to circumsize or not to circumsize?

[hannanat]

Look who's talking, sexy, lol

Your a gorgeous human being inside and out, hun. Your av doesn't do your heart justice - even though it's very hot, lol.

[Sair]

Before I read this post I was pro and now after reading it I am still pro but for different reasons. At first I wanted it done for the fact Noah will look like daddy and because I don't want to teach a 10yo to clean his willy because that is when the foreskin can be pulled back. I was starting to think maybe I wouldnt get it done because of most of the arguments against are quite valid and I was seeing the sense in them. Then I was seeing the tally go up on later in life circs due to infection, I would rather put my boy through very little pain as soon after birth rather than have a 9 yo boy go through weeks of pain and being able to remember it when he is older. My stand-in OB told me it can't be done until after 6 months but I want it done right after birth asap so I now have the job of trying to find somewhere that does it within 6 weeks in Victoria arggg

[Jodie259]

My stand-in OB told me it can't be done until after 6 months but I want it done right after birth asap so I now have the job of trying to find somewhere that does it within 6 weeks in Victoria arggg

That's unusual that a doc would wait 6+ months.
Due to Jewish tradition, boys are done on the 8th day of birth.

I would just ask around.... maybe ask your friends who have had their sons done. They should be able to refer someone. I'm sure it is done within weeks of birth in a hospital or doctors rooms.

I even had a Jewish doctor willing to come to our house to do it, but then we were able to get an actual Rabbi.

[hannanat]

Urinary Tract Infections (UTIs)

This is a major selling point of circumcision advocates today, but the main reason babies get urinary tract infections (usually caused when intestinal bacteria from their mother colonise the inner surface of the foreskin and then spread up the urethra) is not because of the foreskin. The most important cause is when new-born babies are taken away from their mothers in modern hospitals before they have a chance to receive their mother's antibodies, and thus natural resistance, to the maternal bacteria. The best solution is simply to make sure that a newborn baby stays with his mother and starts to breast feed ASAP; mother's milk will supply the necessary antibodies and thus protect the urinary tract. (There is nothing wrong with intestinal bacteria on the inner foreskin surface; in fact, they probably keep out harmful bacteria.)

While BF certainly does reduce the incidence of UTI's, it's nowhere near as effective as circumcision.

Infections of the urinary tract (UTI) are regarded as being COMMON in the pediatric population [192]. The highest prevalence and greatest severity of UTIs in boys is prior to 6 months of age [316, 392], decreasing after infancy [408]. The younger the infant, the more likely and severe will be the UTI and the greater the risk of sepsis and death [314]. A preliminary study in Sweden has shown that early breastfeeding might also lower UTI [219], but, whilst worthwhile for many reasons, is less effective, and cannot be advocated as a replacement for circumcision. Research showing an association of UTI with lack of circumcision is extensive and the link is now unequivocal. Most of the evidence has emerged over the past 20 years or so.

A large study in Canada of equal numbers of neonatally circumcised and uncircumcised boys saw rates of UTI and hospital admissions for UTI that were 4-fold higher in the uncircumcised [356]. In Australia, a relatively small study in Sydney involving boys under 5 years of age (mean 6 months) found that 6% of uncircumcised boys got a UTI, compared with 1% of circumcised [78]. A US study of 1025 febrile infants aged less than 2 months found the cause was UTI in 21.3% in uncircumcised boys, 2.3% in circumcised, and 5% in girls [409]. Odds ratio of UTI associated with being uncircumcised was 10.4 (bias-corrected 95% CI: 4.7-31.4).

There are many, many studies that prove that circumcision is very beneficial. For some examples of the studies there is a site called circinfo . net

[hannanat]

Jodie, I think that could be if they are going to have a general anaesthetic.

[hannanat]

Caro, my 'sweeping statements that aren't necessarily correct' are based on scientific evidence. Circumcision is effective in preventing UTI's. More uncircumcised babies get UTI's than circumcised. It's a well documented fact whether you agree with it or not. I never claimed that circumcised babies don't get UTI's - I said it 's more effective than BF, of which I'm an advocate. Did you actually read the report or just my comments on it?

Until you have scientific proof that refutes my post, can you please refrain from attacking them. I don't make sweeping statements. You don't have to agree with my opinions, but please don't insult them.

[Jodie259]

Jodie, I think that could be if they are going to have a general anaesthetic.

Aaahhh yes,.... you would be right there Natalie.

As many mums of circ'd boys have announced - the babies do not appear to be too distressed with either a local or no anaesthetic.

[ShootingStar]

Sarah, Jesse was done at 6 weeks.. i think that is the cut of to do it with a local, after that you have to wait and get it done with a general (thats what the OB who did it policy was). Just ask your GP, they usually have a list of specialists and should be able to give you some contact numbers.

I too would rather it done early than later. I accidently cut Jesse's finger with nail clippers in the past and trust me theyll show you when theyre in pain. He never showed any pain throughout apart from the local needle. Do whatever you feel is best.

[Missy]

Hi there

I have a son Callum who is almost 1 and we had him done not to look like daddy but I know to many friends that are having problems with the forskin and might have to get them done anyway. Callum was 2 days old and he had a local to numb it and he didnt feel athing. Its just easier to have them done then not to. As long as you get a good doc to do it and at a very young age is best. I think you should have them done before you leave the hospital. But anyway thats just my thoughts.

[hannanat]

I would just like to make clear for posters that my edited post above was for a grammatical error.

I am not saying Caro that your comment

But its okay for people to write things then edit them after they have already upset me?

was directed to me, but just wanted it known publicly that I didn't do that.

[hannanat]

**comes in waving white flag**

I am probably being a little defensive regarding my parenting choices. When I read back I think the tone of my posts are a little harsh.

Caro, I will agree to disagree with you.

[Missy]

You shouldnt take anything to heart as everyone is going to disagree and have different thoughts about this. I had my son done and am glad but of cause some ppl dont feel the same and that is ok too. To cirs or not is up to the mums and dads. All I can say it if it is done properly and with a good doc you can save your little ones from having pain. I wouldnt have had it done if my doc/ob didnt give him a local. He felf no pain at all. Im sure without it babies do feel pain but there so new that they wouldnt know where the pain was coming from.

I think its ok for boys not to be done if parents dont want that and its fine for them to be done. I wouldnt get upset about other ppls coments.

[ShootingStar]

Caro, you really need not take things to heart. I know being pregnant is an emotional time, ive been there myself, but you seem to think that everyone is against you on everything and that is not the case at all. And that as soon as someone says something different to your view that theyre lashing out or having a dig at you. Like you, everyone is entitled to their opinions and people who have experienced these things know first hand what is dealt. Sure there are studies and facts and whatever anyone wants to find on the internet, but a first hand experience is just as good if not better knowledge of a subject if you ask me. It doesnt mean what you post is wrong its just that someone has experienced something different to the author of your link. Unfortunately, babies arent born with manuals.. even the internet cant tell you everything about them, it may help alot but as a parent yourself you'd know you have to pick things up as you go and make the decisions yourself. Id love to look up and see what Jesse is whinging about now.. i think its his teeth though

But please dont take anything that is written on here heart, especially my post as theres no sarcasim or hatred or anger to it. We're all just one big happy family

Now go make youreself a cuppa

[Missy]

Im saying when you get them done not save them pain if you dont.

Just relax hun!!!!

[Sair]

I think my doctor said after 6 months because there isn't anyone who does it without a general unless I travel to Melbourne maybe which I need to do anyway because my little boy has club foot so that specialist is in Melbs. I would much rather a local than take the risk of a general anyday. I guess I will be needing to do a bit of asking around. The only other parents of a boy I know are waiting for the 6 month point for the general but I might get some answers out of the midwives on Friday. Most doctors are anti from what I am gathering, maybe midwives are less so?

[ShootingStar]

Yeh give the midwives a go but i found it the other way around when i was asking while i was pregnant. The midwives didnt seem to want a bar of it but we went to our local GP (as youll need a referral anyways) and he pulled out his book and gave us 2 names in the area and was totally fine about it. I do know in my area, they wont book you in unforunately until the baby is born, i guess being incase its not actually a boy and you forget to cancel your appointment.

[beckles]

Hello out there, just thought i would put in 2 cents worth having older sons. None of my boys are circed. For our family it is against our cultural beliefs. My boys have progressed from around 2 to retracting their own foreskins (just with normal play and pulling), we then taught them it was important to clean under their foreskins, and now as older kids it is just a part of their hygiene practices. When i do swimming with the school and help our boys classmates change etc it is very very rare to see a circumcised penis. so just from this exposure over the last 6 years at school i would suspect circumsion is on the decline (not a researched fact though guys, sorry too lazy! ). My DH is circ and my boys actually feel sorry for him they are very attached to their foreskins :biggrin: . For our family it would go against all my philosophies on gentle parenting to remove their foreskin, i believe for us it is unnecessary and i would not want to put them through an unnecessary procedure. We have been fortunate that my boys have had no probs with their foreskins (except that they could stretch them to unbelievable lengths) and when they discuss it, as they did notice den was circed they were really grateful we didn't get them done.

Being a paediatric nurse i have seen alot of circs done and i have to say that all the babies i saw reacted by crying and sometimes were in a state of shock.

Some research i have read suggested that the jewish religion circed on the 8th day was because the baby's clotting factors settled from the fetal period after day 7 and they bled less, i can't actually remember where i read this but my grandmother was jewish and so i remember people discussing this.

For us i am opposed to circumcision but for your families follow your hearts, as long as parents make informed choices then go for it

beckles

[Janie]

Interesting point Neverplan......

Def. ask your ob (anyone who's looking for someone....). I have a friend who wants to get her bub circed if it's a boy, she asked our Ob and he said he could organise someone (I think to do it in hossy?). Apparently he didn't seem that impressed, and discussed the pros and cons with her, but when he realised her mind was made up he said he would find a Dr who would do it for her.

Not contributing to the debate, just putting out info for whoever wants it