.

[Bathsheba]

:yeahthat: Your last parapgragh absolutely hit the nail on the head Sush!!!

This thread pops into my mind often whenever i think about my Graves (thyroid) disease. Should i start a thread "In Praise of Graves" because of the way it has helped me loose all my extra weight that piled on in my pregnancies? Gee i can eat whatever i want and still see the kilos slide off... from 82 to 62 kilos in a matter of months... what woman wouldn't be thrilled? It has also given me huge spurts of energy as my metabolism flies like a motor on constant rev. Quite handy that.... but if i didn't also tell you that I am also at risk of a thyroid storm ie heart attack and complete organ failure i would be doing you a disservice. Maybe the hand-tremors, the muscle weakness, the hair loss (I'm talking clumps in the shower that make me feel like i have had chemo)...are all a small price to pay for looking as svelt as i have been?

Now my condition is largely managed by medication.... but I never quite know when i might have further issues down the track. One of the leading causes of an over active thyroid is having a baby... so guess you could consider it a complication of birth. Do I wish that i could have remained healthy but a bit fatter? Definitely... i could "praise graves" for it's very limited benefits but i don't think it would be that wise... because really, health is the better option, if given the choice.

[skeetaboat]

FFS people!! If your willing to give it then be willing to take it!!!!!

Ive had 4 c/s all completely different. yes in 2 cases it saved my babies life and in 2 cases it was unneccesary. To say you have no remorse is shiat especially if you havent had one!!!!!

It may not hit now....but maybe in 5 years time...10 years. You just DONT know.

As for BB being unsupportive...get a grip!!!!! I have had nothing but help, guideance and respect given to me by those on here through all 4. I think those who are being 'agressive' need to go back and read the guidelines and post in the appropriate sections for maximum benefit to start with!

Did I miss a post somewhere? The convo seems to have taken a corner..

[~Raven~]

That's why I don't get threads like this. If you had a c/s because you HAD to have one, how can anyone advocating vaginal birth make you feel bad?

Me too.

[*Belle*]

Me too.

Same, those who have had to have c/s shouldnt have to justify the way we have birthed our babies.

After being in labour for 3 days and unable to birth my baby during the pushing stage as she was stuck, I needed a c/s. All I wanted was my baby to arrive safe and sound and be healthy and survive and for myself to survive too. My 2nd c/s was also necessary but not emergency c/s. Why should we have to justify c/s for our babies?

[BellyBelly]

No-one has to justify themselves to anyone. They FEEL they have to justify themselves because they think they are being made out to be inadequate or whaever. I think everyone in this discussion (apart from the odd outburst from randoms) has been respectful and its been a very interesting discussion, which we've all learnt something from.

[skeetaboat]

Why should we have to justify c/s for our babies?

You don't. I don't think anyone has insinuated that people who have a c/s need to justify it. Or that anyone should feel bad about needing or having a c/s. Overwhelmingly the posts in this thread are respectful of the fact that for some people, unnecessareans are upsetting, and for others, cesareans are a valid birth choice - each to their own, respect for informed birth choices, yadayada.

.. Hasn't it?

BTW thanks to all the contributers to this thread, I for one have found it very thought provoking and interesting. And I've been inspired to post my positive c/s birth story, so hopefully I get some time to sit down and write it.

[maz]

Did I miss a post somewhere? The convo seems to have taken a corner..

Nah sorry matie....I did hence me deleting the post......I shouldnt go back and reread previous post.....3 FIRM SMACKS FOR MAZ!!!!!!

[Inanna]

It has been a very interesting thread. Mischa - the very point of the thread at the onset I believe was that people don't feel "guilty" for their choice to have a c/section! What has come to pass though is acceptance (at least by the majority) that people (myself included) don't speak about the beauty & sacredness of birth to stick it to those who have had a c/section...
That c/section saves lives & is absolutely necessary sometimes. One of the objectives of this wonderful site is to educate women (& men) on ways to acheive a natural birth. That c/section isn't as necessary as some believe and can often (but certainly not always) avoided.

[*Belle*]

No-one has to justify themselves to anyone. They FEEL they have to justify themselves because they think they are being made out to be inadequate or whaever. I think everyone in this discussion (apart from the odd outburst from randoms) has been respectful and its been a very interesting discussion, which we've all learnt something from.

Honestly I dont have a problem the way I birthed as I tried my best and unfortunately it wasnt to be. I agree it has been respectful in the most part, some posts of been a bit one sided, bot mostly all good its been interesting.

[*Belle*]

You don't. I don't think anyone has insinuated that people who have a c/s need to justify it. Or that anyone should feel bad about needing or having a c/s. Overwhelmingly the posts in this thread are respectful of the fact that for some people, unnecessareans are upsetting, and for others, cesareans are a valid birth choice - each to their own, respect for informed birth choices, yadayada.

.. Hasn't it?

BTW thanks to all the contributers to this thread, I for one have found it very thought provoking and interesting. And I've been inspired to post my positive c/s birth story, so hopefully I get some time to sit down and write it.

Yes it has, and I agree most have been respectful as mentioned above. I didnt say anyone insinuated at all. For those who know me on BB (as belle (I have changed my name) know I am not a pusher of c/s at all, I only say do what you feel is best in your own situation.

[*Belle*]

One of the objectives of this wonderful site is to educate women (& men) on ways to acheive a natural birth. That c/section isn't as necessary as some believe and can often (but certainly not always) avoided.

I understand this objective, and its a great one. For me, I am not a member of this community due to this objective though due to my experiences, I am a member of this community as I believe in gentle parenting and really benefit from the members thoughts and advice.

[Emma1979]

i haven't read the responses, but just wanted to say that having had an emergency c-section first time around, and a VBAC 12 days ago, if i were to get pregnant again i would choose an elective c-section without hesitation.... i have found the recovery excruciating this time and am still having massive issues 12 days on... i feel like i haven't been able to care properly for my baby or toddler due to barely being able to move... when i left hospital after my c-section i wasn't even on pain killers... i'm still taking them today.
anyways just wanted to tell my story, as someone who has experienced both, for me the c-section is the only way i would ever have another child (not that we are planning on it though).

[Mummato2]

Emma1979 - I am sorry to hear about your VBAC experience. This is a great point that birth choices are exactly that - individual choices!

I've said it so many times before, but if the choice is informed AND right for your situation, then you need to make the decision and not feel guilt.

I think the original post's meaning was those that have to have or choose to have a c-section shouldn't carry guilt........one thing I was always made to believe and still do is that NO ONE can make you feel anything! You dictate your feelings on things.

You do what is right for you so long as you have your facts - and if a natural birth advocate is posting about why c-sections or other interventions are wrong for them, or posting about their fantastic natural birth - then that's them expressing their opinion and not personally attacking other birth choices.

I can't honestly say that I have come across a post yet on BB where someone has outwardly criticized someone else's birth choice - some strong opinions yes - but not criticism.

I've got a friend who is having an elective c-section in 10 days with her first baby. She asked me today if I thought she was "copping out". I told her it didn't matter what I thought, it mattered that she got all the facts in making her decision, pros/cons etc and most importantly in the end she feels like she had the birth experience she wanted.