Channel 7's 'Sunday Night' - To Snip or Not to Snip?

[lauren22]

Thankyou AnnaT that was so very informative.
I felt guilty for a second thinking this isnt normal anymore :|
its funny to think men a few decades ago were strange for not being circumsised but in the nest gen it will be weird to be circumsised.

[diva det]

lauren
smickers answered most of the questions
they gave him a chordal epi whilst he was under so he awoke in no pain at all
he was crying a little when he awoke as he was hungry and a boobie feed fixed that and he went to sleep
he awoke 30 mins later smiling and wanting to stand up and chat to everyone
his penis is covered with vaseline soaked gauze at the moment, so there is no stitches.
Every nappy change we just chuck some more vasline on to stop it sticking to the nappy

it was actaully hard to find someone to do this procedure. My OB ended up doing it so we had to do it the way that he does it and that is after they are 3 months old and under GA. This suited me as I did not want him to have this procedure without pain relief etc. and in a hospital setting.

HTH and feel free to ask any other questions

[lauren22]

oh my apologies i didnt see his post
thankyou as well
my my im lucky to have all these lovley people on BB answering all these questions

[Phteven]

Lauren, funnily enough circumcision is becoming more normal than it was 10 or 20 years ago. There has been a significant increase in circumcision over the last few years. There are a number of governments that are currently reviewing their recomendations in regards to circumcision because although we all know that a condom is safer, let's face it, lots of horny couples will just go for it condom or no condom.
My cousin (2nd cousin to be precise) is a geriatric nurse and she is the most ardent pro-circ advocate I know. Funnily enough until she started working with old men she didn't care.

[Freya]

Your welcome Lauren.

Honestly who are any of us to define whats "normal"? I certainly wont throw stones about whats normal because I am sure I go against the norm on a few hot topics/lifestyle choices and Im pretty sure all of us here do in some way. Its upsetting to think that parents who want to make an informed choice might be being bullied into making a choice they feel is socially right and not personally right.

Something that gives me a giggle is hearing alot of anti-circ'ers state "Its just a peice of skin, why get rid of it?" when the same statement can be used to 'justify' circumcision. If its just a 'peice of skin' then it really isnt an issue whether its there or not.

[Schmickers]

...but did you have to pay for it, The doc that did my adult partners did babies aswell so if we had our son's done we would have gone to his private practice rather than ask the hospital to do it..

There is a medicare rebate available for the anaesthetist, I believe, and there may be a rebate available for the circumcision itself, but if the procedure is being done for cosmetic or religious reasons, there will most likely be an out of pocket expense as well.

[mako]

Lauren I just want to let you know that we had to use betadine after each nappy change to help prevent infection after the proceedure. My DS was done when he was 5 weeks old in a private hospital with anasthetic. He was only away from us for 15 mins or so and when he came back to us he was awake and hungry which a BF quickly fixed No regrets here. Atleast he won't remember the pain of it unlike my nephew who was done at 6 years of age and DOES remember the pain.

[~Jo~]

Tired old debate...sigh...tired old sensationalist garbage on tv...i choose not to circumcise my daughters or my son.

Jo

[lauren22]

circumsise your daughter?
never heard of it.

[Bathsheba]

I believe that this piece of skin is there for a reason... so to date my sons are not cut. However my 5yo has a mild case of phimosis (tightening of the foreskin) so he periodically has it checked by a paed. We apply cortisone which helps to loosen it. If he needs to be cut for medical reasons then so be it. It won't mean that I will have my other son cut so that they are the same... I personally don't understand that.... but each to their own. One thing that confuses me is the remembrance of pain thing. I don't see why it is an issue. I remember the pain of having surgery to have my appendix out... and the burns I received as a child when an aerosol can exploded in a nearby fire: molten metal hit my hand... it ran down the inside of my palm and when i tried to wipe it off with my other hand my little finger also got burnt... my mother put my hands under cold water then ripped off the metal... it hurt. I remember it. But it doesn't bother me because I guess I acknowledge that it was an accident. Like the appendectomy... I had to have it done or else I would have died... so be it. No mental scars. So, I figure if my son (the one with phimosis) ever has to be cut I would hope that he would understand the pain in that light IYKWIM? I hope I don't upset anyone by giving this analogy. I know nobody likes to see their children in pain but sometimes it's just a fact of life. So basically, I am prepared to circumcise my son if and when he needs it... and hopefully the pain relief he will receive at the time will be adequate.

[Glamourcide]

So, as I said earlier, I don't have boys, but I do know that if I were to have a son, I would choose not to circumcise based on *potential* health benefits such as those presented on tonight's segment. Schmickers pretty much summed up my beliefs on the subject - that there are easier, I suppose I would say 'better' ways of preventing STD's - don't shag around and when you do, wear a condom. You're still going to get HIV whether you have a foreskin or not, if you're not practicing safe sex, kwim?

I also personally just don't buy into the 'looking like dad' notion - it just doesn't make any sense to me. No two sets of genitals are identical, and from my POV, most grown men have pubic hair whereas their little sons don't, so obviously Frankie Jnr's bits are going to look vastly different to Frankie Snr's even before the concept of foreskins are brought into the picture, kwim? My DD doesn't seem to be perturbed at all by the fact that mummy has a fairly decent-sized set of breasts and she doesn't, or that I have pubic hair and she doesn't... I just don't know why a parent would be concerned about little Timmy 'looking different down there' than his dad?
My father was 'snipped' as was the 'norm' 50 years ago, but insisted that my brother (who's 20) be 'left intact' and as far as I know, there has never been an issue about what each others' bits look like - a doodle's a doodle's a doodle, right?

I think for me personally, I would not 'mess with nature', so to speak, unless there was an existing medical condition (as in Bathsheba's son's case where there is an actual problem already that could make circumcision a necessity), rather than just the potential for a medical problem down the track (FWIW I have heard of those women with a family history of breast cancer undergoing mastectomies BEFORE being diagnosed and I personally can see why they're doing it, but would never do it myself), kwim?

Of course I respect the individual opinions and reasons of others when it comes to parenting choices, and circumcision is just another one of those choices we make as parents, doing what we think is best for our little ones based on our own history, beliefs, and research. I hope nobody takes my opinions as a judgement or an attack on their choices, I just wanted to put my thoughts out there seeing as I opened this big ol' can of worms

I am curious as to the religious/cultural aspect of circumcision - I know Judaism is the most 'famous' for having their boys 'get the snip', are there any other religions out there that encourage it? And, if I'm not out of line asking this, why? I have wondered a few times about what role circumcision plays in a religious setting, what the reasons for it are, kwim?

[butterfly_warrior]

I believe that for the Jews, circumcision is what set them apart as God's nation. I also believe that, along with a lot of the other levitical laws, there were health benefits to this as well.

Sam's not circumcised... he arrived early so we'd never actually had the conversation about whether we wanted to or not. At 5 months old I suspect we've probably left it too late. I think I would have like to have had Sam circumcised, but wouldn't even begin to know where to go in order to have it done now.

BW

[visitor1]

OK well i missed the show.....i agree its a debate that will always come up. No one is right, no one is wrong. Its all a personal choice.

I *was* very adamant if i ever had a son he would be circumsised....that was until i met my DH and i couldnt get a word in...and he was never going to back down on the whole snipping debate.

Of course we now have a son....and he is not cut. My DH always said his son would never be snipped cos he wasnt......that was until i was talking MIL last year about it when she asked if we were going to get DS circumsised and i said no cos DH wants him to be the same (and told her about our debate).

She giggled and said DH said he wasnt cut? I said yup....and she said well he is. LOL

DH honestly thought he wasnt....and i was none the wiser....i just assumed that some 'uncut' penises looked the same as cut ones (id never seen an uncut before)......he was mortified and then started calling his mum a wee wee chopper.

So he is now proud we are not wee wee chopping parents....LOL

[paradise lost]

I strongly feel that circumcision on cosmetic grounds (that is without immediate and real medical necessity) should be the choice of the owner of the penis, not the parents, wife or government. Thus i would not circumcise any of my boys (or girls - and before anyone says the comparison is invalid, there are several cultures which only remove the clitoral hood which is directly comparable and i still would never do it - it's illegal where i live anyway) though i would support their decision if they wanted it done as adults.

I don't even brush my child's HAIR without her consent (even when she was tiny, if she struggled or cried i stopped), i certainly wouldn't go cutting their genitals without it unless they were very ill indeed. Ultimately every parent needs to look at their own situation and the sort of parent THEY want to be and work from that basis. I personally am too aware of my own fallability to volunteer to make any irreversible decisions regarding my children's bodies at this stage.

Bx

[Floweryfields]

My opinion...

The human body is made for a purpose. The urethra and vagina has labia to protect it from foreign bodies and infection. We have eyelids to prevent infections. Nose and ear hairs might seem unsightly but they're there for a reason!!! The foreskin protects the penis and urethra. PROTECTS!

Hmm, so it reduces some cancers? HEY! Lets chop our breasts off to reduce breast cancer? Quick, chop my head off, I don't want brain cancer... !

Actually there are a number of woman who have removed their breasts so that they won't get breast cancer

[Freya]

Paradise Lost - unfortunately it isnt that simple to get it done as an adult. It is extremely difficult and painful. So much so that even my big strong husband who would prefer to be done will not even consider it, so he keeps dealing with foreskin issues. Even a Dr told him they prefer to only do it in extreme cases where it affects penile function because its so traumatising for adult men. I chose to help my sons avoid that - and I believe Im a loving caring parent for that even if it doesnt sit with the majority view of circumcision.

LilMunchkins - I have heard so many men (and their partners) say "Oh Im/he isnt/is circumcised" only to find out they are actually the opposite! Just goes to show how non-psychologically harming it is considering some men like your Dh dont even KNOW they are done.

Im finding it hard to believe Im not being judged. Some of the comments being thrown around are borderline offensive to me and seem to imply (and correct me if Im wrong?) that I would be a less than stellar parent for circumcising. I think thats why these posts end up going down the plughole - you cant say you dont judge others decisions in one breathe, but then make comments pertaining to child abuse/forcing children to do things they dont want too/I wouldnt do my daughters so why do my sons et al in the next and expect someone like me to believe Im not being judged

[Pretty Butterfly]

I strongly feel that circumcision on cosmetic grounds (that is without immediate and real medical necessity) should be the choice of the owner of the penis, not the parents, wife or government. Thus i would not circumcise any of my boys (or girls - and before anyone says the comparison is invalid, there are several cultures which only remove the clitoral hood which is directly comparable and i still would never do it - it's illegal where i live anyway) though i would support their decision if they wanted it done as adults.

I don't even brush my child's HAIR without her consent (even when she was tiny, if she struggled or cried i stopped), i certainly wouldn't go cutting their genitals without it unless they were very ill indeed. Ultimately every parent needs to look at their own situation and the sort of parent THEY want to be and work from that basis. I personally am too aware of my own fallability to volunteer to make any irreversible decisions regarding my children's bodies at this stage.

Bx

That is exactly how I feel too. Well written.

My first husband wanted our son done. I asked why, and he said that he was, they should be the same. I asked him was he going to be sleeping with the same girls as his son, so that there penis's would be compared?

I then showed him a video of the procedure being done, and he caved instantly.

Being circumsised is still very much in the minority, but is is going up in areas. It is extremly hard to get it done up here, so it is rare to find a cirumcised boy in the last 15 years...

It is up to the individual to choose a medical procedure in my mind. I wouldn't get a tatoo on my baby, or cut off any other skin for appearance sake, and the medical argument is extremely weak in my eyes. Definatly not strong enough to warrent irreversable surgery for my sons.


There was one study done though, on men who went in to have the snip. In most cases, the sex was better with a foreskin. They concluded that having it removed, and therefore the head of the penis being handled, and rubbed on clothing constantly, de-sensitised the penis head. Whilst the "protected" penis head kept more sensitivity...

If any of my boys make the choice to have it removed, then thats fine. I'm pretty sure big boys can get pain relief too. In my eyes, their body, their choice.

[Willow]

We're not judging your decison, although it isn't one that we agree with

I never actually said one way or the other what we decided for our son. My point was that this is an old, tired debate and as Anna said, neither side presented any information last night that hasn't been presented before. Most of the time it's sensationalised garbage from both sides.

And no offence Schmickers, but your post didn't contain anything that I haven't heard before either (although I obviously appreciate the time you took to post it for those who may not be as informed and are looking for information!)

I just find it frustrating that every time the media decides to present a story on circumcision, vaccination, controlled crying etc etc it ends up as a thread here and more often than not, it deteriorates really, really quickly.

If you've made your decision and you're happy with it either way, why do we feel the need to discuss it/justify it over and over again