11 yr old argues with everything i say.

[JBM]

my 11 year old son is driving me crazy. no matter what it is he has to argue with me.
some examples are.
school lunches: he doesn't want sandwiches, "no one else brings sandwiches to school" is what he says. then to make it worse my DH asked 1 child what he brought for lunch that day, was it sandwiches. and of course he didn't bring them, his teacher said he was the only child who didn't bring them.LOL. it only made it worse. he yells and screams at me then just makes this annoying grunting sound when i make him take sandwiches to school.
he actually wants chips or junk BTW. i don't love him because i don't let him have these things in his lunch.
then to top it all of i found he had been putting his sandwiches under the house after school, so when i checked his lunch box it was empty.
i have started cutting all the boys sandwiches a different way so he cannot deny that they are his.

then another thing is he won't go to bed at night, he talks with his brother who he has to share a room with ATM while we wait to build as we only have 2 rooms.
he wakes his dad up who works shift work, then i make him go into another room and he carries on so much saying " it wasn't me" over and over again until he waked DH up again. i made him miss out on taking a cupcake to school yesterday that he had made the day before because of it and he just says to me
" i don't care" " it wasn't me anyway"

arggggggggggg. it is so annoying, i know he does it for attention which i try not to give to him. if i make his brother leave the room theres no problem, but the thing is his brother wants to go to sleep and he can't do that til the older one does which is after 10 pm half of the time. this is too late for a 9 year old, who on his own would normally be asleep by 8 or 8.30 pm.

if i accuse him of anything, he will deny it was him even though it is something the other boys could not have physically been able to do becasue of their height. if i see him do something naughty he will still deny it. after i just watched him do it.

he makes me so angry sometimes and i try to distract him. give him jobs to do to make him feel important, but if he isn't getting 100% of the attention then he starts.


sorry this has been so long but i could go on and on and i just need to get it out.

[Feijoa Mum]

First of all
I have one of these too and man some days he really makes it hard to like him let alone love him!! Of course I do but you know what I mean.

School lunches are a mission in this house too just with him though. The other two school aged boys are happy to take what is packed.
Can you try a compromise with him? Ok so you dont want sandwiches, fine you need to come up with a healthy alternative because chips and junk are not lunch! Give him the responsibilty within reason, if he is refusing what is offered.
If he still isnt happy fine go without. He will not starve but the hungry behaviour is bloody hard to deal with. A week of being hungry will soon make him see sandwiches really arent that bad.

Consistency is the key for me as mine is continuously pushing the boundries just to see if he can get away with it this time, so I need to make sure I hold my ground not matter how much I just wanna give in for the ease of it.

DS12 (almost 13) is now entering another horrible phase so be prepared. I have a fantastic book called "he'll be ok - growing gorgeous boys into good men" and she says that about now (age 11) they will leave for a few years and we wont recognise the monster they turn into but they will return to us again about 17-18. We just have to hold on and steer them the best we can.

My DH works shift too so I know it is hard to work around, but they really are at a dad stage so rope him in and try to get some more one on one dad time happening.
He is stuck between that awful not old enough to do it by myself yet but too old to be hanging out with my parents and not knowing how to verbalise his frustrations either.

Sending you many many - stop and count to 10 vibes.

xxx

[fourthontheway]

Don't apologise for the length of your post, you could double the length I think

My answer to the school lunch problem (I'm a home schooler, but I have an 11yr old ) would be "well you are old enough to make your own lunch if you are unhappy with what I make".

As for the ridiculous, non sensical, arguments OOOOH BOY I know about those!!! I find that since homeschooling started we do a lot less of that, but I'm very lucky to be able to have that option, I realise not everyone does. What I did prior to homeschool was refuse to engage in stupid rguments. If you see him doing something, and he denies it, refuse to engage with an argument. State that you know the truth and blatantly ignore any disrespect that follows - tell him that you won't discuss it until he is speaking to you politely.

The sleeping issues are harder to fix, if it was just him refusing to go to bed then it would be no big deal, he could suffer tiredness and eventually get bored and go to bed. But when other family members are suffering it's not ok is it. I have no suggestions for you at all on that front sorry!

Have you heard of bush flower remedies? There is one called Adol-essence, that is very good for kids this age. Maybe you could give that a go. You can buy it online at the bush flower remedy website, or in your local health food store. Perhaps he could benefit from some extra physical activity or some counseling?

I hear your frustration, I hope you find a workable solution to this problem soon, it's daunting isn't it thinking they're like this at 11 .... what will they be like at 16 *gulp*

[JBM]

thank you so much guys, i was just so frustrated when i wrote that. boys. yes they are at an awkward stage and he always has been a very head strong child.
DH spends time with DS 1 every second sat for 4 hrs, he takes turns with him and DS2 every sat, DS3 is still happy to be with me. DS1 is so good when he is alone with just one of us, he is like a different child but the thing is we can't always do this.
i will try some of your suggestions and even look at getting that book, maybe it might help.

thank you so much.

[fourthontheway]

Keep us posted

[JBM]

just when i thought i'd have to go and jump of the nearest bridge, that by the way has no water in the river below it, LOL, there has been a repreive. only small but a step forward.
DS1 and i did some exersise yesterday, walked for 30 mins, just us and it seemed to make him happy for the day. he was much less annoying to his brothers and was less arguementative than usuall too.
i mean it wasn't all gone, that would be a miracle but we had a good day.

as for the whole school thing i have made a deal with him if he takes sangas for 4 days then he can have a roll up, with ham and chesse on fridays. he seemed ok with this.


fingers crossed.

i know this boy won't be here for long but i am hopefull of some more days with this DS1 ( nice boy)
and not that DS1 ( horror child)

thanks again. will keep you posted.

[JBM]

well we knew it wouldn't last long.
DS1 got up this morning, nice as pie to me and then just went into the other room and i heard this thump, then DS3 came in crying to me. i heard everything and DS1 just did it because he is bigger, no other reason. ARGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
so i made him miss out on his turn to get a reward today and gave it to his little brother.

i don't know if this made things better, DS1 was chucking a tanty then, tears and everything.

seriously why does he have days like this?

just needed to vent.

[KimB]

OMG i read this and this could be my house lol. Huge hugs to you JBM as I soooooo know what you are going through. My DS1 is 11 and knows everything and can't be told what to do and rebels against everyone. He also has the screaming matches and the lying about doing stuff. AAARrrrrrrggggghhhhh as if motherhood wasn't hard enough!!!!!! My DS1 is a very active boy to and I know when he comes home from school whether he has eaten lunch or not by his attitude. If he is all over the place I get him to eat first then talk to me. He also shares a room with his younger brother who is 9. He also keeps him awake by talking half the night.

Unfortunately he has an older sister who is causing problems and he has decided that if she can do things then so can he. We are really trying to get him out of this habit quick smart (learning as we go along lol)

Well good luck to all of us and may we stay sane enough to cope with the others that come after

[kawazuki]

JBM i could of written this post about my DS he is 10.
and horrible soem days.
just treats us like crap, argues with everything.
i will say wow what a nice day lets go play footy, his response" nope is horrible outside, i dont even like footy"

thsi is a kid who had a bedroom painted in roosters team colours and every roosters item you could imagine lol

no tips as im struggling as well.

just hugs and support saying all is going to work out.

[deletedit]

Hehe I've been having nonsensical arguments with mine for almost 9 years (she was an extremely early talker). And as to the lunch? She makes her own, still complains about it and then when we buy her the ingredients she wants she doesn't eat them and STILL complains, and then we get into a big argument because we've bought her exactly what she has been whining she wants and she doesn't want them the instant we get them. You can't win.

And I too am a horrible mother for not buying crisps and lollies by the kilo. Fruit is not food, everyone knows that

[BellyBelly]

Parent Effectiveness Training is brilliant for families, I definitely recommend the book (which we have in the BB online store) or the course which is great to share experiences. We have so many less problems here since PET, and lots more love and understanding.

Here's from their blog which may help a little.

Parent Effectiveness Training: The Blog: arguing with kids

JAN 7, 2009

The Best Relationships Lack Compromise
Does this sound familiar?

"I'm not eating those."
"Oh, yes you are!"

How about this?

"I need to talk to you about something."
"Can't you just leave me alone for one second!?"

These types of conflicts occur often. When we have what seem like irreconcilable needs, in order to move forward, it seems that often one party ends up fulfilling their needs at the expense of the other’s.

"Compromise" is a word often tossed around in these situations. We have all heard the conventional wisdom that every good relationship is based on compromise. All of us have been told at one time or another that we need to compromise.

When we hear “compromise” though, it usually signals to us that we are going to have to give up something that we want for the greater good of the relationship. The attitude/mindset of both parties is still usually one of Win-Lose; each has concerns about losing and being sure they get most of what they want—their solutions.

Compromise means that one or both parties will forfeit one or more of their needs so that everyone can get along.

A compromise for our quarrels above might look like this:

Example 1:

"I don't want to eat my broccoli; it makes me gag!"
"You need your vegetables. Now just take 5 bites!"

Example 2:

"Fine, I guess I’ll wait on you; just let me know when you feel like talking."

In the first example, the child does not get his needs met. He may submit and eat his broccoli, which could leave him feeling powerless, frustrated, perhaps resentful, or he may try a fight or flight response. In any of these situations, harm is done to the relationship. The parent has sent the message to her child that her own needs take precedence over his.

In the second example, one person has completely submitted and sacrificed their needs for another. This person has put his or her own needs on the back burner, which will likely be frustrating and again may lead to feelings of anger and resentment.

P.E.T. offers us an alternative to compromising, called Method III. Instead of putting ourselves through the frustration of not having our needs met through compromise, or feeling like we have to battle our loved ones in a “my needs vs. your needs” battle, we can clearly state our needs and then discuss and reach a solution that meets everyone's needs. In essence, everyone gets what they want.

We will be discussing the six steps of Method III conflict resolution in more detail in an upcoming post. Until then, please feel free to leave comments about your experiences with compromise, how it made you feel, the effect it has had on your relationships, or anything else!




JUN 2, 2010

What is Unacceptable to You?

When You Own the Problem

Being in relationships with other people--parents, sisters, brothers, friends--inevitably means that at times their behavior will be unacceptable to you because it interferes with you getting your needs met, prevents you from enjoying your life or makes you angry.

You want to use skills that will be effective in bringing about a change in the other person's behavior and yet not hurt the relationship. Your task then is to tell the other person that you need his or her help. You want to be honest, but you want to do it in such a way that your message doesn't make the other person feel put-down, hurt, angry or unwilling to change the behavior that is giving you a problem. Unfortunately, most people find it is not easy to do this. Here are some of the reasons:
We are often afraid to confront others in the first place because we fear dealing with their feelings afterward.
We are upset or even angry and don't want the other person to know it.
We fear getting into an argument or conflict.
We are afraid we will make the other person embarrassed, sorry or even guilty.
Here are things to consider when the behavior of others is unacceptable and causes you a problem:
Their behavior which effects you is simply a sign that they are trying to get some need of their own met.
They have as much right to get their needs met as you do yours.
They often don't even know their behavior is causing you a problem. So, if you want to solve your problem you must tell them.*
*Excerpt from Dr. Thomas Gordon's F.E.T. Young Adult Resource Book

JAN 28, 2009

Conflict: An Opportunity for Your Relationship to Grow!

Conflict is a disagreement, a clash, a quarrel, a fight between two or more people--family members, friends, coworkers and the like. It's the moment of truth in a relationship; a test of its health; a crisis that can weaken or strengthen it.

Conflicts can push people away from each other or pull them closer together. Whether it occurs at home, at school, at work, or elsewhere, most people hate conflict and avoid it at all costs. They pretend nothing is wrong.

They do this because in their experience most conflicts end with someone winning and someone losing or both losing. People end up distant from each other. Sometimes they end up hating each other, or worse, physically hurting each other.

Few people accept that conflict is a natural part of life and not necessarily bad. Actually, it would be a rare relationship in which one person's needs did not conflict with the other's over a period of time. When any two people (or groups) coexist, conflict is bound to occur just because people are different, think differently and have needs and wants that sometimes don't match.

Conflicts can be about friends, spouses, coworkers, chores, money, etc.

Conflict in a family, with friends, with spouses, coworkers, etc., openly expressed and accepted as natural and inevitable, can be far healthier than most people think. It can be useful in identifying problems which need to be solved. And it can bring about constructive changes in relationships.

Probably the most important factor in any relationship is how conflicts get resolved, not how many conflicts occur. How they get resolved determines to a great extent whether a relationship will be healthy or unhealthy, friendly or unfriendly, intimate or cold, deep or shallow.

Last week, we examined compromise as one way of resolving a conflict, and the damages it can do to a relationship when one person wins and the other person loses. Next week, we will examine how to resolve conflicts so that our relationships can grow stronger.

[littlelara]

Your posts make me wonder what I'm going to be in for.
Missy is 4 and already complaining that I don't make nice lunches like the other kids get.
She's in KINDY, for heaven's sake, and I point blank refuse to add packets of chips to a kindy lunch.
It's not like she'd ever get them at home, or probably even knew they existed before now.

[deletedit]

PET sounds kinda useless. We don't have logical, solveable arguments. We have weird irrational ones and the worst arguments are because we don't understand WTF DD#1 is on about or where she is coming from. The whole thing boils down to the weirdest communication problem known to mankind.

We try and just drop it - 99% of the time she wants *less* than we are willing to offer and she won't compromise and take *more*, which is a source of arguments on its own - but sometimes the stuff she does is just so bizarre we push to know why. Which ends in an argument ...

Like right now, where she is looking for a water bottle, I just told her where the water bottles are, and she is refusing to use the ones that we have used in the past because ... they're used. She won't accept that they are the only drink bottles, they are perfectly clean, and she NEEDS a drink bottle. An argument that is impossible to win from either side. Her solution? She is going to go thirsty. Whatever, not worth continuing THIS argument.

No real surprise that most of the anti-conflict information on the internet is useless. The other kid is at least rational - right now she's having a meltdown because she can't come on big sister's bike trip. Much easier to understand.

The best arguments wtih DD#1 are about money. As in I want to pay her to do a small job, she wants money, but doesn't want to do the job. And she chose her own jobs and volunteered to do them - and used to do them anyway before I paid her for them! She solves these arguments without us by getting other people (including other children) to buy her stuff instead of earning her own money because her horrible mother refuses to give her money for stuff, and this has been going on for YEARS. Its not setting her up for a good work ethic or giving any value to money at all, which peeves me something severe.

[JBM]

wow look at all these reponses.

thanks so much guys.
thanks BB i'll have a look at that book.

i went to a seminar about raising boys
Steve Biddulph. the book is called "raising boys"
it was very interesting.

he said a teenage boy will fight with a stop sign !!!!!!

we got reports from school today and it said DS1 was quiet and always polite and helpfull ??????????????????
what !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i must have got the wrong report????????????????

the argueing continues
although he is eating his lunch more, we discobered he liked spreadable tuna and so thats what i've been getting most of the time.

have tried more bargaining rather than demanding, it's a little easier

i am giving rewards for good behaviour and all th boys are saving up for a big reward atm so this is helping a little.

two steps forward then one back, slow progress.

keep up the good work mums and dads and hopefully our kids will turn out o.k

chat soon

[nina21]

OMG did my DS come and live with you for a while because it is like reading a typical day in my house. My DD15 is a lovely child that has given me next to no grief whilst hitting teenagerhood. My DS is an angry surly nasty little creature that at times is the most beautiful loving wonderful child, but is the former most of the time. Nothing is his fault, we are all just picking on him and are against him arrrrrrrggg I love him dearly but at times want to lock him in a box and poke him with a stick lol PS I would never do that by the way!!!!
I think all we can do is hang on for the ride and hope that one day the sun will shine again.....good luck ladies and gents just know you are not alone somewhere out there someone else is battling a preteen just like yours. Well it makes me feel better to know that it is not just my son lol xxxx

[KimB]

We are still having the arguments and now it has turned violent. DS1 now throws everything, hits his brother and tonight has hit DF but said he didn't mean it. Now DF and DS have a problem anyway as they have nothing in common. DS is very active and DF is a computer nerd. I am not sure what to do now. Do I make him live with his dad and stepmum?? Any one have any ideas on what to do cause we have run out of tactics

[Inertia]

Honestly wish I had a better idea, but I am at a loss on what to do with my two. I feel like an ogre because I am almost always 'on their case' iykwim. But I am not going to let up just because of that. I find yelling at a 1yo to F*** off is completely reprehensible. She is also flinging her around and tossing her on the lounge and it makes my blood boil. I won't have my child acting so damned immoral, let alone risking the health of their little sister!

Wish I could send them to military school or something because both teenagers are rapidly leeching all the joy out of my house with their attitudes. They refuse to accept any responsibility in it either. Angel went feral at my DH one morning for waking her up at 10:30am to go for a drive to QLD that she knew all about the night before. Only we were evil cruel vicious people who were only doing it because we hate her. "Whatever".. the answer to every 'well this is the part where YOU bear responsibility too'.

And she wants us to treat her like a 'grown up'. No dear, we are going to continue to treat you like a teenager, because that is EXACTLY what you are, and EXACTLY how you are acting.

Sorry.. /vent.

Just.. Wish I had an answer.

[JBM]

honey aspen: military school sounds so inviting atm. lol
DS is now 12 and things just get worse everyday. we just had 5 days away without any kids and he started almost strait away !!
actually he just pushed his younger brother into the middle brother because he didn't say please when he asked DS1 to get off his bed. ?????? he makes me so so angry !!!!!
but i am finding that making him go without things has the best results atm. he missed out on an icecream yesterday arvo and was much better behaved so i let him have a spa last night which is a real treat for them to have one alone .

i sometimes don't know what to do with him. he is so aggro all the time, hormones ?, and he is about to start highschool and the fun will really start then.

i wish i had the answers

i know it'll be hard but i'm not expecting any miracles.

good luck to you other guys. you'll need it.